Apple's 2024 M4 Mac Mini: What We Know

[b.la]

I’ve been looking at some of the new Mini PC's lately. Some are very powerful and absolutely challenge and beat the Mac Mini in every way, except… Mac…. But there is so much they can do to the Mac Mini to make it a complete game changer. Upgradable NVME.m2 storage would be the first thing. There is no excuse to not include a secondary storage slot.

What percentage of Mac mini customers do you think would actually utilise such a feature? Not many I’d say so there’s the excuse to not include it.

 

[b.la]

The way things are going, 16 should be the base model for all of the lineups. However, Apple seems to love people to move up lines faster. Ever notice how Mini with 8 gigs tend to show up shortly after in the refurbs?

The link you’re making between the amount of RAM and devices in the refurb site is an absolute stretch at best. Apple has a very generous returns policy where you can buy something, open it, use it and return it for a full refund within 14 days. If you bought a Mac mini, didn’t open it and returned it in an hour, Apple does not resell that as a new device, and it will like show up of the manufactured site. The reason the 8gb option is the first to show up is because it’s the base spec, more of these are sold and therefor returned. 8gb of ram is suitable for most people especially as there are so many other dedicated parts of the chips now for processing specific tasks. That’s why the new iPad Pro starts with 8gb.

 

[b.la]

They shouldn't have to pay - nobody wants Apple to up the base spec to 16GB and hike the price by $200 as a result, they're saying that it's 2024, technology has progressed, and its long past the point where 16GB of RAM should be standard without needing a price hike. Competing "premium" laptops with LPDDR5x memory are increasingly coming with 16GB as standard and/or lower priced upgrades, and now even Microsoft (who were one of the hold-outs for 8GB standard and Apple-esque upgrade pricing) are going to 16GB minimum for their latest ARM-based laptops.

The problem is what Apple currently wants people to pay if they want more RAM and storage - bumping a base $600 Mac Mini to 16/512 costs $400 adding 66% to the price. That's ridiculous - even fast LPDDR5x RAM and 4x NVMe Flash isn't that expensive.

So the competitive landscape you’re describing is not apples to apples, even back in the intel days Apple’s ram optimisation due to then designing the hardware and software outperformed competitors with the same amount of RAM.

The point about Microsoft adopting 16gb is true but, they are not prices comparatively to Apple’s line up.

Here in Australia:
MacBook Air, 8gb, 256 $1,799
MacBook Air m2, 16gb, 512 $2,199
MacBook Air m3, 16gb, 512 $2,399

Microsoft surface 16gb, 512 $2,199

So the latest generation Apple device is more expensive when compared spec to spec on paper, nothing new there but let’s see if the MS laptop actually performs as they’re claiming, history tells us the MacBook Air with M2 will still likely wipe the floor with it. Apple is giving consumers a choice to buy something with the spec they need and nothing more with price benefits, the competitors are not.

 

[DownUnderDan]

I don't see that happening, as many people (likely most of Apple customers that aren't tech-driven) will do fine with 8gb ram. And shouldn't have to pay more for 16gb ram they'll never need.

The good news is, if you need more ram, you can bump it up to whatever you need when placing your order.

The Surface coming with 16GB base RAM might have a positive impact. If Air is upgraded to 16GB to be more competive with Surface, that could create a trickle up effect on RAM for all Macs.

 

[DownUnderDan]

So the competitive landscape you’re describing is not apples to apples, even back in the intel days Apple’s ram optimisation due to then designing the hardware and software outperformed competitors with the same amount of RAM.

The point about Microsoft adopting 16gb is true but, they are not prices comparatively to Apple’s line up.

Here in Australia:
MacBook Air, 8gb, 256 $1,799
MacBook Air m2, 16gb, 512 $2,199
MacBook Air m3, 16gb, 512 $2,399

Microsoft surface 16gb, 512 $2,199

So the latest generation Apple device is more expensive when compared spec to spec on paper, nothing new there but let’s see if the MS laptop actually performs as they’re claiming, history tells us the MacBook Air with M2 will still likely wipe the floor with it. Apple is giving consumers a choice to buy something with the spec they need and nothing more with price benefits, the competitors are not.

I don't know who you are, but Tim would love you to be at his hardware engineering meetings. Just don't expect a Christmas card from the hardware team, who at this point, must be absolutely sick to death of seeing their work cost cut in the name of marketing spin and more profits.

 

[enb141]

This is getting offtopic, but Qualcomm just announced a $900 dev kit for their Windows on Arm chipset:

$899 mini PC puts Snapdragon X Elite into a mini desktop for developers

Well-specced box includes the best Snapdragon X Elite, 32GB RAM, 512GB SSD.

arstechnica.com

Full spec list at: https://www.qualcomm.com/content/da...pdragon-Dev-Kit-for-Windows-Product-Brief.pdf

Not that I'm suggesting anyone buy the dev kit, necessarily, and definitely not suggesting Windows-on-ARM with all its ad-laden, "telemetry"-sucking, keyboard-stroke-and-screenshot-recording privacy issues, but:

• They're working on debian support. There's an experimental install already for the chipset, mentioned in the official blog, but I can't tell if this is the target hardware
• As this is the dev kit, I expect there will be better/cheaper/possibly more expandable small form factor retail boxes later, since big manufacturers for the Windows PC space have already announced laptops with this chipset.

If people are interested, I'd suggest waiting to see actual workloads compared to any M-series Mini. Apple's unified memory model brings a lot to the table, but obviously can't be expanded with aftermarket memory. Notice that dev kit has 32GB ram.

This is the exactly Mac Mini I was looking for, 32 GB RAM, uses MVMe SSD so probably you could put you own.

A mac mini with 32 GB RAM and upgradable RAM is a device that will cost twice and they won't allow you to upgrade the SSD.

 

[mrr]

A Mac Mini M4 will no doubt be my next computer. Sooner the better.

 

[nathansz]

Spot on. 8gb will be fine for the majority of Apple customers - why should they pay for more that they'll never use?

yes apple will be happy to sell Macs with 8gb of storage!

 

[steve09090]

What percentage of Mac mini customers do you think would actually utilise such a feature? Not many I’d say so there’s the excuse to not include it.

Probably not a lot, but it is also a deal breaker for many.

I can think of two possible technical reasons: the need to pull out and reserve PCI lanes* for a socket that may not be used by a lot of buyers, and the extra heat an NVMe stick would generate, especially assuming the socket is put on the underside of the machine. PCIe Gen 5 support would be even more of a thermal issue. Seems like something they'd want to reserve for at least a "thick" Mini, aka Studio, with a better fan.

There's also the terrible marketing segmentation reason, of course: sadly, room for more internal storage is one of the few reasons to buy a Pro any more. And you'd still have to buy a PCIe card with the NVMe slots you needed.

*Do they even have a PCI controller in the M* chips, or would they have to add one? How is it handled in the 2023 Pros, which do have PCIe ports?

Both of which makes it a perfect upgrade for the Mac Studio. It would become a differentiator to the Mac Mini rather than segmentation. The Mac Studio doesn't make sense with the Mac Mini Pro around.

 

[cosmicc]

I don’t foresee needing to upgrade from the M1 16GB Mini for years to come for my workflow. I would like USB-C accessories though. Still using my original “AA” Magic Keyboard and Magic Mouse from the end of the Jobs era. I do welcome the accelerated refresh timeline now that AS is here. The Intel refreshes were just horrible with the Mini.

 

[smulji]

I don't see that happening, as many people (likely most of Apple customers that aren't tech-driven) will do fine with 8gb ram. And shouldn't have to pay more for 16gb ram they'll never need.

The good news is, if you need more ram, you can bump it up to whatever you need when placing your order.

With AI features becoming more important, 8GB base RAM won't cut it. Even the new Windows ARM laptops have 16GB bade RAM.

 

[artifex]

This is the exactly Mac Mini I was looking for, 32 GB RAM, uses MVMe SSD so probably you could put you own.

A mac mini with 32 GB RAM and upgradable RAM is a device that will cost twice and they won't allow you to upgrade the SSD.

I think it could be a great value for a machine doing work (especially, eventually, the NPU) or possibly being an HTPC or other file server if there's no huge encoding going on. I suspect the Adreno GPU is much worse for desktop gaming than Apple's GPU cores, especially without the unified memory model. So it wouldn't be my desktop gaming box. (My current one runs Pop!OS, which is based on Ubuntu and handles Steam fine, and Epic Store okayyy under Lutris, but also doesn't force me to use Snap versions of stuff like Firefox, like mainline Ubuntu would. Ubuntu also didn't like the flatpak for Lutris.)

Also, without a CUDA translation layer I doubt people will be running LLMs and other ML stuff on it without a lot more work porting, and if there's not direct access to all that memory they probably won't bother. But it's nice if you do have a use for it. And if you have to, you could always put/leave Windows on it, I guess 😉

 

[Chuckeee]

So will the M4 pro chip continue the trend from the M3 pro chip with more efficiency core than performance cores? While that make sense for laptops, it seem like a waste in a Mac mini desktop.

 

[citysnaps]

With AI features becoming more important, 8GB base RAM won't cut it. Even the new Windows ARM laptops have 16GB bade RAM.

No worries… if that’s important to you, simply choose more ram when placing your Mini order.

 

[phrehdd]

Spot on. 8gb will be fine for the majority of Apple customers - why should they pay for more that they'll never use?

People should purchase whatever the amount of ram they actually need. Though I recognize that would give many one less thing to be unhappy and complain about.

Sure, open up email, maybe messages, play some iTunes and then get to your 4th tab in Safari and your system crawls and stutters. 8 gigs of RAM should be more than enough but alas, no decent memory management and that means something has to give and lots of people have had that experience.

This all reminds me of M chip when it rolled out and several makes of monitors did not work properly and Apple ignored the problem for more than a year. In this case, it may be $$ as they count on people buying newer models more often.

 

[phrehdd]

The link you’re making between the amount of RAM and devices in the refurb site is an absolute stretch at best. Apple has a very generous returns policy where you can buy something, open it, use it and return it for a full refund within 14 days. If you bought a Mac mini, didn’t open it and returned it in an hour, Apple does not resell that as a new device, and it will like show up of the manufactured site. The reason the 8gb option is the first to show up is because it’s the base spec, more of these are sold and therefor returned. 8gb of ram is suitable for most people especially as there are so many other dedicated parts of the chips now for processing specific tasks. That’s why the new iPad Pro starts with 8gb.

I will disagree. The larger amount of 8 gig machines is due to them being a more frequent and rejected buy. Whether they open up and return or in a matter of days or realize they will have to trade in and get a more useful build. However, I remain with those that favour 16 gig minimum.

 

[citysnaps]

Sure, open up email, maybe messages, play some iTunes and then get to your 4th tab in Safari and your system crawls and stutters. 8 gigs of RAM should be more than enough but alas, no decent memory management and that means something has to give and lots of people have had that experience.

This all reminds me of M chip when it rolled out and several makes of monitors did not work properly and Apple ignored the problem for more than a year. In this case, it may be $$ as they count on people buying newer models more often.

And many people here have reported 8gb of ram works just fine with no issues.

The sky isn’t falling.

 

[enb141]

I think it could be a great value for a machine doing work (especially, eventually, the NPU) or possibly being an HTPC or other file server if there's no huge encoding going on. I suspect the Adreno GPU is much worse for desktop gaming than Apple's GPU cores, especially without the unified memory model. So it wouldn't be my desktop gaming box. (My current one runs Pop!OS, which is based on Ubuntu and handles Steam fine, and Epic Store okayyy under Lutris, but also doesn't force me to use Snap versions of stuff like Firefox, like mainline Ubuntu would. Ubuntu also didn't like the flatpak for Lutris.)

Also, without a CUDA translation layer I doubt people will be running LLMs and other ML stuff on it without a lot more work porting, and if there's not direct access to all that memory they probably won't bother. But it's nice if you do have a use for it. And if you have to, you could always put/leave Windows on it, I guess 😉

Most people that want a Mac Mini, want a small space, so obviously getting this machine is not for gaming, is mostly for non extensive tasks but with 32 GB RAM and upgradable SSD plus way cheaper than it's equivalent Mac Mini, this is a serious device to think about.

 

[enb141]

And many people here have reported 8gb of ram works just fine with no issues.

The sky isn’t falling.

Yeah, 8 GB is magic, my current laptop has 16 GB, which is not enough for my needs, I need at least 32 GB, my main PC has 64 GB.

But here 8GB is the equivalent of a PC with 32 GB RAM and 256 GB is the equivalent of 4 TB SSD on PC.

 

[madebybela]

I remember people were complaining about the form factor when the M1 dropped, saying that Apple should've made it smaller. Doesn't seem like such a good idea now that the chips are getting hotter lol They clearly knew this too, the design is just future-proof already.

Excited though, owned a 2018 one, got an M1, and this M4 (Pro) will likely be when I upgrade. Long live Mac mini 😎

 

[zapmymac]

I love my base m2 mini. Light user here, and I am pleasantly shocked that 8 GB of ram has worked out.

I get a spinning beach ball once in a while opening Apple apps, which is very annoying, but that's about the only gripe.

Wishlist: let me add my own SSD using the modular SSD's from the Mac Pro line. There is plenty of room and Apple already makes the modular SSDs.

 

[saberfi]

I hope the new Mac mini includes the Thunderbolt 5 port.

Got to prepare for 5K 120Hz goodness at some point.

 

[macduke]

I don't know much, but I do know that the M4 Pro Mac mini is probably going to be my kid's first real computer when I pickup a refurbished model around this time next year.

My daughter will be going into middle school autumn of 2025 and that's the age I got my first computer, but she will be sharing it with her little brother eventually. She's taking after me, really into photography and somewhat into design and is getting more interested in programming and newer things like AI. But she is running into limits on her older iPad with what she can do creatively and storage-wise. A newer one would help, but I'd rather set her up with Lightroom and get her a little 1TB SSD for her photo library. Give her a taste of how the professionals roll. She likes playing on my Mac sometimes, supervised. I think it will be good to teach them how to use real computers.

 

[svish]

Not expecting to see any major changes other than the new M4 chip. Wonder when Apple will release the new Magic Keyboard and Mouse with USB C

 

[flottenheimer]

Update the keyboards to usb-c *splat* *splat*

Yes, please ... and the trackpad.