ApplePay will be a mess the first few years!

AliMacs

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 8, 2014
496
810
So I went with a friend to subway today and this subway is a very high traffic subway mind you.

I ask her to use her Softcard to pay for the meal and when asking the front person to ring it up using mobile payment, they had a deer in headlight stare back. Even though the pay pass logo and the ISIS/SOFTCARD purple logo is clearly present on the customer card machine.

Subway allowed 26,000 of their franchise to support soft card mobile payments since october 1st. The employee said the manager was out of town and never showed them how to use it.

I will tell you NFC mobile payments has been available and in use for a couple of years now and yet something so simple like subway can't even recognize the mobile payment process.

ApplePay isn't gonna make a difference until everyone gets its but not for a few years!
 

myscrnnm

macrumors 65816
Sep 16, 2014
1,408
874
Seattle, WA
Apple Pay will be very hot among iPhone users, and that in turn will force businesses to get savvy with training their employees on how to accept NFC payments. I don't think it will be without stumbles along the way, but with how closely Apple has worked with the banks, credit card companies, and retailers, they've definitely thought this through.
 

scaredpoet

macrumors 604
Apr 6, 2007
6,627
342
I think you overexaggerate and might even have complicated the process more than it needs to have been.

I've been using NFC through my credit card for a couple years now, at the supermarket, at Walgreens and at convenience stores. I've never had to tell the cashier I want to use the NFC payment option. I just do it, and it works. Sometimes the casheir even wonders how I did it because they didn't know their POS could do that. But they didn't HAVE to know. It just worked.

Based on the demo, the same should be the case for ApplePay. As for whatever your friend was using, it *should've* been just as easy. If she had to be telling the cashier, then something is wrong with how it's set up.

Even at the worst case, it's not going to to take years to work out. Even the most incompetent cashier will have short-drawered themselves out of a job well before not figuring out NFC becomes an issue.
 

wxman2003

Suspended
Apr 12, 2011
2,580
294
I do think NFC payments will flop.
I kinda agree. With the chip and pin credit and debit cards replacing the current cards in 2015, most people will not bother with ApplePay. By this time next year, according to Master Card and Visa, there will not be any magnetic strip cards out there, at least with their logo on them. The hardest part will be convincing people that it's ok to scan their CC onto their phone and getting them to believe it's safe. They would rather use NFC with their CC in hand, than hoping their phone is secure.
 
Last edited:

heisenberg123

macrumors 603
Oct 31, 2010
6,497
9
Hamilton, Ontario
I think you overexaggerate and might even have complicated the process more than it needs to have been.

I've been using NFC through my credit card for a couple years now, at the supermarket, at Walgreens and at convenience stores. I've never had to tell the cashier I want to use the NFC payment option. I just do it, and it works. Sometimes the casheir even wonders how I did it because they didn't know their POS could do that. But they didn't HAVE to know. It just worked.

Based on the demo, the same should be the case for ApplePay. As for whatever your friend was using, it *should've* been just as easy. If she had to be telling the cashier, then something is wrong with how it's set up.

Even at the worst case, it's not going to to take years to work out. Even the most incompetent cashier will have short-drawered themselves out of a job well before not figuring out NFC becomes an issue.
This
I never say NfC i say Visa and instead of inserting my chip i tap and walk away
 

12vElectronics

macrumors 68040
Jul 19, 2013
3,927
1,222
California
Also, I know we like to think the whole world is using Apple, but you wouldn't believe how many people have Android and Windows phones. In fact, I'm in retail and easily 7/10 of my customers have Androids.
 

Supermallet

macrumors 65816
Sep 19, 2014
1,307
656
I kinda agree. With the chip and pin credit and debit cards replacing the current cards in 2015, most people will not bother with ApplePay. By this time next year, according to Master Card and Visa, there will not be any magnetic strip cards out there, at least with their logo on them. The hardest part will be convincing people that it's ok to scan their CC onto their phone and getting them to believe it's safe. They would rather use NFC with their CC in hand, than hoping their phone is secure.
Chip and pin is less secure than Apple Pay (unless they're using new protocols versus the systems in Europe), so it would be a shame if Apple Pay didn't catch on.
 

sviato

macrumors 68020
Oct 27, 2010
2,282
45
HR 9038 A
This
I never say NfC i say Visa and instead of inserting my chip i tap and walk away
This is too advanced for the USA, they're still swiping and signing :p

Unfortunately in the case of NFC/Apple Pay, the big Canadian banks are going to resist it as long as they can.
 

erzhik

macrumors 6502
Dec 2, 2010
486
394
I kinda agree. With the chip and pin credit and debit cards replacing the current cards in 2015, most people will not bother with ApplePay. By this time next year, according to Master Card and Visa, there will not be any magnetic strip cards out there, at least with their logo on them. The hardest part will be convincing people that it's ok to scan their CC onto their phone and getting them to believe it's safe. They would rather use NFC with their CC in hand, than hoping their phone is secure.
Unless they want to force every retailer to replace their readers, magnetic strips are not going anywhere for at least another 10 years.
 

kilcher

macrumors 65816
Jul 3, 2011
1,262
316
I do think NFC payments will flop.
I don't think they'll flop but I also don't agree with those who say just because Apple is involved it's suddenly going to be widely accepted and/or used. Just look at Passbook, with the possible exception of boarding passes and Starbucks very few people use it.

And like Passbook, if it is not a smoothe exeperience from the get go people will try it once and not try it again. I don't know how many times I'm going to put up with the "deer in headlights" from cashiers before I just start whipping out my debit card again.
 

caesarp

macrumors 6502a
Sep 30, 2012
967
388
Unless they want to force every retailer to replace their readers, magnetic strips are not going anywhere for at least another 10 years.
Wrong. Retailers are being "forced" to get EMV compatible readers (which can use NFC) due to the strong incentive of the liability shift that takes place as of October 2015.

"This liability shift means that those issuers and merchants using non-EMV compliant devices that choose to accept transactions made with EMV-compliant cards assume liability for any and all transactions that are found to be fraudulent. MasterCard defines the liability shift this way: The party, either the issuer or merchant, who does not support EMV, assumes liability for counterfeit card transactions. Understand that by issuer, the card companies do not mean themselves; the term refers instead to banks, credit unions, and any other financial institution issuing credit or debit cards". - See more at: http://www.paymentsleader.com/will-retailers-be-ready-for-emv-by-oct-2015/#sthash.A4zulQYK.dpuf

Also:

http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/bulletin-us-participation-liability-shift-080911.pdf
 

Ramio

macrumors 6502a
Sep 13, 2011
919
2
Houston, TeXas
What I don't like about Apple pay is the fact that I have to have my phone to use it. What if my phone is dead and there is no charger closeby?!. I can see leaving my wallet in the car just in case.
 

myscrnnm

macrumors 65816
Sep 16, 2014
1,408
874
Seattle, WA
I don't think they'll flop but I also don't agree with those who say just because Apple is involved it's suddenly going to be widely accepted and/or used. Just look at Passbook, with the possible exception of boarding passes and Starbucks very few people use it.
I'm always quite surprised when I'm the only person at the gate using PassBook for a boarding pass. It looks a lot nicer than the ones you print at home, and saves paper.

I think Apple Pay will be the same way; it will be easy enough for a number of people to use, but others may not switch because using a credit card has become second nature.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,287
15,123
So I went with a friend to subway today and this subway is a very high traffic subway mind you.

I ask her to use her Softcard to pay for the meal and when asking the front person to ring it up using mobile payment, they had a deer in headlight stare back. Even though the pay pass logo and the ISIS/SOFTCARD purple logo is clearly present on the customer card machine.

Subway allowed 26,000 of their franchise to support soft card mobile payments since october 1st. The employee said the manager was out of town and never showed them how to use it.

I will tell you NFC mobile payments has been available and in use for a couple of years now and yet something so simple like subway can't even recognize the mobile payment process.

ApplePay isn't gonna make a difference until everyone gets its but not for a few years!
The problem was you made a point of throwing around jargon when you should have just put your device/card up to the scanner and been done with it.
 

unagimiyagi

macrumors 6502a
Jun 9, 2009
893
225
Another issue is the fact that you still have to bring your wallet with you because you simply won't know which places accept Apple pay and which do not.

Until you can be sure that all places accept it, you're going to keep carrying your wallet.


Sure if Apple Pay is accepted I might use it, but it's not going to be a determining factor in how I shop or whether I buy an iphone.


We all carry a phone around just in case we actually need to use voice minutes. Even if we don't use it 99% of the time, we still carry it around b/c you never know. Same with your wallet. It'll be a long, long, long time before Apple pay replaces your wallet. Knowing Apple they're not the type of people who care about widespread adoption.
 

poorcody

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2013
844
684
Unless they want to force every retailer to replace their readers, magnetic strips are not going anywhere for at least another 10 years.
That's exactly what "they"'re doing. Retailers have to upgrade their systems by October 2015 or all the fraud liability switches to the them.
 

caesarp

macrumors 6502a
Sep 30, 2012
967
388
What I don't like about Apple pay is the fact that I have to have my phone to use it. What if my phone is dead and there is no charger closeby?!. I can see leaving my wallet in the car just in case.
And right now you have to have. A physical credit card present to use it.
 

Cool Pup

macrumors 6502a
Jun 18, 2010
720
105
Dallas, TX
What's more secure than a fingerprint sensor with authorization to use the card? Anybody can use a credit card offline or online, but with Apple Pay you'll need a fingerprint to authorize the transaction. I think that's the future and clearly more safe once they get things ironed out. Because yes, it'll be a little messy the first year or two while things are still new.
 

McPc

macrumors 6502
Sep 30, 2012
351
17
CA
I'm looking forward to using Apple Pay. Wells Fargo has been heavily advertising it everywhere so it's encourafing to see a bank strongly behind it. I'll be using it at Whole Foods and Walgreens right out of the gate. It may take awhile for other vendors to jump aboard though but I have a gut feeling this will take off and get more support as time goes by.
 

wxman2003

Suspended
Apr 12, 2011
2,580
294
Chip and pin is less secure than Apple Pay (unless they're using new protocols versus the systems in Europe), so it would be a shame if Apple Pay didn't catch on.
I really hope ApplePay works out along with other forms of electronic transactions without having to take a CC out of my wallet. I am looking forward to the day I will not have to carry a wallet. The ability to have my driver's license, credit card, insurance card, SS card, Passport, etc, all on my iPhone would make my life easier. Sure, I would still want to be able to have these cards available if needed, but to not have to carry them 90% of the time would be great.
 

Supermallet

macrumors 65816
Sep 19, 2014
1,307
656
Another issue is the fact that you still have to bring your wallet with you because you simply won't know which places accept Apple pay and which do not.

Until you can be sure that all places accept it, you're going to keep carrying your wallet.
Even if Apple Pay became ubiquitous, I'd still recommend carrying one or two backup cards just in case. Maybe the NFC reader is down at the store, or maybe your phone dies or is even stolen (this, by the way, is why I refuse to use a wallet case, because then the snatch and grab thief would have gotten credit cards along with the phone). For those situations, having a card or two on hand will be a life saver.

I recommend a small front pocket wallet. I use a Saddleback one now, and it's great. Holds a few cards, has a window for my driver's license, and holds a bit of cash folded up in the middle. It's much thinner and smaller than a regular wallet.

I really hope ApplePay works out along with other forms of electronic transactions without having to take a CC out of my wallet. I am looking forward to the day I will not have to carry a wallet. The ability to have my driver's license, credit card, insurance card, SS card, Passport, etc, all on my iPhone would make my life easier. Sure, I would still want to be able to have these cards available if needed, but to not have to carry them 90% of the time would be great.
As I said above, I'd still carry around at least one or two backup cards and an ID just in case something happens to the phone.

One thing you can do is only carry around things like the Google Wallet card and/or American Express Serve, both of which are refillable prepaid cards with added bonuses/protections. That way, even if your cards get stolen, all that thief can use is the money you've pre-loaded (I usually keep $100 or less on each card), you can cancel them easily, and either Amex or Google will refund fraudulent purchases. And if your card number gets skimmed, again all they can use is the balance on each card, and you can easily cancel and get replacements without changing your card numbers everywhere you've got autopay. Much more secure than carrying around high limit cards and most especially your debit card. You can even pull money from ATMs with those cards, although there may be additional fees.

Of course, sometimes you want to use your real credit or debit cards, in which case you can bring those along when you know you want to use them.
 

AliMacs

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 8, 2014
496
810
This
I never say NfC i say Visa and instead of inserting my chip i tap and walk away
I never said NFC - I said Softcard - everyone who is anyone who owns an android device will know what I'm talking about (formerly known as ISIS) -

It's not rocket science, just tell them you are paying with Softcard then they push a button and you tap your device to the pay wave logo and voila. Hear a confirmation beep/vibration and you are done.

Subway is new to this but since oct 1, these 26000 stores all have the registers that can accept but yet they don't. It proves that no one cares or the fact mobile payments will take a long time to become successful. Google tried, Softcard is doing it now and yet you will see these fails. When apple pay is ready publicly, expect even worse.

Jamba juice seems like the only place that works nearly all the time. Rite-Aid is nonexistent.

----------

The problem was you made a point of throwing around jargon when you should have just put your device/card up to the scanner and been done with it.
lol, it's not jargon, they don't even know how to work the register period.
:rolleyes:
 

scaredpoet

macrumors 604
Apr 6, 2007
6,627
342
This is too advanced for the USA, they're still swiping and signing :p
I'm in the US and I'm just waving a card at a scanner. Hopefully in a few days it'll just be my phone instead of a card.

----------

It's not rocket science, just tell them you are paying with Softcard
You shouldn't even have to do this. I never do. All you have to say is "credit," and the POS should handle the rest.

Subway is new to this but since oct 1, these 26000 stores all have the registers that can accept but yet they don't. It proves that no one cares or the fact mobile payments will take a long time to become successful.
Okay, fine. ApplePay is a failure before it even launched.

/Thread


lol, it's not jargon, they don't even know how to work the register period.
:rolleyes:
Yeah, something tells me that you're a real joy to retail workers. :rolleyes:
 

slippery-pete

macrumors 68000
Jun 23, 2007
1,662
576
So I went with a friend to subway today and this subway is a very high traffic subway mind you.

I ask her to use her Softcard to pay for the meal and when asking the front person to ring it up using mobile payment, they had a deer in headlight stare back. Even though the pay pass logo and the ISIS/SOFTCARD purple logo is clearly present on the customer card machine.

Subway allowed 26,000 of their franchise to support soft card mobile payments since october 1st. The employee said the manager was out of town and never showed them how to use it.

I will tell you NFC mobile payments has been available and in use for a couple of years now and yet something so simple like subway can't even recognize the mobile payment process.

ApplePay isn't gonna make a difference until everyone gets its but not for a few years!
I read this post and felt like...


In all seriousness, just tap and go
 
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