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Why would Samsung agree to this? Apple wins in that regard as well. :cool:

We will see Wednesday. I have owned an iPhone since the first one, but what I have seen for a 2 year journey to an iPhone 5 is extremely disappointing. The Galaxy S III is a very sweet phone and if the iPhone 5 is what the rumors state, and there are no new surprises, well.... :)

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That's just ignorance. If you knew anything about the details of the lawsuit, you will find that it was not a lawsuit for a rectangular phone with rounded corners.

Uh, I have read them and it is not much more.
 
We will see Wednesday. I have owned an iPhone since the first one, but what I have seen for a 2 year journey to an iPhone 5 is extremely disappointing. The Galaxy S III is a very sweet phone and if the iPhone 5 is what the rumors state, and there are no new surprises, well.... :)

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Uh, I have read them and it is not much more.

Didn't the trade dress accusations get thrown out? Wasn't most of the infringements related to Touchwiz? Samsung's appealing the decision, aren't they?
 
The only way to violate FRAND is to either discriminate or offer non fair or reasonable terms. Suing someone that doesn't have a valid license to your patents but is using them is neither discriminatory or an offer that isn't fair and reasonable.

Don't mix things up here. There is no anti-competitive behavior in suing patent infringers. The courts will decide whether infringement has taken place as claimed and if it has, what damages should be awarded.
IMO, the requirement that s single Qualcomm customer (Apple) purchase their license directly from Samsung rather than using the license sold by Samsung to Qualcomm for all its other customers is by definition discriminatory.
 
True enough, but LTE does not become a standard for 4G without the patent holders agreeing to FRAND licensing terms. The patent holders win in this because they get a broad audience of folks to license their patents at fair and reasonable rates. If a competing standard to LTE wins out then those LTE patents become worthless because the carriers never implement LTE.

Besides all that, we are likely looking at yet another case of patent exhaustion where Apple buys the chip from Qualcomm and Qualcomm is fully licensed.

So we will see the same defense as in the past:

1) Standards-essential FRAND patents

2) Patent exhaustion via Qualcomm license

End result, Samsuck needs to license the patents from Apple that were just upheld and forge a license-but-do-not-clone agreement with Apple and move on.
The thing is though even if LTE was used in agreement with FRAND, Apple refuse to take part in and agree with FRAND so therefor that still wouldn't solve the situation for Apple.

The only plausible way for Apple is if somehow they don't infringe on Samsung's patents.
 
This patent war is only good the legal services business.

On another note, people celebrating Apple's victory shouldn't be too quick in celebrating. Samsung has won major fights in other jurisdictions and it remains to be seen what will happen with the appeal in the U.S. Even if the 1 billion stands, have to remember that Samsung is 2.5-3 times the size of Apple, albeit much more diversified.
 
Certainly interested to know how Samsung will argue LTE patents essential for LTE implementation should not be considered SEPs under FRAND terms when LTE networks are becoming the next major wireless data standard worldwide. "New and highly valued" doesn't seem to add up in this context.

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This patent war is only good the legal services business.

On another note, people celebrating Apple's victory shouldn't be too quick in celebrating. Samsung has won major fights in other jurisdictions and it remains to be seen what will happen with the appeal in the U.S. Even if the 1 billion stands, have to remember that Samsung is 2.5-3 times the size of Apple, albeit much more diversified.

By what measure?
 
This patent war is only good the legal services business.

On another note, people celebrating Apple's victory shouldn't be too quick in celebrating. Samsung has won major fights in other jurisdictions and it remains to be seen what will happen with the appeal in the U.S. Even if the 1 billion stands, have to remember that Samsung is 2.5-3 times the size of Apple, albeit much more diversified.

How is Samsung's size relevant here? And you said yourself, they're diversified, which means making a direct comparison less meaningful. Even Samsung apparently wants to further separate their mobile division from their semiconductor division since the customers of one is the competitor of the other.
 
This thing is simply going to rumble on for years unless both sides call off the legal attack dogs and agree a compromise cross licensing arrangement. The sooner the better.
 
IMO, the requirement that s single Qualcomm customer (Apple) purchase their license directly from Samsung rather than using the license sold by Samsung to Qualcomm for all its other customers is by definition discriminatory.

But most of Qualcomm customers already have an agreement wiht Samsung so therefore not discriminating. Remember Apple does not own patents that are part of the FRAND for or critical for 3G, and GSM. Most of those other company making cell phones do and as such have patent trading agreements in place. Apple is very new to the cell phone market and trying to side step paying any of the patents.
 
Heh, but the alternative is a future with Windows 8. Would rather enter a swallow my own head up my anus competition with Apple than endure that.
However, Windows 7 will be supported until January 14, 2020. That's seven years and four months from now. Given Apple's history with OS X, I doubt they will support the MacBook Pro with Retina Display anywhere near as long.
 
This thing is simply going to rumble on for years unless both sides call off the legal attack dogs and agree a compromise cross licensing arrangement. The sooner the better.

It won't last years or even weeks. This really is a MAD situation.

Why would Telco's invest/risk money deploying a system that they can't have confidence in the Patent players keeping there end of the FRAND bargain.

If Samsung go ahead with this I thinking it will be less than 1 week after that we will hear of major telco's halting or cancelling LTE deployments.
 
Simple: UMTS/3G is an ENTIRELY different technology than LTE and at this point, LTE is far from being a standard that is as ubiquitous as UMTS. In a few years, the picture will be different. But today it's a brand-new and NOT widely used technology that certainly does not fall under any special "FRAND" regulations.

Apple should learn to pay for other people's technology and share their own stuff under FAIR agreements, then we wouldn't have this ridiculous legal sitcom.

I agree technology is new, but it is a new standard. I also point out that the iPad has early 4G - LTE tech in it and if samsung really had any power in it, they'd have acted already. A lot of talk comes from companies.
 
Secondly, fair enough. They bought Apple stock. Either way, Microsoft still helped dig Apple out of the hole they were in.

It's not like they were doing it out of the goodness of their own hearts:

The lawsuit "Apple Computer v. San Francisco Canyon Co.", filed on December 6, 1994, alleged that the San Francisco Canyon Company used some of the code developed under contract to Apple in their additions to Video for Windows. Apple expanded the lawsuit to include Intel and Microsoft on February 10, 1995, alleging that Microsoft and Intel knowingly used the software company to aid them in stealing several thousand lines of Apple's QuickTime code in their effort to improve the performance of Video for Windows.

On March 3, 1995, a Federal judge issued a temporary restraining order that prohibited Microsoft from distributing its current version of Video for Windows....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Canyon_Company
 
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Lol, generalizations Apple haters make because they can't come up with anything factual or intelligent to say....

Keep drinking that haterade. I'll continue to be a fan of tech as a whole and make my decisions based on my own preferences. Just as everyone else should.

Woppa Gangnam Style!!!!!
 
I'll admit I'm no patent expert, but we're not dealing with complex thought processes here. Based on the given information there are two possibilities:

1) Either Samsung is posturing and wants to show Apple they won't back down by making veiled threats.

or

2) There is infringement in the LTE radio the iPhone 5 will reportedly have and Samsung knows what is causing the infringement.

I am arguing that the first is more likely given the current evidence.
Wishfull thinking because youre apple fan.

You dont know lte patents from samsung you dont know the tech used in iphone 5 you dont know the licensing agreements.




We only know the party with most lte patents will guard them carefully
 
But most of Qualcomm customers already have an agreement wiht Samsung so therefore not discriminating. Remember Apple does not own patents that are part of the FRAND for or critical for 3G, and GSM. Most of those other company making cell phones do and as such have patent trading agreements in place. Apple is very new to the cell phone market and trying to side step paying any of the patents.
When the 3G3P group (the collective of companies whose IP made up the 3G standard) underwent scrutiny in the EU regarding its potentially anticompetitive nature, the group claimed that there would be a "Standard Royalty rate" for all licensees and a "Maximum Cumulative Royalty rate", and that to avoid accusations of price fixing, licensees could make bilateral agreements under FRAND terms to charge less than the maximum rates to recognize the IP co-licensees brought to the standard. The problem is that Samsung wanted to stop offering these licensing terms to Qualcomm, also a member of the 3G3P group, for any merchandise that was subsequently sold to Apple. Instead, Samsung wanted to establish its own bilateral agreement with Apple that included licensing fees equal to the entire "Maximum Cumulative Royalty rate" for only Samsung's portion of the 3G IP. Furthermore, Samsung wanted to base its calculation of the "Maximum Cumulative Royalty rate" on the entire cost of the iPhone, rather than just on the price of the broadband chip that featured Samsung's IP (why, for example, the value of Samsung's 3G patents used in the iPhone should be increased based on the cost of the phone's cameras, screen, GPS, and GPU, is beyond me). How is it that IP that's apparently worth pennies in a Galaxy S should cost $15 - $20 in an iPhone? Come on, if every member of a standards group wanted $20/phone for its IP, with about 20 members in a standards group, it would cost $400/phone for a new competitor to enter the market just to obtain the communications protocol IP. Talk about stifling competition!

Now I know that Apple's licensing offer to Samsung for its design patents was anything but reasonable. But then again, those patents were not part of a communications protocol, and were not subject to FRAND licensing. Samsung wants to have patents that are part of an agreed on communications protocol to be treated in the same manner as design patents that give each device its unique appearance and functionality. This defeats the purpose of FRAND licensing by creating an impassible barrier to any company that was not a major contributor to the standard, thereby excluding new players from the industry and limiting consumers' choices.

I was just looking at the major players' LTE patent portfolios, and was surprised to see how much LTE IP Samsung has. If Samsung is allowed (as the source quoted in this article suggests) to evade FRAND licensing for its LTE IP, then Apple is indeed in a great deal of trouble, because Samsung could make it impossible for Apple to produce any LTE device at a reasonable price. I'm sure you're not arguing in favor of this, right?

Edit: The more I look at it, the more I think that Apple's only chance to survive in the wireless device market is to reach a cross-licensing agreement with Samsung ASAP, unless Apple confirms that it can obtain LTE IP under (truly) FRAND terms. Samsung simply has far too much LTE IP for Apple to fight.
 
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This is nothing more than a desperate attempt from Samsung to retaliate against Apple. Apple had clear proof all the way down to an internal document showing how to copy the iPhone. Suing someone for using 4G will go nowhere. Not to mention that IF Samsung had a case here, they would actually hurt themselves by making carriers less likely to invest in LTE due to the limited number of phones carrying it. This is nothing more than Samsung attempting to bully Apple and I am guessing it will be shut down in court immediately.
 
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Not to mention that IF Samsung had a case here, they would actually hurt themselves by making carriers less likely to invest in LTE due to the limited number of phones carrying it.

I don't like how Samsung is suing Apple but what limited number of phones carrying it are you talking about?
 
I don't like how Samsung is suing Apple but what limited number of phones carrying it are you talking about?

I'm saying that if Samsung wants to go after manufacturers using LTE so that only Samsung phones end up using it, then there would be a limited number of phones on the market that were LTE compatible. If that happened it would end up dying because none of the carriers would want to invest in the technology on a large scale if only a percentage of their phones worked with it.
 
I'm saying that if Samsung wants to go after manufacturers using LTE so that only Samsung phones end up using it, then there would be a limited number of phones on the market that were LTE compatible. If that happened it would end up dying because none of the carriers would want to invest in the technology on a large scale if only a percentage of their phones worked with it.

Investments are already done, and if samsung truly has critical patents they can license it.

No in no way can this hurt samsung .
 
Krall's profile comes as Apple may be facing even more lawsuits in the coming months, as The Korea Times reports that anonymous Samsung officials have acknowledged plans to sue Apple over the iPhone 5, focusing on LTE-related patents held by the Korean company.
"It's true that Samsung Electronics has decided to take immediate legal action against the Cupertino-based Apple. Countries in Europe and even the United States - Apple's home-turf - are our primary targets," said a senior Samsung who is directly involved with the matter, in a telephone interview with The Korea Times. [...]

Interesting. That Korean Times article no longer uses "Samsung" as the source. Now it's changed to say "industry source" instead. E.g.

It’s true that Samsung Electronics has decided to take immediate legal action against the Cupertino-based Apple. Countries in Europe and even the United States ― Apple’s home-turf ― are our primary targets,’’ said an industry source. - latest version

So either Samsung didn't say this after all, or they didn't want it publicized, or ?
 
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I'm saying that if Samsung wants to go after manufacturers using LTE so that only Samsung phones end up using it, then there would be a limited number of phones on the market that were LTE compatible. If that happened it would end up dying because none of the carriers would want to invest in the technology on a large scale if only a percentage of their phones worked with it.

Samsung is only going after Apple, not anyone else. i doubt carriers care either. carriers already sell aganist the iphone for the sole fact that they make more money off the dumbphones and non iphone smartphones
 
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