Apple's A7 Processor Truly 'Desktop Class', iOS Apps Don't Take Full Advantage

[garylapointe]

Safari reloads frequent since iOS 7

Exactly. Far less frequent Safari page reloads (and, under iOS versions prior to 7.1, crashes);

I really think that Safari has seemed awful since iOS 7 in terms of page reloads. In older scenarios I occasionally (maybe even frequently) but since iOS 7 it seems like it want's to reload a page every time I look at in, even with 2 tabs open and jumping tab to tab (I've closed all other open apps). At this point I just expect it's going to need to reload every time I view the web page. I've noticed this far more on my iPad, but I do more casual browsing on my iPad than my phone, but I actually do think it's worse on the iPad.

I'm not sure what that problem is: it used to cache to the storage and now doesn't bother? or iOS system just eats up more RAM so it can't save a few pages?

Gary

 

[AppleScruff1]

I really think that Safari has seemed awful since iOS 7 in terms of page reloads. In older scenarios I occasionally (maybe even frequently) but since iOS 7 it seems like it want's to reload a page every time I look at in, even with 2 tabs open and jumping tab to tab (I've closed all other open apps). At this point I just expect it's going to need to reload every time I view the web page. I've noticed this far more on my iPad, but I do more casual browsing on my iPad than my phone, but I actually do think it's worse on the iPad.

I'm not sure what that problem is: it used to cache to the storage and now doesn't bother? or iOS system just eats up more RAM so it can't save a few pages?

Gary

This has been my experience too with the iPad Air and it happens with Chrome too, not just Safari. I usually have 3-5 tabs open and the reloading hasn't improved since the update to 7.1. I'm really thinking that Apple doesn't consider it a problem and that it the way it is designed to work at this point in time. It will be interesting to see what happens with the next iPad or iOS update. I'm betting on 2GB of RAM next time and maybe they will rework how memory is being managed.

 

[hlfway2anywhere]

OK, now I see what you mean.

Let me phrase my argument this way: "Apple fanboys tend to state Apple did the right and best thing when only delivering even the latest iDevices with 1GB of RAM".

Again, this argument is technically nonsense. Anyone knowing the battery life of competing 2GB RAM-equipped WP products (the Nokia 1020) know the additional power usage of having to constantly power on an additional 1GB of RAM is negligble and in no way result in vastly inferior battery life. (Again, I purposefully not list 2/3GB Android phones because their OS is far less battery-friendly than either iOS or WP and, consequently, don't represent a battery-wise ideal OS.)

And there isn't a space / volume constraint either - after all, for example the Nexus 7 2013, which has a considerably smaller volume than the Retina iPad Mini / Air, has managed to pack in 2GB of RAM. The volume argument ("2GB of RAM would take far more volume") is also very often cited by Apple fanboys - by the above-cited "gaussian blur" over at DPR as well.

All in all, this is why I consider the argument "1GB is the best compromise" fanboyish. Because it's simply not true, neither battery life- nor volume-wise.

I see that you've backpedaled slightly on your original comment but I do wonder...what did you want to get out of this debate, exactly? You're on a forum with over 880,000 members, each with their own individual perspective and you seem to expect someone to say "Gosh you're right, Apple sucks and we're just making excuses for Apple." --- Just a heads up, it's probably not going to happen.

 

[Menneisyys2]

The only thing the "fanboy" designation adds to the discussion is that it shows you're making emotional statements.

I think you're being trolled, and with succes. Have respect for your opponent, even in internet forum based discussions.

Again: I consider anyone an Apple fanboy that states 1GB is the sweet spot as of today. As has been proved by several 2/3GB non-iOS mobile devices released sometimes well (more than 6 months) before the release (Sept and Oct of 2013) of the current crop of iDevices, adding more RAM wouldn't have had much (if any) adverse effect on the battery life and the additional RAM could easily be incorporated in the current body of iDevices.

These two arguments (battery & volume) are the most widely stated ones by people blindly defending Apple / justifying their (in this case, VERY stupid and anti-consumer) decisions. I do think these people do deserve to be called fanboys. They defend and justify something no sane people would defend / justify.

 

[usarioclave]

I'm not sure what that problem is: it used to cache to the storage and now doesn't bother? or iOS system just eats up more RAM so it can't save a few pages?

It could be that everyone is now specifying no-cache for their web pages. You'd have to dig that out of mobile safari's developer mode to find out, though. For example, some of the NYT site is cached, some isn't. Are the uncached things enough to trigger a relayout of the CSS? Maybe, maybe not. It's up to the website builder to pay attention to that stuff, and who can tell how many pay attention?

 

[WilliamLondon]

iOS would definitely benefit from 2 GB of RAM.

And new (including some/most current) apps would definitely take advantage of that additional RAM, while at the same time in that one moment all older iOS devices would be rendered useless for anything current and new going forward, and significantly reduced in value on the second hand market (a market in which Apple products do exceptionally well, and one reason they continue to demand high prices when new).

Unfortunately, I think we're in for small increases in RAM, because Apple realises what would happen to all the older iOS devices. Both a sad thing and good thing (especially if you own older, even 1 generation older, devices).

 

[gotluck]

I think its hilarious that even Apple's old dual core A6 processor in the iPhone 5C from last year's model is on par with current top of the line" hexacore" Android phones like Galaxy S5.

The 64 bit A7 is in a whole 'nother league. Just goes to show how much more advanced iOS and their engineering team is combined with Apple's philosophy of precisely matching software with hardware. My guess is they have big plans for iOS and the A8 chip. Much bigger than just a phone.

Yes it is hilarious, but it is also unfortunate that due to apples sandbox we can't take full advantage of the chip. Just due to the nature of the OS, more kinds of tasks/features can be done on android.

I agree that he chip is amazing, I pick my bone on the OS. I think it's time for ios to mature a bit. Jailbreaking saves ios for me. Obviously drivers and efficiency are great, but there are so many limitations compared to OSX/ Android.

That and of course I wish my air had more ram

 

[Iconoclysm]

Wait! I thought 1GB is more than sufficient and there would be no point in having 2GB of RAM in any iDevice! (At least Apple fanboys state this...)

RAM is a balance of necessity and battery life - it is constantly sipping away at battery power. And since the onboard storage of the device is fast flash memory, it's not necessarily a deal breaker.

----------

And new (including some/most current) apps would definitely take advantage of that additional RAM, while at the same time in that one moment all older iOS devices would be rendered useless for anything current and new going forward, and significantly reduced in value on the second hand market (a market in which Apple products do exceptionally well, and one reason they continue to demand high prices when new).

Unfortunately, I think we're in for small increases in RAM, because Apple realises what would happen to all the older iOS devices. Both a sad thing and good thing (especially if you own older, even 1 generation older, devices).

Doubt that they'd go with small increases, cheaper for them to put identical RAM modules in there or to go with one big 2 GB module.

 

[gotluck]

RAM is a balance of necessity and battery life - it is constantly sipping away at battery power. And since the onboard storage of the device is fast flash memory, it's not necessarily a deal breaker.

If you're inferring ios uses a swap file, it doesn't.

 

[Menneisyys2]

RAM is a balance of necessity and battery life - it is constantly sipping away at battery power.

1. I know - this is what I've referred to in all my power consumption remarks above.

2. Nevertheless, I don't think adding another GB of RAM would have severely reduced the battery life. Again, see the example of the 2GB-equipped Nokia 1020. Does it have much worse battery life than an 1GB Nokia (say, the 92x series)? Of course not. We're talking some 3-5% of battery life degradation at most.

And since the onboard storage of the device is fast flash memory, it's not necessarily a deal breaker.

Flash storage can't be used as dynamic RAM, regrettably. Otherwise, there would be absolutely no crashes, app or Safari tab unloading because we would have Gbytes of (virtual) RAM. Which we obviously don't have - as opposed to your "flash storage equals to RAM" statement.

 

[brendu]

Wait! I thought 1GB is more than sufficient and there would be no point in having 2GB of RAM in any iDevice! (At least Apple fanboys state this...)

With the current crop of apps that is true. Maybe some day apps for iOS will push limits and need more ram.

 

[Menneisyys2]

Doubt that they'd go with small increases, cheaper for them to put identical RAM modules in there or to go with one big 2 GB module.

Yup, 2GB modules are readily available in exactly the same volume as the current 1GB module(s) in iDevices. And even if they weren't available, an additional chip wouldn't result in a major volume usage increase, if at all.

 

[SvP]

Again: I consider anyone an Apple fanboy that states 1GB is the sweet spot as of today. As has been proved by several 2/3GB non-iOS mobile devices released sometimes well (more than 6 months) before the release (Sept and Oct of 2013) of the current crop of iDevices, adding more RAM wouldn't have had much (if any) adverse effect on the battery life and the additional RAM could easily be incorporated in the current body of iDevices.



These two arguments (battery & volume) are the most widely stated ones by people blindly defending Apple / justifying their (in this case, VERY stupid and anti-consumer) decisions. I do think these people do deserve to be called fanboys. They defend and justify something no sane people would defend / justify.

Do as you wish; but i'm not listening. No respect means no discussion. It disqualifies you.

 

[Menneisyys2]

Do as you wish; but i'm not listening. No respect means no discussion. It disqualifies you.

It's people that blindly justify Apple's anti-consumer and ridiculous decisions (like only including 1GB of RAM in the latest crop of iDevices) disqualify themselves, not me.

 

[akm3]

There is no chance that Anandtech is punching us with an early april fools joke right?

 

[Menneisyys2]

With the current crop of apps that is true. Maybe some day apps for iOS will push limits and need more ram.

Not true. See Safari tab reloads, app reloads etc. The latter can take even half a minute (or even more) on even top (64-bit) hardware like the rMini with large and quality titles like XCOM: Enemy unknown.

 

[WilliamLondon]

Doubt that they'd go with small increases, cheaper for them to put identical RAM modules in there or to go with one big 2 GB module.

Poorly stated (by me), what I mean is that I doubt we'll see any big jumps from release to release, relative to the jumps in CPU performance release to release RAM will not keep up at the same rate.

At this point I would venture to say that the vast majority of people don't ever realise any RAM-related issues (Apple always caters to the masses), however, with the recent productivity apps (especially Office) being released on this platform the switch to using those apps will highlight for many the limitations of RAM and it'll be interesting to see how Apple handles it.

 

[Constable Odo]

A7 processor or not, nearly everyone is in agreement that Apple has zero innovation and Wall Street's valuation is based on that premise. The introduction of the iPhone 5s and iPad Air which both use the A7 processor did absolutely nothing to change anyone's opinion of the company and in fact Apple's stock dropped even lower after these products were announced.

Everyone is asking, "When's Apple going to start innovating? and saying things like, "Apple has lost its direction since Steve Jobs death." As far as Wall Street and the news media is concerned, lately, Apple has done nothing positive for itself or anyone else. I'm guessing that the next processor Apple comes out with, most likely the A8, will be seen by the tech industry as completely lacking in innovation. Apple must be considered as "innovating" wrong.

 

[GeneralChang]

2. Nevertheless, I don't think adding another GB of RAM would have severely reduced the battery life. Again, see the example of the 2GB-equipped Nokia 1020. Does it have much worse battery life than an 1GB Nokia (say, the 92x series)? Of course not. We're talking some 3-5% of battery life degradation at most.

I’m so not picking a side on this because I think the entire discussion is ridiculous, but I just have to ask. Have you designed a phone recently? You say you “don’t think” adding more RAM would have a significant impact on battery life, and you seem so sure of it I would assume you’re a highly proficient electrical engineer to make those claims. You don’t think that there are engineers at Apple who have thought the exact same thing? At some point sombody with their fingers all over the development of these phones made the exact opposite call from what you’re suggesting, and it probably didn’t have anything to do with mustache-twiriling devilishness.

My point is, nobody on here can back up these assumptions about RAM without puting in effort to basically disassemble a phone, add a gig of RAM, and then run it through a series of benchmark tests to determine whether it does adversly affect battery life or not. You don’t have any basis for comparison, none of you, so stop pretending you do.

Oh, and saying “it works for that one Nokia” is a terrible argument. Different OS, different battery, all different hardware. Do I really have to say it? Apples to apples, folks. Apples to apples.

 

[SvP]

It's people that blindly justify Apple's anti-consumer and ridiculous decisions (like only including 1GB of RAM in the latest crop of iDevices) disqualify themselves, not me.

Yes it is. You are being juvenile and condescending. You are calling them names because you don't agree with them. What's next; hitting?

 

[brendu]

Not true. See Safari tab reloads, app reloads etc. The latter can take even half a minute (or even more) on even top (64-bit) hardware like the rMini with large and quality titles like XCOM: Enemy unknown.

I believe the safari issue has more to do with buggy software. Big games I could see causing issues though. I am all about getting more ram in future iOS devices but most apps really don't require it.

 

[WilliamLondon]

Do as you wish; but i'm not listening. No respect means no discussion. It disqualifies you.

Calling others fanboy is also against the rules, but more than that it's a tactic used by people to bolster opinions of themselves by declaring themselves superior to "others who disagree."

 

[Menneisyys2]

And new (including some/most current) apps would definitely take advantage of that additional RAM, while at the same time in that one moment all older iOS devices would be rendered useless for anything current and new going forward, and significantly reduced in value on the second hand market (a market in which Apple products do exceptionally well, and one reason they continue to demand high prices when new).

Unfortunately, I think we're in for small increases in RAM, because Apple realises what would happen to all the older iOS devices. Both a sad thing and good thing (especially if you own older, even 1 generation older, devices).

Disagreed. Decent programmers do try to support as many iDevices as possible. It's actually very easy to do by simply scaling down some RAM-hungry features. And I do speak for experience. For example, in one of my AppStore apps, I have a block deciding how many images should be pre-fetched for my FourSquare venue list:

    if (mem_free < 10000000)
    {
        memoryDependent_SHOULD_IMAGES_BE_LOADED = NO;
    }
    else if (mem_free < 20000000)
    {
        memoryDependentMaxNumberOfVenues = 5;
        if (MAX_PHOTOS_COUNT_IN_DETAIL_VIEW>1) memoryDependent_PHOTOS_COUNT_IN_DETAIL_VIEW = 1;
    }
    else if (mem_free < 40000000)
    {
        memoryDependentMaxNumberOfVenues = 10;
        if (MAX_PHOTOS_COUNT_IN_DETAIL_VIEW>2) memoryDependent_PHOTOS_COUNT_IN_DETAIL_VIEW = 2;
    }
    else if (mem_free < 60000000)
        memoryDependentMaxNumberOfVenues = 15;

That is, if I have less than 10M RAM, I don't at all display FSQ venue pics; if it's between 10M and 20M, I only load five venues and only one image for each venue and so on - with gradually more free RAM, I increase the number of venues / images gradually. This way, I can make sure I display as many images and venues as possible without any crashes. (On an iPhone 3G, which I still support in all my apps, with around 47-50MBytes of free RAM as of 4.2.1, even preloading a few images would result in a crash.)

It's similarly VERY easy to, after profiling an app to find out what kinds of allocations take a lot of RAM, to come up with runtime decisions like this.

That is, adding another 1GB in the current crop of devices wouldn't have resulted in what you talked about. Most devs do try to make their apps run on everything - for example, for competitive reasons. On the contrary: it would have immensely helped the current problems (tab reloads, minimzed app shutdowns etc.)

 

[Kariya]

A7 processor or not, nearly everyone is in agreement that Apple has zero innovation and Wall Street's valuation is based on that premise. The introduction of the iPhone 5s and iPad Air which both use the A7 processor did absolutely nothing to change anyone's opinion of the company and in fact Apple's stock dropped even lower after these products were announced.

Everyone is asking, "When's Apple going to start innovating? and saying things like, "Apple has lost its direction since Steve Jobs death." As far as Wall Street and the news media is concerned, lately, Apple has done nothing positive for itself or anyone else. I'm guessing that the next processor Apple comes out with, most likely the A8, will be seen by the tech industry as completely lacking in innovation. Apple must be considered as "innovating" wrong.

Thats not an Apple problem its a perception/Wall Street/Analyst problem.

They're projecting ridiculous expectations that aren't levelled on any other company on the planet. And when those silly expectations aren't met they put the blame on the company. Stupidity of the highest order. I still find it mind-boggling that people like these are being paid good money and are considered 'experts'.

I mean some genius has outright demanded that Apple release iWatch and do it within an exact timeframe or else...

Incredulous to say the least.

 

[Menneisyys2]

I believe the safari issue has more to do with buggy software.

UIWebView (the component used for rendering HTML) is very memory-hungry. Loading a page like the one at http://winmobiletech.com/a/1.html (one of my standard memory usage benchmark pages) results in some 60-90 Mbytes of RAM to be allocated. Pages like nin.com result in 200-300 Mbytes to be allocated (both figures measured on Retina iPads). This is why it's mostly Safari that the disadvantages of only having 1GB of RAM can easily be spotted in.

Big games I could see causing issues though. I am all about getting more ram in future iOS devices but most apps really don't require it.

I agree most apps don't require more than 570Mbytes of RAM (the amount of RAM that, in most cases, safely be allocated for an app under iOS7 and 1GB devices). Few apps would be better with more RAM. For example, XCOM: Enemy unknown (prolly the best game on iOS as it's a direct port of a "true" console / desktop hit) uses lower-res textures to decrease the memory usage.

However,

- the OS itself would really benefit from more RAM (no need to shut down minimized apps)
- any app that uses the truly memory-hungry UIWebView to load arbitrary (user-selected) Web pages would also benefit a lot.