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It is a tricky situation here. You can’t keep the economy shut down much longer. And you want to help people by enforcing isolation. But you can’t really have both without consequences with the other.

What would you do?

Its not tricky at all. People die every day. More people die from car wrecks. Right now that is about 1.35 million per year across the globe. In the US, 4.4 million are injured seriously enough to require medical attention. But let me ask you this. Why don't we shut down the highways and ban cars?

Let me answer that for you, the COVID response is NOT about deaths or sickness, it is about money, power, and politics. If you know someone that lost a lot because of the job loss, restrictions, etc., then know that it was all lost so politicians could look important and get re-elected. Thats all.
 
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Let me answer that for you, the COVID response is NOT about deaths or sickness, it is about money, power, and politics. If you know someone that lost a lot because of the job loss, restrictions, etc., then know that it was all lost so politicians could look important and get re-elected. Thats all.
It’s about money because of the resources needed to combat the disease in the hospital. Previously medical care workers don’t need full protection to care for a car crash victim in the hospital. Not to mention the isolation as the disease is easily and covertly transmitted. It’s about politics due to the hoarding and gouging and hard to get nature of necessities for the public and care givers.
 
Its not tricky at all. People die every day. More people die from car wrecks. Right now that is about 1.35 million per year across the globe. In the US, 4.4 million are injured seriously enough to require medical attention. But let me ask you this. Why don't we shut down the highways and ban cars?

Let me answer that for you, the COVID response is NOT about deaths or sickness, it is about money, power, and politics. If you know someone that lost a lot because of the job loss, restrictions, etc., then know that it was all lost so politicians could look important and get re-elected. Thats all.

It is tricky because it's not a simple binary answer. The COVID response is actually a combination of all of the above with more emphasis on money, power, and politics (the latter 3 here being the white elephants). The death variable is important because that's what general audiences can directly see.
 
I’m kind of surprised they didn’t call this something more generic like “Infectious disease tracker” this kind of tracking could have benefits beyond just COVID-19 for sure.
 
It's not done. The restrictions are the only thing that keep the case numbers from growing exponentially again and overwhelming the healthcare system. Think about it: nothing has changed from earlier this year when the virus first started cirulating. We have no vaccine, no cure, and are far away from "herd immunity". Why would you think the result would be any different now if all restrictions were lifted?

That’s not true. As more people get it there are increasing fewer left to get it because of accumulated immunity and The infection process declines to 0. this is the essence of the math behind the viral S curve. Yes it starts out exponential but then inflicts and then reduces exponentially to a zero infection rate, being entirely dependent on those remaing that are infection free and the lack of paths remaining to infect them.
 
It's not done. The restrictions are the only thing that keep the case numbers from growing exponentially again and overwhelming the healthcare system. Think about it: nothing has changed from earlier this year when the virus first started cirulating. We have no vaccine, no cure, and are far away from "herd immunity". Why would you think the result would be any different now if all restrictions were lifted?
Because a large number of people already have had it, and we have far more knowledge about how to combat this thing than we did. People understand social distancing now (for the most part), and most people are wearing masks. The entire landscape has changed from what it was when this started. It's likely that we'd be able to maintain a slowed spread even if we opened up today (aided by the already ~20% of people likely immune already).

The one thing's that certain is: Just because we're all panicking about coronavirus right now, that doesn't mean that other diseases have vanished. People are dying of many other things at higher rates now because of people not going to their doctors for routine or "highly advisable" checkups. At some point the death rate from coronavirus will get low enough, that the death rate from other ailments should end up being more of a concern, but I suspect that the group-think of the day will prevent anyone from even considering such a thing, and as a result, many people will die needlessly.
 
That’s not true. As more people get it there are increasing fewer left to get it because of accumulated immunity and The infection process declines to 0. this is the essence of the math behind the viral S curve. Yes it starts out exponential but then inflicts and then reduces exponentially to a zero infection rate, being entirely dependent on those remaing that are infection free and the lack of paths remaining to infect them.
As I wrote, we are far away from herd immunity. If all restrictions were lifted, the health care systems would be overwhelmed for an extended amount of time and there'd be millions of deaths before herd immunity is reached.
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Because a large number of people already have had it
Only a small minority of the population has had it, and we have no idea how strong the immunity is and how long it lasts.
and we have far more knowledge about how to combat this thing than we did.
What new knowledge are you referring to?
People understand social distancing now (for the most part), and most people are wearing masks.
That won't help at all if they have to squeeze into crowded trains and buses to get to work or sit shoulder to shoulder with an infected person for 2 hours in a movie theater. And masks alone aren't nearly effective enough to "flatten the curve".
The entire landscape has changed from what it was when this started. It's likely that we'd be able to maintain a slowed spread even if we opened up today
Well, the experts disagree. And even with the current restrictions we still have around 2000 deaths every day.
The one thing's that certain is: Just because we're all panicking about coronavirus right now, that doesn't mean that other diseases have vanished. People are dying of many other things at higher rates now because of people not going to their doctors for routine or "highly advisable" checkups.
First, I would like to see some numbers. Second, none of the restrictions in the US prohibit people from visiting a doctor for other reasons than Covid-19. And the fear that may be holding back some won't go away by lifting the restrictions. On the contrary, the rate of new cases will increase again and the perceived risk will become higher.
 
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The COVID response is NOT about deaths or sickness, it is about money, power, and politics. If you know someone that lost a lot because of the job loss, restrictions, etc., then know that it was all lost so politicians could look important and get re-elected. Thats all.
Of course. And it makes a lot of sense when you look at it.

I mean, we all know the politicians are Reptilians and they don't want us to know that girls don't exist, September 11 was a hoax and planet Earth is as flat as a sheet of paper.

So they coordinated themselves with the Templars and the Illuminati to suppress our freedom by creating a fake virus that scares us, but doesn't even exist. All of this to get a hold on the Holy Grail while we are all confined, and thus become invincible and mind-control us all.

The proofs are everywhere!
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Recent data suggests that the virus is far less deadly than previously thought
I think you forgot to read before posting. You definitely mean MORE, not less.

Recent data shows a 7% death toll, as opposed to 2 and 3.4% announced by the WHO in February and March respectively.

Using the official numbers declared and the same formula as the WHO, who was also using the official numbers declared. At this rate, it's going to end up being roughly 10%, just like SARS 1.0. Which makes sense because it's the same family of virus.

We'll know by the end of the pandemic.
 
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Homemade cloth masks aren't going to do crap to protect you or others...... and the CDC and surgeon general are either liars or incompetent with their ever-changing guidance.

 
I’m kind of surprised they didn’t call this something more generic like “Infectious disease tracker” this kind of tracking could have benefits beyond just COVID-19 for sure.

And, there we have it. The first of "and what do we use this technology for next?" ponderings.
 
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Only a small minority of the population has had it, and we have no idea how strong the immunity is and how long it lasts.
We don't know precisely, but all indications are (once you rule out unreliable testing) is that people are not getting reinfected. Long enough to generate herd immunity and kill this thing.
What new knowledge are you referring to?
Lots of things.
1. We know with a high degree of certainty who the most vulnerable are. They should be quarantined and protected to the best of our ability, which will significantly limit deaths.
2. We know that heat also slows this thing down considerably, well guess what season we're heading towards? It's already warming up in NYC significantly, which should improve things a good deal.
3. Individually we have all learned to benefits of social distancing, washing our hands, and wearing masks (gloves don't really help). That too will significantly slow down the spread.
That won't help at all if they have to squeeze into crowded trains and buses to get to work or sit shoulder to shoulder with an infected person for 2 hours in a movie theater. And masks alone aren't nearly effective enough to "flatten the curve".
You make a lot of assumptions, and clearly suffer from a lack of faith in the average human. The average human, completely voluntarily shut themselves indoors, to their detriment in many cases. The average human is going to social distance. The average human won't be sitting shoulder to shoulder in a movie theater.

Now, if NYC wasn't run by a buffoon, the logical solution to your bus and train problem would be to run extra trains to keep the density in the trains and buses low, and that would allow some social distancing. Unfortunately, I highly doubt the city's leaders are competent enough to actually do that, so it's likely that Manhattan will be the last place to open in any significant way (people commute back and forth into Manhattan primarily for business). That would be another temporary solution for your bus/train problem as well.

I'm not suggesting we open things up completely, in fact nobody is. Some opening is definitely possible. Shutting everything down at this point is silly, and is causing many deaths unnecessarily.

Well, the experts disagree. And even with the current restrictions we still have around 2000 deaths every day.
"The experts"

You mean the ones you listen to. There are many doctors with credentials matching the credentials of those who you listen to, but unfortunately anyone who disagrees with the group think of the day, even if backed with science, is shut down by the likes of Facebook, Google, etc (and other tech giants), so it's likely you haven't heard the dissenting opinions.

We live in a fascist country today, largely because of those tech giants. There is only one correct viewpoint. While we all admit that we don't have all the information, somehow many have come to the conclusion that there is only one possible answer. A strange contradiction.
First, I would like to see some numbers. Second, none of the restrictions in the US prohibit people from visiting a doctor for other reasons than Covid-19. And the fear that may be holding back some won't go away by lifting the restrictions. On the contrary, the rate of new cases will increase again and the perceived risk will become higher.
There are many sorts of ailments out there, alcoholism and drug abuse for example, both of which are up. There are stats out there on it, I'll find you one in a few. Point is, people are suffering and in some cases, even dying. At some point, this disease just won't be worth it, and I think we're almost there.
 
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Might as well not even use a passcode then. Tgst would probably weaken securing tgdn Apple would get “dinged”.
I'm not suggesting that they totally destroy security, just that they add some cleverness to unlock with a mask. With faceid claimed to be 20x more secure than touchid, there might be some room to have it work with a mask while keeping it at least as secure as touchid... Maybe in combination with Apple Watch, like it works to unlock my Mac?
 
We don't know precisely, but all indications are (once you rule out unreliable testing) is that people are not getting reinfected. Long enough to generate herd immunity and kill this thing.
This is just empty speculation.
Lots of things.
1. We know with a high degree of certainty who the most vulnerable are. They should be quarantined and protected to the best of our ability, which will significantly limit deaths.
Not really. The doctors who are actually treating patients still discover new aspects every day, such as that young people may be at a risk of stroke even if they escape lung infection.
2. We know that heat also slows this thing down considerably, well guess what season we're heading towards? It's already warming up in NYC significantly, which should improve things a good deal.
Actually, we don't know that at all. The virus is spreading rapidly in some countries with warm climates.
3. Individually we have all learned to benefits of social distancing, washing our hands, and wearing masks (gloves don't really help). That too will significantly slow down the spread.
We still don't know exactly how much masks actually help, for example.
You make a lot of assumptions, and clearly suffer from a lack of faith in the average human. The average human, completely voluntarily shut themselves indoors, to their detriment in many cases. The average human is going to social distance. The average human won't be sitting shoulder to shoulder in a movie theater.
You didn't get the point. If you want to open up the economy fully, the average human does not have a choice in many cases. For example, in normal times here in the Bay Area, hundreds of thousands of people per day are dependent on crowded public transport to get to work since roads and highways don't have have the capacity for everyone to use their own car. It's the same in many major cities around the world. And movie theaters were troubled economically before the crisis, many won't survive if they have to cut the number of seats in half or less. The same goes for air travel if the number of passengers per flight has to be cut because middle seats can no longer be used. And so on.
Now, if NYC wasn't run by a buffoon, the logical solution to your bus and train problem would be to run extra trains to keep the density in the trains and buses low, and that would allow some social distancing.
Have you even been on the NYC subway? The trains already run back to back during rush hour. The capacity of any transport system is limited.
"The experts"

You mean the ones you listen to.
I mean the ones who have spent their lives studying the issues. What qualification do you have to know better?
We live in a fascist country today, largely because of those tech giants. There is only one correct viewpoint. While we all admit that we don't have all the information, somehow many have come to the conclusion that there is only one possible answer. A strange contradiction.
:rolleyes:
 
Takeover of the western world via faketistics and fear porn. Unbelievable....

Fear porn. A good one. Can’t make this stuff up any better.
Sure, go outside and hug your strangers :D

And, there we have it. The first of "and what do we use this technology for next?" ponderings.

I thought the tech is used in the Find My services for a long time already.
That would then be in active use by millions already. None of those ever complained about tracking here, right?

But then having a mobile phone and being concerned about tracking is a logical contradiction in terms.
 
This is just empty speculation.
Not really. The doctors who are actually treating patients still discover new aspects every day, such as that young people may be at a risk of stroke even if they escape lung infection.
Actually, we don't know that at all. The virus is spreading rapidly in some countries with warm climates.
We still don't know exactly how much masks actually help, for example.
You didn't get the point. If you want to open up the economy fully, the average human does not have a choice in many cases. For example, in normal times here in the Bay Area, hundreds of thousands of people per day are dependent on crowded public transport to get to work since roads and highways don't have have the capacity for everyone to use their own car. It's the same in many major cities around the world. And movie theaters were troubled economically before the crisis, many won't survive if they have to cut the number of seats in half or less. The same goes for air travel if the number of passengers per flight has to be cut because middle seats can no longer be used. And so on.
Have you even been on the NYC subway? The trains already run back to back during rush hour. The capacity of any transport system is limited.
I mean the ones who have spent their lives studying the issues. What qualification do you have to know better?
:rolleyes:
You watch too much CNN. You're wrong on many counts, and it seems that you're in a partially-panicked state, which makes further discussion with you pointless.

You obviously don't have the insight needed to see what's going on in terms of human rights either, with the silencing of opinion, which gives me further incentive to not discuss this further with you.
 
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