Apple's Culture of Secrecy Slowing its Artificial Intelligence Development

[kdarling]

You can point out the flaws in any strategy.

True, otherwise we'd have little to talk about

Companies that talk too much about what they're going to release end up releasing that exact thing, for better or for worse. Secrecy allows Apple to remain focused on making the best possible product, which only sees the light of day when they feel it's ready to be seen.

That makes Apple sound weak-willed, as if they were incapable of ignoring customer wishlists. (I think their problem now is that they seem incapable of ignoring internal wishlists from people like Ive.)

I still think the main reason for secrecy, is that they just really, really love going for the shock and delight effect during each new product keynote

From experience, I believe that customer feedback is critical to making the best possible product.

But maybe you're right about how Apple thinks. Remember the iPhone, and the Watch, and how they were each revealed six months before going on sale. Very little actually changed after they were shown off. Well, except that Jobs had to respond to criticism of no third party apps on the iPhone, and the immediate gripes about the plastic screen seemed to really push him to have the glass cover ready in time for sales launch.

 

[freepomme]

Not unlike your post.

I really don't understand Apple fanboys at all. The way to make a company sit up take notice and do things better is to offer constructive criticism not suck up everything you are given in glee.

As others have said Google Now and Cortana are genuinely way ahead of anything Siri is capable off. The way to change that is not to trade insults with posters i.e. don't shoot the messenger, try to persuade Apple to raise their game. That way everyone wins.

I just wish Siri was different.

It's supposed to be personal but it doesn't know anything about me and I know nothing about it.

It's supposed to be an assistant, but it doesn't assist in the right ways.

I've been saying this since 2011.


I'd like to use Siri more.... but what it can do remains limited. How much it knows remains limited.

I'm not saying it should be exactly like Google Now or Cortana, but as those are concerned, they are more helpful.

Even if they don't have the personality that Siri has, and that's what everyone likes. Something smart, with a good personality.

Why exactly it is limited (as this article intends to discuss) is a mystery. Do you think that they are purposely limiting Siri's capabilities, allowing it to remain rigid and simple so that the margin of error is lessened? Or do you think Siri's core technology is already at the cutting edge of what Apple can do?

Honestly, I believe it's the latter. I don't think Siri is THAT advanced, and I don't think they are working on advanced capabilities in artificial intelligence, to make it more like Spike Jone's Her and less like a voice-controlled conduit.

Because I don't see any evidence of it. I feel like I've been waiting for the real Siri to come since 2011.

The fact of the matter is, as the article says: Apple's culture of secrecy is holding Siri back. That's the problem with Siri.

The main things that would make Siri better all lie in giving up your most private information. What makes Siri like you, know you, and for it to become more intelligent, means that it needs to be able to dig into your life and track what you are doing.

That's what will forever hold Siri back. It's obvious at this point. Siri can't be proactive unless it has you give up your privacy.

As for me, I'm more than willing to give up as much as Siri needs. I'm willing to give it all. Because I want that proactive assistant I can rely on. I wouldn't mind. Google has the information.

I see why Apple values secrecy though. Secrecy is very important and allows people to view the company on a different plane than other companies.

 

[inkswamp]

I just wish Siri was different.

It's supposed to be personal but it doesn't know anything about me and I know nothing about it.

It's supposed to be an assistant, but it doesn't assist in the right ways.

I've been saying this since 2011.


I'd like to use Siri more.... but what it can do remains limited. How much it knows remains limited.

I'm not saying it should be exactly like Google Now or Cortana, but as those are concerned, they are more helpful.

Even if they don't have the personality that Siri has, and that's what everyone likes. Something smart, with a good personality.

Why exactly it is limited (as this article intends to discuss) is a mystery. Do you think that they are purposely limiting Siri's capabilities, allowing it to remain rigid and simple so that the margin of error is lessened? Or do you think Siri's core technology is already at the cutting edge of what Apple can do?

Honestly, I believe it's the latter. I don't think Siri is THAT advanced, and I don't think they are working on advanced capabilities in artificial intelligence, to make it more like Spike Jone's Her and less like a voice-controlled conduit.

Because I don't see any evidence of it. I feel like I've been waiting for the real Siri to come since 2011.

The fact of the matter is, as the article says: Apple's culture of secrecy is holding Siri back. That's the problem with Siri.

The main things that would make Siri better all lie in giving up your most private information. What makes Siri like you, know you, and for it to become more intelligent, means that it needs to be able to dig into your life and track what you are doing.

That's what will forever hold Siri back. It's obvious at this point. Siri can't be proactive unless it has you give up your privacy.

As for me, I'm more than willing to give up as much as Siri needs. I'm willing to give it all. Because I want that proactive assistant I can rely on. I wouldn't mind. Google has the information.

I see why Apple values secrecy though. Secrecy is very important and allows people to view the company on a different plane than other companies.

First off, I'm not an Apple fanboy. I think they produce some of the best products in tech so I own some of their products but I'm no fanboy. When they screw up, I'm not shy about saying so. I've taken to tweeting directly to Tim Cook on Twitter to let him know that I'm not happy about Apple's failure to fix SMB and I've complained about that here as well. I've also very recently expressed my annoyance with Apple for continuing on with the iMac even though it's clearly time to move on to something new.

But Siri is not nearly as bad as you make it sound.

And frankly, I'm not sure what to respond to in your post as you've ranted a bit but given not one concrete example of where Siri fails you. You say it's limited. You say it's not a real assistant. You compare it to Cortana and Google Now. Give me some examples.

I have no complaints about Siri as it is. I can send texts and email completely hands-free using Siri. I can have Siri read back texts and emails. I can have Siri start applications, play specific songs or album, set reminders, set timers, set alarms, and tons of other things I discovered on a routine basis, including looking up just about any information I need.

That last one is huge. Yesterday after reading some whining here on Macrumors, I got in the car, set my phone on the passenger seat and started off with a series of random questions. "Hey Siri, when was President Obama born?" "Hey Siri, how tall is Mount Baker?" "Hey Siri, how many calories in a banana." etc., and she had answers for me. The only one I stumped her with out of two dozen queries was when I asked for a good chicken parmesan recipe, and in lieu of an actual answer, she pulled up web results which, if I hadn't been driving, would have actually been perfectly acceptable.

I realize there's a whole lot more Siri could be doing but, for me, it covers my demands and occasionally surprises me with ones I didn't know it could handle.

So, I'm curious to hear what you have to say and I'm willing to take you seriously (even though your posting history makes me suspect you only joined to troll.) So, specifically, what are you trying to use Siri for that marks it as such a failure in your book?

 

[dk001]

First off, I'm not an Apple fanboy. I think they produce some of the best products in tech so I own some of their products but I'm no fanboy. When they screw up, I'm not shy about saying so. I've taken to tweeting directly to @TimCook on Twitter to let him know that I'm not happy about Apple's failure to fix SMB and I've complained about here as well. I've also very recently expressed my annoyance with Apple for continuing on with the iMac even though it's clearly time to move on to something new.

But Siri is not nearly as bad as you make it sound.

And frankly, I'm not sure what to respond to in your post as you've ranted a bit but given not one concrete example of where Siri fails you. You say it's limited. You say it's not a real assistant. You compare it to Cortana and Google Now. Give me some examples.

I have no complaints about Siri as it is. I can send texts and email completely hands-free using Siri. I can have Siri read back texts and emails. I can have Siri start applications, play specific songs or album, set reminders, set timers, set alarms, and tons of other things I discovered on a routine basis, including looking up just about any information I need. That last one is huge. Yesterday after reading some whining here on Macrumors, I got in the car, set my phone on the passenger seat and started off with a series of random questions. ("Hey Siri, when was President Obama born?" "Hey Siri, how tall is Mount Baker?" "Hey Siri, how many calories in a banana." etc., and she had answers for me. The only one I stumped her with out of two dozen queries was when I asked for a good chicken parmesan recipe, and in lieu of an actual answer, she pulled up web results which, if I hadn't been driving, would have actually been perfectly acceptable.

I realize there's a whole lot more Siri could be doing but, for me, it covers my demands and occasionally surprises me with ones I didn't know it could handle.

So, I'm curious to hear what you have to say and willing to take you seriously (even though your posting history makes me suspect you only joined to troll.) So, specifically, what are you trying to use Siri for that marks it as such a failure in your book?

Siri - far too often for an inquiry it will tell me it doesn't have that information but here are some ...., give me a result for something totally different. Has trouble initiating a text/call if the contact has more than one mobile number. Be in hands free mode and she gives results you have to read on a screen. Gives an address to a query that is frequently wrong unless you have the exact correct name ....

Siri was better at looking up information before Apple bought it. Was "Google Like" with the results. Apple added a lot to Siri however I find "her" to be simplistic and frequently "dumb" when it comes to executing tasks.

The worst; Siri is tied specifically to Apple only. Based on what I have personally seen and experienced with Siri, I would offer up she is more like Apple's red headed step-child and Apple really doesn't know what to do with her so they keep tossing her into the mix. They really don't do much to improve her.

It is for reasons like these that I use Google Now. It is cross platform, anticipates lots of informational needs, understands my spoken verbiage very well, executes tasks, and gives great results. I've tried Cortana and it isn't bad. Definitely better than Siri.

Siri: love, hate, or indifference. She is definitely on my indifference list.

 

[firewood]

Apple's problem is that they don't have enough layers of security on one side. They certainly have enough layers on the internal secret side. But they appear not to have enough layers on the open side to allow a suitable number of employees to communicate and collaborate deeply with outside researchers (the kind who don't want to work in hiding in secret labs). This means that companies that do employ people who talk a lot with advanced and open research types outside Apple find out new discoveries first. That may have been what's happened with the very latest research on and applications of deep learning technology. Google and Microsoft engineers jumped on this stuff first, and thus appear to be way ahead of Apple in intelligent chatbot type stuff.

 

[inkswamp]

Siri - far too often for an inquiry it will tell me it doesn't have that information but here are some ...., give me a result for something totally different.

I never encounter that. Ever.

Has trouble initiating a text/call if the contact has more than one mobile number.

I just checked and none of my frequent contacts have multiple mobile numbers. What happens when you try this?

Be in hands free mode and she gives results you have to read on a screen.

This is wrong. In the test I did yesterday in my car, Siri read back all responses to me. I went through about 2 dozen trivial inquiries and all were read back until I asked for the recipe which just pulled up a list.

Gives an address to a query that is frequently wrong unless you have the exact correct name ....

Also wrong. I frequently asked for directions to places without the address. Siri can find it and give you directions.

Siri was better at looking up information before Apple bought it. Was "Google Like" with the results. Apple added a lot to Siri however I find "her" to be simplistic and frequently "dumb" when it comes to executing tasks.

Perhaps they changed the back-end from Google results to some other search engine. Who knows. I can't remember the last time I asked Siri for search results that she failed to retrieve.

The worst; Siri is tied specifically to Apple only. Based on what I have personally seen and experienced with Siri, I would offer up she is more like Apple's red headed step-child and Apple really doesn't know what to do with her so they keep tossing her into the mix. They really don't do much to improve her.

Cortana and Google Now are also tied to their platforms. What does this criticism even mean? This is my gripe with Siri complaints--no specifics. Just carping about it being "bad." What do you mean by "tied specifically to Apple only?" That phrase actually means nothing in the context you're using it.

It is for reasons like these that I use Google Now. It is cross platform, anticipates lots of informational needs, understands my spoken verbiage very well, executes tasks, and gives great results. I've tried Cortana and it isn't bad. Definitely better than Siri.

I'm open to hearing this but again, this is vague and non-specific. What does Siri fail to do that Google Now and Cortana are so great at? I hear the griping, never the specific examples.


EDIT: This page appears to contradict what you're saying about Siri not being able to call someone with multiple phone numbers.

EDIT: I also just tested asking for directions to Safeway in my hometown. Pulled up directions without me knowing the specific address. Also contradicts what you just said.

 

[freepomme]

First off, I'm not an Apple fanboy. I think they produce some of the best products in tech so I own some of their products but I'm no fanboy. When they screw up, I'm not shy about saying so. I've taken to tweeting directly to Tim Cook on Twitter to let him know that I'm not happy about Apple's failure to fix SMB and I've complained about that here as well. I've also very recently expressed my annoyance with Apple for continuing on with the iMac even though it's clearly time to move on to something new.

But Siri is not nearly as bad as you make it sound.

And frankly, I'm not sure what to respond to in your post as you've ranted a bit but given not one concrete example of where Siri fails you. You say it's limited. You say it's not a real assistant. You compare it to Cortana and Google Now. Give me some examples.

I have no complaints about Siri as it is. I can send texts and email completely hands-free using Siri. I can have Siri read back texts and emails. I can have Siri start applications, play specific songs or album, set reminders, set timers, set alarms, and tons of other things I discovered on a routine basis, including looking up just about any information I need.

That last one is huge. Yesterday after reading some whining here on Macrumors, I got in the car, set my phone on the passenger seat and started off with a series of random questions. "Hey Siri, when was President Obama born?" "Hey Siri, how tall is Mount Baker?" "Hey Siri, how many calories in a banana." etc., and she had answers for me. The only one I stumped her with out of two dozen queries was when I asked for a good chicken parmesan recipe, and in lieu of an actual answer, she pulled up web results which, if I hadn't been driving, would have actually been perfectly acceptable.

I realize there's a whole lot more Siri could be doing but, for me, it covers my demands and occasionally surprises me with ones I didn't know it could handle.

So, I'm curious to hear what you have to say and I'm willing to take you seriously (even though your posting history makes me suspect you only joined to troll.) So, specifically, what are you trying to use Siri for that marks it as such a failure in your book?

Oh I'll tell you.

All I was saying was I wanted Siri to be proactive instead of reactionary. I don't actually go to Siri for the information, Siri just puts what you said into Bing. That's voice control.

Siri should be proactive.

Google Now already gives you traffic updates so that you won't be surprised on your commute. Siri doesn't do that.

There's plenty of more helpful things Siri could be doing. During Siri's first promotions in 2011 with the iPhone 4s, they made it a point to say that you could ask Siri if you would be needing an umbrella, then Siri would respond if you did or not. There's nothing advanced happening there, it's just another way that Siri reads off what the weather currently is. She can't tell you any of that information beforehand or use it to your advantage.

Meanwhile, Google Now is already handing you packets of information on topics it knows you want to know about. It doesn't have to speak, but it does push. The information is there. If only Siri could do that. It's the only way that people will make use of a digital assistant, it's the only way people will want to interact with it. Not constantly having to shout commands.

Siri is more of a conduit and a directory service currently. And everyone just wants to get past that. Siri should be able to make plans. Siri should have good ideas to set things up. Siri should notify you if your schedule isn't up to snuff. I know you'll say that sounds ridiculous, but that's what people want. If Siri can't start doing this kind of stuff, then people will stop using it. I haven't actually used Cortana extensively, but I like it for the simple fact that it has personal settings. It's trying to be proactive. Siri doesn't even try.

But I can't tell if Apple is purposely leaving out that kind of functionality, or if they just don't have the capability to do that

Again, Siri is very rigid. Contrary to what Apple has said about it, it is very machine-like, difficult to work with, unnatural.

The more that Siri can do, the more room for error and for mistakes, but what I suggest is to give Siri a basic set of proactive abilities so that it does have more structure and loosen up some of that rigidity and mindlessness that Siri has.

It's actually embarrassing just how much Apple is behind to their competitors.

 

[kdarling]

I have no complaints about Siri as it is. I can send texts and email completely hands-free using Siri. I can have Siri read back texts and emails. I can have Siri start applications, play specific songs or album, set reminders, set timers, set alarms, and tons of other things I discovered on a routine basis, including looking up just about any information I need.

Of course, none of that is AI. It's just voice control.

 

[freepomme]

Of course, none of that is AI. It's just voice control.

They've pulled back on advertising Siri as an artificial intelligence. They were really pushing that in 2011, but now they're more realistic about what it is.

 

[maxsix]

Speculative at best.

With $206B in the bank Apple could hire whoever they want, or buy their companies outright. And that's precisely what is happening right now.

With $206 B in the bank Apple does what Apple wants. Some of which is excellent and some rather bizarre and nonsensical.

No matter what, the pile of cash Apple has is enough to allow them to carry on in nearly any fashion they wish... For years.

Make no mistake, Apple will exist for years.

 

[applezulu]

Oh I'll tell you.

All I was saying was I wanted Siri to be proactive instead of reactionary. I don't actually go to Siri for the information, Siri just puts what you said into Bing. That's voice control.

Siri should be proactive.

Google Now already gives you traffic updates so that you won't be surprised on your commute. Siri doesn't do that.

There's plenty of more helpful things Siri could be doing. During Siri's first promotions in 2011 with the iPhone 4s, they made it a point to say that you could ask Siri if you would be needing an umbrella, then Siri would respond if you did or not. There's nothing advanced happening there, it's just another way that Siri reads off what the weather currently is. She can't tell you any of that information beforehand or use it to your advantage.

Meanwhile, Google Now is already handing you packets of information on topics it knows you want to know about. It doesn't have to speak, but it does push. The information is there. If only Siri could do that. It's the only way that people will make use of a digital assistant, it's the only way people will want to interact with it. Not constantly having to shout commands.

Siri is more of a conduit and a directory service currently. And everyone just wants to get past that. Siri should be able to make plans. Siri should have good ideas to set things up. Siri should notify you if your schedule isn't up to snuff. I know you'll say that sounds ridiculous, but that's what people want. If Siri can't start doing this kind of stuff, then people will stop using it. I haven't actually used Cortana extensively, but I like it for the simple fact that it has personal settings. It's trying to be proactive. Siri doesn't even try.

But I can't tell if Apple is purposely leaving out that kind of functionality, or if they just don't have the capability to do that

Again, Siri is very rigid. Contrary to what Apple has said about it, it is very machine-like, difficult to work with, unnatural.

The more that Siri can do, the more room for error and for mistakes, but what I suggest is to give Siri a basic set of proactive abilities so that it does have more structure and loosen up some of that rigidity and mindlessness that Siri has.

It's actually embarrassing just how much Apple is behind to their competitors.

Let's anthropomorphize for just a moment. You're looking at the resumes of two people that you are considering hiring as your personal assistant. The first one appears to have some personality but seems a little bit literal in her capabilities. If you hire her she will probably be a "just the facts" kind of assistant. When you ask her about her qualifications, she says that she will work just for you, and will learn more and get better at her job moving into the future.

The other candidate that you're considering promises to anticipate your every need and give you answers almost before you even ask them. Then you start looking at her resume, and you notice that she is currently employed by a lot of other people, and she tells you that while she plans to continue working for all those other employers, the great benefit to you is that since they are already paying her, she will work for you for free! Then you notice that even though you haven't hired her yet, she is already going through all of your files and is selecting things from them and sticking some things into her briefcase, and scanning others and sending them off to her various other employers. You ask her what she's doing, and she winks at you and says, "getting ready to anticipate your every need!"

Which personal assistant do you really want to hire?

 

[dk001]

....

It's interesting. After seeing your reply, thinking I may be missing something, I turned on Siri on my 6S+ yesterday and took her for a stroll.

• Had her call a contact by name and she dialed the first mobile number. If I spell out the alternate mobile number she dials it. I tried adding a custom label (ex: Mobile 2) and she didn't recognize the custom label. Weird
• I asked Siri for the route to Vons (our Safeway). She gave me the shortest distance route. When I asked for the route with the quickest time, she gave me the time for the initial route she selected.
  • A side note. When I looked at the Vons she selected, it was the closest, not the one I normally shop at. I have 5 within 5 miles of me. It was never offered nor indicated that other Vons were nearby.
• I asked Siri for the public transportation route to my local Petsmart. She could not find that.
  • If executed by hand, Apple Maps indicates that this service is not available in my area (West LA) for the indicated destination. Why couldn't Siri tell me that?
• The original Siri used Wolfram Alpha for most information lookup if I remember correctly
• I asked Siri for a local medical clinic - she gave me a readable list. Didn't read it to me. When I looked at the list I was I was unable to determine her logic for the order. Not alphabetical, not distance, not rating, ... I literally couldn't tell
• I asked her to set up an appointment for me. She set the time and participants up nicely but totally botched the verbally dictated Notes I wanted included.
• She did a great job giving me the weather and forecast when I asked; from the stock Apple app. When I asked for the weather from BeWeather (more accurate for me) she was at a loss.

The great thing with Google Now and built in OK Google, it that it lets me know if I have more than one option (like Mobile number) and will let you verbally select. I can select my destination from a offered list and indicate distance, time, traffic, no-freeway, etc... I can get a destination and travel incorporating drive/public/walk.

Siri might be much better than my experience and I was looking for her to fail. A bit jaded I guess. There may be hidden tips and tricks, or key words and phrases that she requires to work her best. Unfortunately, she has let me down at critical times in the past and I choose to no longer trust her. For me Google Now has been very good, very accurate and is my current tool of choice.

 

[kdarling]

Let's anthropomorphize for just a moment.
...

Then you notice that even though you haven't hired her yet, she is already going through all of your files and is selecting things from them and sticking some things into her briefcase, and scanning others and sending them off to her various other employers.

Except that Google doesn't send anything to others, so that's a false scenario.

It's more like this assistant is learning what you like, and using that info to sort your unsolicited mail so that she only shows you ones with products that match your interests.

And she'll do that and everything else, remembering your particular interests and conversation history with her, no matter where you are or what device you're using.

Whereas the other assistant has a stunted memory of you, and thinks you're a different person even when you simply switch between your phone and tablet!

 

[dk001]

Oh I'll tell you.

...

Siri is more of a conduit and a directory service currently. And everyone just wants to get past that. Siri should be able to make plans. Siri should have good ideas to set things up. Siri should notify you if your schedule isn't up to snuff. I know you'll say that sounds ridiculous, but that's what people want. If Siri can't start doing this kind of stuff, then people will stop using it. I haven't actually used Cortana extensively, but I like it for the simple fact that it has personal settings. It's trying to be proactive. Siri doesn't even try.

....

That is the meat in the nutshell. Very well said.

 

[dk001]

They've pulled back on advertising Siri as an artificial intelligence. They were really pushing that in 2011, but now they're more realistic about what it is.

Makes me wonder about the new Apple TV 4. Watching a demo this weekend, Siri sounded and acted like the Siri from a couple of generations back. New Knock-Off Siri?

Let's anthropomorphize for just a moment. You're looking at the resumes of two people that you are considering hiring as your personal assistant. The first one appears to have some personality but seems a little bit literal in her capabilities. If you hire her she will probably be a "just the facts" kind of assistant. When you ask her about her qualifications, she says that she will work just for you, and will learn more and get better at her job moving into the future.

The other candidate that you're considering promises to anticipate your every need and give you answers almost before you even ask them. Then you start looking at her resume, and you notice that she is currently employed by a lot of other people, and she tells you that while she plans to continue working for all those other employers, the great benefit to you is that since they are already paying her, she will work for you for free! Then you notice that even though you haven't hired her yet, she is already going through all of your files and is selecting things from them and sticking some things into her briefcase, and scanning others and sending them off to her various other employers. You ask her what she's doing, and she winks at you and says, "getting ready to anticipate your every need!"

Which personal assistant do you really want to hire?

I'll take the second one - I need anticipation not reaction. The first is a secretary/intern, not a PA. If I need a dedicated full time PA, I'll keep looking.

 

[dk001]

Please delete ....

 

[applezulu]

Except that Google doesn't send anything to others, so that's a false scenario.

It's more like this assistant is learning what you like, and using that info to sort your unsolicited mail so that she only shows you ones with products that match your interests.

And she'll do that and everything else, remembering your particular interests and conversation history with her, no matter where you are or what device you're using.

Whereas the other assistant has a stunted memory of you, and thinks you're a different person even when you simply switch between your phone and tablet!

More correctly, Google sends you to its advertisers, and its advertisers to you. To Tim Cook's point, the advertisers are Google's customers, and you are the product. To be sure, Google is highly motivated to compile all the data it can about you and use that to anticipate your needs. Much of the time, this will mutually benefit both you and their advertisers, but don't fool yourself. That convenience is there to conveniently nudge you toward their paying customers. Likewise, their AI development is being done in service of that business model. Tajima cattle live luxurious lives on Japanese farms, but it's not because the Kobe Beef Association sees them as inherently deserving of free pampering for no apparent reason.

Siri is far from perfect, but I'd prefer to see how it develops, with me as the customer, rather than the product.

 

[freepomme]

More correctly, Google sends you to its advertisers, and its advertisers to you. To Tim Cook's point, the advertisers are Google's customers, and you are the product. To be sure, Google is highly motivated to compile all the data it can about you and use that to anticipate your needs. Much of the time, this will mutually benefit both you and their advertisers, but don't fool yourself. That convenience is there to conveniently nudge you toward their paying customers. Likewise, their AI development is being done in service of that business model. Tajima cattle live luxurious lives on Japanese farms, but it's not because the Kobe Beef Association sees them as inherently deserving of free pampering for no apparent reason.

Siri is far from perfect, but I'd prefer to see how it develops, with me as the customer, rather than the product.

I don't see what's wrong with that. I was comparing the two services the other day thinking to myself,

Google knows so much about me. ...That's because it's Google. They know everything. That's how they do it. Man, Apple doesn't have anything on this.

And they really don't. Siri doesn't have access to any of the things that would make her personally helpful. She knows nothing. ¯\(°_O)/¯

I could post screenshots. Google's proactivity vs the Siri suggestions Apple recently implemented into iOS 9 is like day and night.

Apple doesn't know what they're doing. What even IS Siri suggestions? It's so irrelevant that I actually had to turn it off.

 

[dk001]

...

Siri is far from perfect, but I'd prefer to see how it develops, with me as the customer, rather than the product.

I think that is one of the concerns. From pre-Apple Siri to initial-Apple Siri to today-Siri, she really hasn't evolved much. A little better, a little more functional, understands a bit better, but even Cortana has passed her by.
Based on history, it looks like it's going to be a long wait.

At this juncture, I don't see Siri ever evolving into an AI type entity.
At least not without a serious make-over.

 

[applezulu]

I don't see what's wrong with that. I was comparing the two services the other day thinking to myself,

Google knows so much about me. ...That's because it's Google. They know everything. That's how they do it. Man, Apple doesn't have anything on this.

...

And you know, good for you. You're clearly not the only one who is ok with that.

When I'm at a store in meat space at the register paying in cash, when the clerk asks if he can have my phone number, I politely decline. I've done that since the days when Radio Shack was the only one asking. I know in this day and age it's almost impossible to avoid Big Data. When I have the option, though, I'll deprive it of a data point or two. I may be spitting in the wind, but it makes me feel better. A lot of people will cough up personal data without even wondering what they're getting for it.

Sounds like maybe you're ok with all that for yourself. Personally, I don't mind thinking for myself what I might want next, and using Siri or a tactile interface with my iPhone to get to it. But that's just me.

Luckily for both of us, there's a competitive market where both options exist, so you know, have at it.

 

[kdarling]

More correctly, Google sends you to its advertisers, and its advertisers to you.

Well, no, they don't send you to the advertisers. That would negate the whole value of keeping private data secret. Instead, they sell an anonymous ad spot to advertisers who have checked off certain target demographics. Just like Apple does with iAds.

To Tim Cook's point, the advertisers are Google's customers, and you are the product.

Yes, Cook likes to say disingenuous stuff like that, even though Apple also sells its own customers as a product.

- First off, there's iAds, where Apple directly uses the private data it has collected about its customers to sell ad slots... just like Google does. iAds alone throws his comments about others totally out the window.

- Then there's the indirect ways that Apple sells its customers to others. A good example is how Apple has been getting a billion dollars a year from Google to let it be the default iOS search engine. So while Cook mocks free internet services, Apple hypocritically profits by actually selling Google access to their customers' search data.

 

[duffman9000]

Few sciences can make revolutionary advances by putting a few people in a closed off room, regardless of what movies might lead you to think. If Apple withdraws from the discourse, it almost inevitably will face a future of playing catch-up, not being at the cutting edge.

I think Apple is already playing catch up. Apple Map's AI is 'dumb' compared to what Google is using in Google Maps. It isn't even a contest right now. I have to believe Apple compares Siri to competitors. I hope honest managers say it sucks compared to competitors. It's taken so long to improve that either it's not going to improve due to the lack of data (and the associated privacy implications) or the lack of talent at Apple.

 

[dk001]

I think Apple is already playing catch up. Apple Map's AI is 'dumb' compared to what Google is using in Google Maps. It isn't even a contest right now. I have to believe Apple compares Siri to competitors. I hope honest managers say it sucks compared to competitors. It's taken so long to improve that either it's not going to improve due to the lack of data (and the associated privacy implications) or the lack of talent at Apple.

Makes me wonder if Apple didn't have a solution in development to radically improve Siri.
Then said solution took a dump leaving Scarecrow Siri.

 

[freepomme]

I think Apple is already playing catch up. Apple Map's AI is 'dumb' compared to what Google is using in Google Maps. It isn't even a contest right now. I have to believe Apple compares Siri to competitors. I hope honest managers say it sucks compared to competitors. It's taken so long to improve that either it's not going to improve due to the lack of data (and the associated privacy implications) or the lack of talent at Apple.

That's where we're at.

Even though Google Now and Cortana is better, people like me actually still like Siri and use it more. I know it sounds crazy but it's just something about the way that Siri works that makes it more fun to use even though it doesn't get everything right or provide the most useful information.

I think it's because Google Now doesn't talk. And Cortana isn't that like able as a person. Neither of them have the personality that Siri has. That's important.

I'm actually surprised at how much Apple Maps has improved since it was released. And I'm sure Apple has something up it's sleeve for Siri.

They know something that we don't know. Does Siri really need to have access to a Google-like personal information to be more useful or helpful? Or can it be more intelligent using some other indexing method?

Siri is little league right now. The technology isn't that advanced. For Siri to be changed in a significant way means that they'd have to invest majorly into Siri research and development.

Siri is technology that needs to be improved in the longhaul. It all has to work together.

 

[dk001]

That's where we're at.
...

Siri is little league right now. The technology isn't that advanced. For Siri to be changed in a significant way means that they'd have to invest majorly into Siri research and development.

Siri is technology that needs to be improved in the longhaul. It all has to work together.

I agree in the "little league" and "needs to be improved" aspects. The troubling aspect is that in the last 4+ years that Apple has had Siri, the improvements have been minuscule in comparison to it's peers. Apple has done very little in "evolutionary" terms with Siri. RHSC.