Apple's Activation Lock Website Played Key Role in Hack, Perhaps Explaining its Removal

[C DM]

It's not crazy. Extra serials would mean one can write a serial to the device without impacting on other devices.

And apple do not have an aversion towards people writing serials to apple devices. That does not constitute hacking either. Apple themselves created an app called Blank Board Serializer precisely for this purpose.

Alas it is only available for mac and hasn't been ported over to other devices.

Maybe they should port it over. That would solve a lot of problems.

But to suggest apple don't want people to write serials to their devices is wrong. Otherwise why would they have created Blank Board Serializer?

So this is a supported Apple tool available to the end-user? And for the purposes of changing a serial number, or perhaps of setting one where one doesn't exist?

 

[tywebb13]

Blank board serializer is to assign the serial number to a replacement logic board in your Mac. These tools exist for windows machines too. They are not for 'consumer' use but for repair technicians to reassign the product serial when replacing faulty parts like the logic board. They are not for 'changing' the device serial, they are to assign the existing one to replacement parts.

Yeah. I know what it was originally intended for. But if they port it over to other devices like iphones, etc, then it would be useful in case you bought a phone which was locked - and not have to resort to the complicated hardware solution provided by rewa.

 

[C DM]

Yeah. I know what it was originally intended for. But if they port it over to other devices like iphones, etc, then it would be useful in case you bought a phone which was locked - and not have to resort to the complicated hardware solution provided by rewa.

The proper solution is to properly use iCloud Activation Lock, rather than finding simple or complex ways of bypassing it.

 

[tywebb13]

So this is a supported Apple tool available to the end-user? And for the purposes of changing a serial number, or perhaps of setting one where one doesn't exist?

You can use it to write a serial to a mac which has had the motherboard replaced. But unfortunately it is only available for mac, not other apple devices.

 

[C DM]

You can use it to write a serial to a mac which has had the motherboard replaced. But unfortunately it is only available for mac, not other apple devices.

So basically not meant for end-users and not to change a serial number, but basically something for those who service Apple computers to aid them when replacing parts that need to be initialized/setup properly.

 

[tywebb13]

So basically not meant for end-users and not to change a serial number, but basically something for those who service Apple computers to aid them when replacing parts that need to be initialized/setup properly.

Mostly yes ...... BUT there have been many cases of people who had their motherboards replaced but the technician forgot to write the serial number to the new board. Hence people are able to do it themselves with this software. It's pretty easy to do - and much easier than rewa's hardware solution.

 

[C DM]

Mostly yes ...... BUT there have been many cases of people who had their motherboards replaced but the technician forgot to write the serial number to the new board. Hence people are able to do it themselves with this software. It's pretty easy to do - and much easier than rewa's hardware solution.

Which isn't related in any way to Apple making something available to end users to bypass their own security measures.

 

[tywebb13]

Which isn't related in any way to Apple making something available to end users to bypass their own security measures.

If proof of purchase can be provided proving it wasn't stolen then writing a new serial shouldn't be a problem.

So porting Blank Board Serializer over to other devices should be possible and then the fact that https://www.icloud.com/activationlock/ has been shut down wouldn't be such a problem.

Other features could be added to Blank Board Serializer like generating new serials which do not coincide with other devices - and also the ability to delete an existing serial.

This would be much better than what we have at the moment.

 

[C DM]

If proof of purchase can be provided proving it wasn't stolen then writing a new serial shouldn't be a problem.

So porting Blank Board Serializer over to other devices should be possible and then the fact that https://www.icloud.com/activationlock/ has been shut down wouldn't be such a problem.

Other features could be added to Blank Board Serializer like generating new serials which do not coincide with other devices - and also the ability to delete an existing serial.

This would be much better than what we have at the moment.

If proof of purchase can be provided then Apple will take care of it. That's already how it works.

 

[Marshall73]

Yeah. I know what it was originally intended for. But if they port it over to other devices like iphones, etc, then it would be useful in case you bought a phone which was locked - and not have to resort to the complicated hardware solution provided by rewa.

No, they should lock the serial down further so that changing the serial to anything other than the assigned one bricks the device so companies like Rewa don't enable and profit from supplying kit to help the thieves and fences resell stolen devices.

 

[susisasha]

It seems like a lot of work, but if you work for organized crime, you pay kids to do it for a few bucks on a large scale and make a lot of profit.

The black market for iDevices is insane. Working at Apple, we saw many resellers every day. Same guy would come in every day with 2 phones that don't turn on, are registered to someone on the other side of the country, and they don't care about the data on the device. Usually they tell some ridiculous story (in very broken english) about how it's their sister's phone and she can't be here, and it got hot and doesn't turn on, yada yada yada...They come in looking to get them swapped for new phones. Somewhere down the line I am convinced that organized crime is involved.

My theory:

Phones are stolen by petty thieves on the street and out of cars...The thieves sell the phones cheap to people involved in organized crime. The phones are activation locked of course, so they can't just be resold. So they tamper with them and either switch the serial number (shown in this video) or make them unable to power on (usually by damaging certain logic board components.) Bring them to Apple, get them swapped for good new phones, and then re-sell...or better yet, illegally smuggle them back into China without paying taxes and sell them for massive profit. basically iPhone laundering

my i phone was stolen after a car accident. Never heard from it again , find my I phone was on . But on eBay there are all the stolen i phones for sale, in lock mode. ridiculous. Apple should do something about that.

 

[dilbert99]

Sarcasm, *ç%&% do you speak it?

was talking about the size and font colour, not his words...

 

[zaaach48]

my i phone was stolen after a car accident. Never heard from it again , find my I phone was on . But on eBay there are all the stolen i phones for sale, in lock mode. ridiculous. Apple should do something about that.

i personally don't doubt that many of those phones are stolen. but can it be proven? why is it Apple's job? they provide the tools to lock the phone down and find it when lost.

Many Honda cars get stolen, is that really Honda's problem or law enforcement?

 

[bennyf]

i personally don't doubt that many of those phones are stolen. but can it be proven? why is it Apple's job? they provide the tools to lock the phone down and find it when lost.

Many Honda cars get stolen, is that really Honda's problem or law enforcement?

By the logic of many posters here, yes, Honda should prevent cars from starting unless you bring your proof of purchase to a dealer.

Wish people would realize that they are undermining their own property rights by pushing for these measures. It's like the laws requiring you to carry ID at all times or be presumed a criminal.

 

[C DM]

By the logic of many posters here, yes, Honda should prevent cars from starting unless you bring your proof of purchase to a dealer.

Wish people would realize that they are undermining their own property rights by pushing for these measures. It's like the laws requiring you to carry ID at all times or be presumed a criminal.

How does that relate to something being stolen and the theives trying to use it?

 

[Fenevadka]

I recently ran into serious trouble with two-step authentication (yep, I didn't realize I still had it instead of two-factor and I'm still paying the price for it as I cannot gain access to my account, despite two weeks of work with Apple because I lost the recovery key) when I got an email saying that my phone was no longer a trusted device because it had been erased (it hadn't). I wonder if this was somehow related. If a criminal tried to restore a device with my serial number, could it have triggered Apple into thinking I erased my phone?

 

[bwillwall]

The ability to unlock a device remotely is 100% necessary when you use activation lock...

 

[vooke]

Wouldn't a simple solution relatively simple for Apple to implement be to require that a user type in the serial number, the IMEI, and the CAPTCHA text? Each serial number only has one corresponding IMEI, so you couldn't just guess your way both through as the article explained people did with the serial number.

But for an activation locked phone, all you have is IMEI
[doublepost=1486023231][/doublepost]

The whole locking process flies in the face of hundreds of years of established legal precedent of possession being tantamount to ownership unless the possession happened under suspicious circumstances. I'm all for holding down the incentive to someone stealing my phone, but I don't like upending centuries of legal precedent to get there.

The people who get hurt by this most often are NOT the thieves, but the uninformed purchasers who didn't know enough to check some obscure website before handing over their money.

The activation lock mechanism is well-intentioned, but really doesn't even come close to solving the problem. A problem that hasn't been solved since before humans built their first tools -- theft.

And, for everyone screaming "unethical" and "mean" at Rewa -- tell me why in the hell I shouldn't be able to edit the data on the hard drive in a device I bought and own? If that breaks someone else's device, that's a bug in the design and Apple's problem not mine.

I'm just aghast at how upside down ethics has come that the people that give us tools to tinker with our devices are the evil ones and the ones keep us from even reading the contents of our property are the good guys.

Wholly agreed.
Most Americans may be unaware of what a vibrant market exists for pre-owned idevices, but I can assure you it is here. I buy and sell them all the times.

That site is the last check I do before buying a phone, or even accepting a phone for repair. Now there is no way of confirming activation lock. Don't tell me to go to settings because there are various ways of removing the Apple ID,switching off FMI on the device alone

 

[ahipoke]

But for an activation locked phone, all you have is IMEI
[doublepost=1486023231][/doublepost]

Wholly agreed.
Most Americans may be unaware of what a vibrant market exists for pre-owned idevices, but I can assure you it is here. I buy and sell them all the times.

That site is the last check I do before buying a phone, or even accepting a phone for repair. Now there is no way of confirming activation lock. Don't tell me to go to settings because there are various ways of removing the Apple ID,switching off FMI on the device alone

You can still check if FMI is on by starting a dummy mail in repair. Put in the serial number or IMEI and you'll see this if FMI is active:

Sorry, but we can't create a repair while Find My iPhone is active. You'll need to turn off Find My iPhone and retry this serial number. If you need an accessory replacement, please change your topic to one related to accessories.

 

[bennyf]

How does that relate to something being stolen and the theives trying to use it?

How does it relate? It's a very simple 1-to-1 relationship: without a proof of purchase the presumption of ownership shifts and you're presumed to be the thief.

 

[C DM]

How does it relate? It's a very simple 1-to-1 relationship: without a proof of purchase the presumption of ownership shifts and you're presumed to be the thief.

Not really the relationship there. Without proof of ownership something that is locked doesn't just get randomly unlocked for someone.

 

[bennyf]

Not really the relationship there. Without proof of ownership something that is locked doesn't just get randomly unlocked for someone.

Not following... are you taking the metaphor further to like locksmiths opening your car when you lock your keys inside?

Look, these metaphors are being stretched too thin. Let me bring this back to reality.

Whether it's the tools cited above or their successors, thieves will always have the tools to get around the lock. Or they would just keep trying to sell the device until they found an uninformed purchaser. It's the innocent and uninformed that pay the price.

I've had a brand new, just released iPhone stolen from my desk drawer. I hated the feeling and can sympathize with others on the deep violation that such theft represents. I couldn't afford to replace it, didn't have insurance and was stuck with a 2 year contract. That was pre-activation lock days, but do thieves these days check for an activation lock before swiping a device?

Maybe it's some consolation to think that your activation lock is making the thief's life more complicated, but that doesn't bring your phone back.

It may have the effect of raising the resale value of used phones. But even that is unclear, since it also makes the transaction itself much more costly since the device could turn out to be worthless when you get it. I'm never going to buy a use iPhone off eBay or anywhere except in-person now (even if the activation check website were brought back). So, for me, the activation lock raises the cost to me to own an iPhone and I get no measurable value in return.

I'd love to see an actual economist's analysis of the measures.

 

[C DM]

Not following... are you taking the metaphor further to like locksmiths opening your car when you lock your keys inside?

Look, these metaphors are being stretched too thin. Let me bring this back to reality.

Whether it's the tools cited above or their successors, thieves will always have the tools to get around the lock. Or they would just keep trying to sell the device until they found an uninformed purchaser. It's the innocent and uninformed that pay the price.

I've had a brand new, just released iPhone stolen from my desk drawer. I hated the feeling and can sympathize with others on the deep violation that such theft represents. I couldn't afford to replace it, didn't have insurance and was stuck with a 2 year contract. That was pre-activation lock days, but do thieves these days check for an activation lock before swiping a device?

Maybe it's some consolation to think that your activation lock is making the thief's life more complicated, but that doesn't bring your phone back.

It may have the effect of raising the resale value of used phones. But even that is unclear, since it also makes the transaction itself much more costly since the device could turn out to be worthless when you get it. I'm never going to buy a use iPhone off eBay or anywhere except in-person now (even if the activation check website were brought back). So, for me, the activation lock raises the cost to me to own an iPhone and I get no measurable value in return.

I'd love to see an actual economist's analysis of the measures.

No metaphors involved (at least not from my side), just basic logic in play.

 

[fft1]

Activation lock isn't an effective deterrent against theft. Go to eBay, plug in iPhone 7 iCloud and check sold listings, they sell for $300-$500 per unit at auction. Because Apple is tight on parts, these newer models will always fetch a premium for the parts alone. Theft and robbery still occurred prior to everyone owning expensive smart phones, hell crime like this was still lucrative long before we all had cell phones..

Apple needs to sell new iPhones and the second hand market continues to be a significant barrier to that. Device 'churn' isn't good for business and a customer who buys used from a third party marketplace is lost revenue for Apple. As far as Apple envisions this, there is no legitimate reason a consumer shouldn't be buying a new or refurbished phone from them or their partners, ideally on contract renewing every 2 years. If you can afford a late model but used iPhone outright, you can afford a new iPhone on contract..

Activation lock for it's stated purpose doesn't make sense, it does however make buying in the used market less convenient while increasing risk to buyers. If it moves just 1% of used buyers into the new market, that's 2.8 million additional new iPhones sold per year.

 

[C DM]

Activation lock isn't an effective deterrent against theft. Go to eBay, plug in iPhone 7 iCloud and check sold listings, they sell for $300-$500 per unit at auction. Because Apple is tight on parts, these newer models will always fetch a premium for the parts alone. Theft and robbery still occurred prior to everyone owning expensive smart phones, hell crime like this was still lucrative long before we all had cell phones..

Apple needs to sell new iPhones and the second hand market continues to be a significant barrier to that. Device 'churn' isn't good for business and a customer who buys used from a third party marketplace is lost revenue for Apple. As far as Apple envisions this, there is no legitimate reason a consumer shouldn't be buying a new or refurbished phone from them or their partners, ideally on contract renewing every 2 years. If you can afford a late model but used iPhone outright, you can afford a new iPhone on contract..

Activation lock for it's stated purpose doesn't make sense, it does however make buying in the used market less convenient while increasing risk to buyers. If it moves just 1% of used buyers into the new market, that's 2.8 million additional new iPhones sold per year.

Conspiracy theories are fun and all, but reality is reality: https://techcrunch.com/2015/02/11/a...s-to-big-drops-in-smartphone-theft-worldwide/