Apple's App Store, Safari, and iOS Officially Designated 'Gatekeepers' in EU

[Red Oak]

They don’t need to. The reason America has such crushing debt is because the republicans keep cutting taxes for their 1% backers but are still finding they need to spend a shedload of money in keeping the state functional.

The EU is actually a better system than the USA because each country is still its own separate jurisdiction of laws, taxes and so on. The EU is just a large area of some common laws (eg don’t destroy the environment) with freedom of movement of capital, trade and people across borders.

It’s not as federalised as the USA by a long shot.

That is completely wrong. Tax revenue to the Federal government has SOARED. Lowering taxes resulted in increased government tax receipts. The deficits are being caused by insane spending

Try doing some basic research on Google

 

[clayj]

Yes, so they need double regulation.

 

[MacProFCP]

It’s interesting to see how Americans are triggered by these things on a conceptual level. It seems like 'West', 'free market' and 'capitalism' are often not distinct from each other in the eyes of the US general public?

I can only assume the people defending these companies are all stockholders or fanboys that treat companies the way fantasy sports fans treat their teams only sports fans understand it’s a game.

Nope. We just believe in freedom.

 

[Ctrlos]

The EU was rationing gas last year.

Due to an ongoing war with its primary importer.

 

[xxray]

Safari is a gatekeeper but Google Chrome/Chromium based browsers are not? Yikes.

 

[Ctrlos]

Nope. We just believe in freedom.

Freedom of markets for anyone with an idea to be able to set up their own store and sell goods? That sounds like the American dream.

But imagine if the company that built the highways decided that only their shops could be opened up on the roadside and nobody else could or that only their cars could run on it.

 

[Razorpit]

Socialism works on a low level. It’s why Europe has nationalised healthcare and social support structures and America has the highest levels of poverty in the western world.

The health care is so good there in fact the elite travel to the US when they really need it. Thankfully it’s a lot easier for Canadians to make the trip.

Even the guys who invented GDP say it’s a terrible way of measuring the success of a country because it doesn’t take into account quality of life.

America might have higher GDP but when all that money is just filtered into the hands of billionaires instead of being spent on the infrastructure a functioning society needs such as nationalised healthcare what’s the point?

That’s under the assumption that billionaires just sit on that money and do nothing with it. They build things, make large purchases, and one way or another keep tens of thousands of people employed.

I’m sure “the lowly” plumbers, carpenters, electricians, etc. are happy the billionaires keep them busy. I’m sure “the lowly people” that work in shipping/receiving at Bombardier are happy billionaires are purchasing their company’s jets. How many tens of thousands Apple employees are happily working away as you read this supporting Tim Cook and the multi-trillion dollar Apple corporation? Contrary to the cartoon Scrooge McDuck, billionaires do not swim through vaults of gold and jewels.

And the reason why our healthcare system has dissolved in to the state that it is currently in is because of government regulation. There was once a time, not so long ago, people paid reasonable prices for healthcare. People paid the doctor directly for services rendered. Families health care costs exploded after the affordable healthcare act.

 

[laptech]

The EU is playing the large tech companies at their own game. How? well the large tech companies have this attitude of 'it's our way or the highway'. The EU is now basically saying, 'If you want to play in our backyard you play by our rules'.

 

[MacProFCP]

The problem is:

• App distribution on iOS/iPadOS locked to a single app store that Apple controls with no other way to get apps, which under the Digital Markets Act (DMA) marks them as a gatekeeper and they must rectify this by allowing alternatives to the Apple App Store on iOS, similarly to how they do on macOS
• WebKit being the only web engine allowed on iOS. (Chrome and FireFox on iOS are just UI skins, as they're still forced to use WebKit which defeats the entire point of using Chrome or FireFox, as people want Chromium and FireFox Quantum, not WebKit) Remember when Microsoft got in trouble for pulling that stunt back in the 90s with United States of America vs Microsoft?

So the solution for both is simple: Just allow alternatives like they do on macOS. That's it. That's all they gotta do. A simple problem with a simple solution that Apple does not want to do as it means their app store monopoly is a *little* bit smaller.



It's not just the EU. Japan also approved similar measures and they will be forcing Apple to allow alternative app distribution as well, and in Japan Apple has a landslide dominance over any other competitor there of almost 70%. Like it's not even close. You gonna tell Apple to stop selling their products there too when they have overwhelming market dominance?



Why? This change benefits consumers as now iOS would have competition in app distribution, and competition breeds innovation. The only people this doesn't benefit...is Apple. Curious. 🤔



You can just choose not to sideload you know. Just like on Android, sideloading is completely optional and can be turned on and off with a toggle in settings. You can stay with the Apple App Store and never touch any alternatives should you so choose to.



Yes adding alternatives to app distribution and other web engines on iOS and other proconsumer measures is a "power grab by the elites." I guess forcing Apple to switch to USB-C on the iPhone, a move millions have begged for, was also a power grab?

There are alternatives. Ever heard of Android?

Freedom of enterprise means that the government stays out of business as much as possible. There is very strong competition between Apple and Android. There were other major players too, like Blackberry, but people preferred Apple or Google.

Government molestation ends up with higher prices as it raises the cost of doing business. So what if the profits are lower, the cost to the consumer is higher.

 

[gnipgnop]

The problem is:

• App distribution on iOS/iPadOS locked to a single app store that Apple controls with no other way to get apps, which under the Digital Markets Act (DMA) marks them as a gatekeeper and they must rectify this by allowing alternatives to the Apple App Store on iOS, similarly to how they do on macOS
• WebKit being the only web engine allowed on iOS. (Chrome and FireFox on iOS are just UI skins, as they're still forced to use WebKit which defeats the entire point of using Chrome or FireFox, as people want Chromium and FireFox Quantum, not WebKit) Remember when Microsoft got in trouble for pulling that stunt back in the 90s with United States of America vs Microsoft?

So the solution for both is simple: Just allow alternatives like they do on macOS. That's it. That's all they gotta do. A simple problem with a simple solution that Apple does not want to do as it means their app store monopoly is a *little* bit smaller.

Here's the problem though: the EU is ignoring the actual history of desktop OS/apps vs. mobile OS/apps. Desktop systems were NOT a paradise of choice for consumers and an Eden for smaller developers. Desktop systems were dominated by entrenched legacy developers. Apple's choices with their mobile OS were designed to loosen the stranglehold that legacy developers had on the market by putting developers on more equal terms per the distribution and charges for being in a store. And really that's what you've seen the billion/trillion dollar companies complaining about to the EU, i.e., they're upset that Apple doesn't give them special deals versus everyone else.

 

[laptech]

I doubt Apple is too overly concerned about this because their biggest market in Europe is the UK and the UK is not in the EU (European Market). The only problem Apple has right now with the UK is the Online Safety Bill.

 

[Crowbot]

i miss the days when there were real tech people on sites like MacRumors, who would bristle at the idea of being restricted from installing whatever they want on a device they paid for, and would rejoice at the ending of that kind of repression. Now it’s all viewed through some weird political lens (EU bad! Stifled innovation! Atlas Shrugged!) for some reason.

The world has changed. When I got into computers only tech heads were into it. Now everyone has complicated tech and it's overwhelming for a lot of people. As much as we cringe, they need a gatekeeper. So I'm generally for the App Store model. OTOH, I don't get why Apple would restrict alternate browsers.

 

[MacProFCP]

Freedom of markets for anyone with an idea to be able to set up their own store and sell goods? That sounds like the American dream.

But imagine if the company that built the highways decided that only their shops could be opened up on the roadside and nobody else could or that only their cars could run on it.

Funny because that is exactly what the government does. Do you know that on most turnpikes (major, toll road highways) there is only one tow company allowed to do business? Yup! And they pay a nice kickback to the State.

Ever heard of rest stops? Yup, more money to the government there too.

The benefits of capitalism is that the customer is the ultimate consumer and the market is directed to what the consumer wants; not some arbitrary decision by those removed from ordinary life.

Those who can do; those who can’t work for the government.

 

[gnipgnop]

The EU website has a handy list of what it's going to do, since the article doesn't really address this:

Examples of the “do’s”: gatekeepers will for example have to:

• allow third parties to inter-operate with the gatekeeper’s own services in certain specific situations;
• allow their business users to access the data that they generate in their use of the gatekeeper’s platform;
• provide companies advertising on their platform with the tools and information necessary for advertisers and publishers to carry out their own independent verification of their advertisements hosted by the gatekeeper;
• allow their business users to promote their offer and conclude contracts with their customers outside the gatekeeper’s platform.

Notice how none of those bullet points have anything to do with consumers.

 

[mikethebigo]

It would have been way better for Apple to open things up on their own from a position of strength, than to have to be legally regulated in this way.

 

[Ctrlos]

Here's the problem though: the EU is ignoring the actual history of desktop OS/apps vs. mobile OS/apps. Desktop systems were NOT a paradise of choice for consumers and an Eden for smaller developers. Desktop systems were dominated by entrenched legacy developers. Apple's choices with their mobile OS were designed to loosen the stranglehold that legacy developers had on the market by putting developers on more equal terms per the distribution and charges for being in a store. And really that's what you've seen the billion/trillion dollar companies complaining about to the EU, i.e., they're upset that Apple doesn't give them special deals versus everyone else.

Windows and Linux say otherwise. It’s pretty easy for me to knock up a shareware app for Windows that I can distribute from my own website or seed to dozens of repositories.

Doing so on mobile is a lot more difficult.

 

[vegetassj4]

Did someone say Gatekeeper?

 

[Ctrlos]

Notice how none of those bullet points have anything to do with consumers.

As a consumer I like having a high street of shops I can pick and choose from instead of one large retailer dictating everything. I can even choose from 4-5 large supermarkets if I want to go somewhere bigger.

 

[McWetty]

I don't think Libertarianism would work. It lacks the compassion necessary for a functioning society. It may look good on paper but is impractical. We know how well "Socialism" worked. Another rigid doctrinal system would be no better.

Why can’t it be all 3? Why can’t we have the growth benefits of free market capitalism married to the laissez-faire Libertarian ideas and the regulation heavy redistribution theories of socialism? Ideologies are good to get started with, and each have their merits, but you can’t have blind faith in any one of them because each have their innate problems too. Perhaps the sum would be greater than the parts?

As this relates to Apple (and Google, Amazon, etc), I do believe they have garnered too much (percentage of) wealth and power. But they got that way because people buy their product. Nobody forced anybody else to buy their products or use their services. The real problem is what abuses do they commit with that power. Does the DMA fix or prevent those abuses? I don’t know.

 

[MacProFCP]

You can be as upset as you want, but the facts are clear.






I think if I was subject to the EU, I'd be a little annoyed that they were concerned about a phone browser rather than taking steps to address the stagnant, rapidly falling behind economies of the member states.

Exactly on point. Why would anyone want to do business in the EU?

Hey, don’t worry, the US isn’t far behind in destroying its own economy.

Here is a great idea that’s never been tried before:

Everyone works 20 hours per week with 10 weeks paid vacation and everyone gets paid the same regardless of ability or skillset.

Then, when there isn’t enough money, just blame someone else.

 

[VulchR]

What is the problem they are trying to solve?
Can that be stated before they tell us the fix?

The problem is that Apple is a successful company not located in the EU (except for the tax-avoiding 'research' arm in Ireland).

 

[MLVC]

And as usual this turns out to be a whole lot of posts from Americans shouting something about the EU, which they know nothing about but hey it's bad anyway because "my freedoms".

 

[azpekt]

You are being derogatory to people in Europe, which I'm not even from

So, you are offended on their behalf?

This aint Reddit, dude.

 

[-BigMac-]

So, you are offended on their behalf?

This aint Reddit, dude.

You don't have to be the target to identify something as derogatory

 

[Syk]

TikTok has algorithms to direct people to specific content. I guess that makes them a gatekeeper.

But that seems like something any app would be doing