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Ha, and don't forget about "really great." That one seems to be thrown around with regularity as well.


Apple should really be embarrassed by the way their execs talk.

Like Timmy's quote a few days ago.

"Watching the Mac Pro come together in Austin yesterday,thanks to a team loaded with American manufacturing expertise"

They really do come off sounding like immature children.
 
Ha, and don't forget about "really great." That one seems to be thrown around with regularity as well.

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That any firm would get complacent with an Apple account really boggles my mind. I'm curious to know what actually happened behind the scenes that prompted this shift. Although it does seem like in many aspects Apple is trying to reign in control as much as possible. Chip design and manufacturing, sapphire glass production, now marketing.

Steve took marketing almost exclusively for himself... That side of things was his baby and he was genius and merciless with the agency. Steve was a genius in the "know it when i see it" department. There's nobody filling that direction...that's one area where Tim is not Steve and has a much different way he wants to present things.
 
According to who? The Jobs sycophants who post on sites like MacRumors?

Sure, and ad execs who worked with Jobs like Lee Clow, Steve Jobs himself as quoted in the official bio. All the tales lead to Jobs being very involved in ad strategy, sometimes to the chagrin of the ad people. Like everything Jobs did, when he was right he was right but when he was wrong he was hard to convince that he was to Apple's detriment.
 
Well it often times is worthwhile to make sure the product you purchase will be somewhat successful financially so its supported for many years and third parties contribute to it. Example is HD-DVD which was not necessarily better but wasnt bad and its now extinct. Marketing plays a big part in how financially successful a product is.

...I hope you're not mocking me because I did buy a HD-DVD! :)

It's a good point - it is in my interests that the products I buy are supported. That said, it's been a long time since I've been worried about Apple's existence, or the success of any of its products. I used to buy Mac products just to support Apple and local Apple outlets, but not any more.

The awkward thing is - it's easy to benchmark a product: price, speed, reliability, capacity, durability, thinness, lightness, battery life etc. But benchmarking marketing is more difficult - it tends to be "if the product sold well, the marketing was good, if it didn't the marketing was bad". Which is obviously an oversimplification since there are many factors involved in any purchase other than marketing.

Maybe it's the developer in me talking, but I'd much rather sell a great product with average marketing than an average product with great marketing. The latter might well sell more, but I'd feel a lot happier going home in the evenings with the former.
 
Apple has not lost it's "cool" or "innovative" factor because of their marketing team. It is because of their product releases, both hardware and software.

I was at dinner with 15 people the other night and the next iPhone came up. A friend of mine pulled out his Galaxy S5, submerged it in a glass of water, pulled it out and it was completely fine. He then said, "yeah, do that with your iPhone." And most of the software coming in iOS 8 are "catchup" features.

I have no plans to switch, I think iOS8 and Yosemite are amazing releases, but several years late. I love Apple through and through, but there is no doubt they have been a little off the ball.

I think things are changing finally, and there definitely was a transition after Forstall left. A needed one, but it took time. This fall will be exciting.
 
My gut feeling is this likely to end badly for Apple if Apple is bringing actually advertising in house. It immediately removes the "outside" view of the company by creating a bubble. Hopefully they will at least separate from any Apple campus.
You nailed it. A different point of view is mandatory. Trying to please your boss and trying to satisfy your paying customer may not always go in the same direction
 
If "Your Verse" and "You're More Powerful than You Think" is their answer, they have some work to do. Neither campaign leaves me wanting to buy an iOS device if I even realize that it was a commercial for an iOS device in the first place amid all of the distracting things I'll never do in my life.
I'm waiting for them to rename it "You're more Pitiful, then you Think."
 
Sure, and ad execs who worked with Jobs like Lee Clow, Steve Jobs himself as quoted in the official bio. All the tales lead to Jobs being very involved in ad strategy, sometimes to the chagrin of the ad people. Like everything Jobs did, when he was right he was right but when he was wrong he was hard to convince that he was to Apple's detriment.

So all these people are saying Apple design and marketing has become crap since Jobs died?
 
It's pretty sad. I was hoping they would in-house maps but instead they do this.

Funny, many took the face value of everything written about Apple from the pundits.

Judging from the many reports Apple is run by clueless people and the people who has a clue how to run Apple don't work for Apple..../s
 
I wonder if any of the 1000 researched the meaning of the song she's singing in the commercial.
 
Marketing **is** innovation. I'm a techie myself but I don't underestimate how important marketing is. Most popular products aren't necessarily the best, they are the ones marketed best.
Exactly.

Who remembers the OS/2 Fiesta Bowl?
 
So, instead of innovating, we will just market some more...

I wonder how many engineers they could have hired for the same cost of 1000 marketing professionals.

Throwing more engineers in won't do much better, either. I'd like to think Apple are capable of handling multiple tasks at the same time and know what they're doing, so I wouldn't worry.
 
Do ad agencies "get" Apple?

I think this is a really good question, no matter what the answer is.

I remember working with some marketing guys many years ago, when IBM's OS/2 operating system was the popular thing with the "geek crowd" as the OS they hoped would unseat Microsoft Windows. The marketers were chomping at the bit to get an ad deal with IBM, but it was clear they really didn't understand why people liked OS/2. I mean, they could grasp it in the most basic, simplistic sense ... but not on a level deep enough to make an ad that would impress an I.T. person using Windows and wondering why he/she would consider a switch to OS/2.

With Apple, I think the consumer-oriented nature and trendiness of the brand gave advertising people a lot more to work with, even if they didn't have a very good understanding of the products on a technical level.

But IMO, Apple has been around a while now and the push that's needed is into corporate America, where the products have found their way in the "back door" already. (If you allow people to "bring their own device" to work and that device is Apple branded, you have to deal with it in the workplace.) I don't think any of the marketing I've seen really addresses benefits a Mac or iOS device brings to the Enterprise. So in that sense, if nothing else -- Apple could stand to go a different direction with it.


I don't think the ad agencies "get" Apple anymore. Maybe they never really did. A lot of the ideas that seem to have come out of outside ad guys have been pretty awful lately. It seems the only Apple ads to work well are the ones you find out later Apple took over creative control to make.

Then you've got those emails that came out in court, between Apple execs and their agency. Shows the ad guys have no freaking clue.

So good, Apple will do it all in-house. They probably should've been doing that all along.

And for everyone worried about Apple hiring marketing guys instead of engineers, it's not like Apple is strapped for cash, and it's not like they weren't hiring outside marketing people anyway. They're just shifting it where they have more control, where they can fire people that don't work out, and in the long run it'll probably be cheaper. Would you rather pay an ad company looking to make a profit, and doesn't understand your business, or would you rather pay your own guys internally, who you can train in your culture, and keep the profit yourself?
 
I was at dinner with 15 people the other night and the next iPhone came up. A friend of mine pulled out his Galaxy S5, submerged it in a glass of water, pulled it out and it was completely fine. He then said, "yeah, do that with your iPhone." And most of the software coming in iOS 8 are "catchup" features.

In october tell to the same dude to start writing an email on the phone and then continue writing it on his pc. Then ask him to answer the phone on the same pc, while the phone is charging, while happily dropping files and contents among your devices without issues. Those features are much more useful than submerging a phone in water... or wine!
 
Apple should really be embarrassed by the way their execs talk.

Like Timmy's quote a few days ago.

"Watching the Mac Pro come together in Austin yesterday,thanks to a team loaded with American manufacturing expertise"

They really do come off sounding like immature children.

Yes. At least we have not heard Timmy say " It's Magical" in a while. ;)
 
oh no...


Lost its creative edge.....


Its not all bad, even if Apple can't create anymore, the up shot it, is we customers always buy them (well, for a short term anyway)


And that makes Apple happy.
 
"Some ad executives feeling that Apple has lost its creative energy while others worry about the cost of living in Cupertino."

Oh yeah because working in advertising and living in New York City, London, or San Francisco is less expensive than Cupertino.

I would gladly leave New York City and move to Cupertino to work for Apple's in-house team.
 
For Apple, sure! For us, no. I'd rather get the best product, than the best-marketed one.

That's the problem, my friend. The best product for your needs could be an unknown product created by a small company somewhere in Europe or Asia, chances are you will never even hear of it because of lack of marketing.

So many great products got killed because of bad marketing, so many medicore products peaked because of good marketing too. Not to get too 'Mad Men' on you but marketing dramatically shaped our (modern) life, in more ways than we can imagine. :D
 
Really bad idea. Reminds me of the saying that anyone who acts as their own lawyer has a fool for a client.

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A friend of mine pulled out his Galaxy S5, submerged it in a glass of water, pulled it out and it was completely fine. He then said, "yeah, do that with your iPhone."

I hate to say it... and it's beside the point... but... umm... your friend sounds like kind of a dick.
 
Well, we'll see how many people Apple can hire to find the next Steve Jobs. At least now they figured out Craig is the one to do the keynotes (and he's a great and smooth presenter, better than Tim/Phil).

Apple is fighting an uphill battle here. Those who like Apple, kinda gets the Apple way. However, majority of consumers don't care. All they care is which one has less sticker price, and which one carry the status quo. Apple actually was at the status quo part (and still is in some parts). But Samsung is quickly taking that spot with brute force marketing, and throwing everything under the kitchen sink (which actually can work in some markets that have extreme short attention span, like Asian market). Speaking of Asian market, remember that this was the market where Nokia and Sony Ericsson used to rule by releasing new feature phones every few months. They are not used to Apple's longer product cycle.

History is repeating itself. Just like how most people have PCs. It's cheaper, and have stickers on them.

On the other hand, I think as a company, obviously Apple is the smarter one, playing a much longer game than the others (Samsung is exception as they make everything under the sun, literally). We see companies like RIM, Nokia, Motorola come and gone, while Apple just keep on going and going. I do feel the momentum is a bit blunt right now, but come next year or so, I can see Apple picking up. We are going to see growth, and as people having more and more money (especially China), they would start to gratify towards Apple, as long as Apple can maintain their status quo without cheapening their image. Speaking of China, Apple knew this, thus they have been heavily focused on China for the last couple of years (even while Jobs was still around).

In the short term, all I ask for is a waterproof iPhone, or at least do the coating like the Moto X/G. Come on Apple, Moto G, a $200 phone, has such coating.
 
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