Apple's Dashboard Widgets

[DGFan]

Not THAT's nice!

* Widgets in Flash

* Widgets from Dreamweaver (make your own interactive reference info easily)
>snippy<
* Widgets all kinds of ways from people who don't know JS

It's enough to make me want to kill myself.

 

[DGFan]

Konfabulator doesn't come close to what Dashboard offers. I found Konfabulator to be completley useless. Either the widgets have to be on top of everything else or on the bottom. Neither one is very practical if you have much stuff going on. With Dashboard, the widgets can be hidden and then appear with a keystroke. That's infinitely more useful.

You realize that K will have this feature within, like, a week don't you? Enough people have asked for it that it's going to happen.

 

[iChan]

Hey, you. Yeah, the guy who decided to come to the party late so he could make an entrance. We've been there. We've done that. You missed it. We're moving on.

-hertz

woah there, calm down...

 

[DGFan]

His perspective is that the two do the same thing, but Dashboard does it in a different way that's simpler, more open and more flexible. And if that's the case, why should users complainer when Apple "crushes" third party developers by doing it in a simpler, better and probably faster way?

If Konfabulator gets the HTML capabilities it is possible to add (apparently they're in internal testing on that part) then K will be much more flexible. Personally, I'd much rather deal with XML and provide JS action handlers than muck around setting up CSS and JS handlers. Konfabulator's layout is much more developer friendly. But there are advantages (Flash *shudder*) to HTML and I do hope Konfabulator adds them eventually.

 

[DGFan]

If you don't read anything else, read the last couple of paragraphs; he explains what's so cool about Dashboard (anybody can use it--an open framework with easy-to-write applets that use nothing but existing languages), rather than the semi-closed, pay-to-use structure of Konfabulator.

Not really sure what you're talking about here. Konfabulator uses XML and Javascript. The developers documentation (which defines the XML tags and JS methods/variables available) is a free download. The only "closed" part is you have to pay for Konfabulator to use the widgets. Well, guess what? You have to pay for Dashboard too! Tiger aint free.

 

[dongmin]

You may have answered yoru own question.. Flipping stickies may use flash for the effect...

According to Apple:

Leave No Widget Unturned
Elegantly designed Dashboard accessories animate in cool and interesting ways using the new Core Image technology built into Tiger. To change the color or font for a sticky note, flip the note around — all Widgets controls are on the back to keep them out of sight until you need them. Configuring your Widgets is fun, too.

So the flipping (as well as the ripple effect) is done with Core Image. All widgets can be animated using Core Image.

 

[GRAHAMUK]

I feel for those guys, but...

I do feel a bit sorry for the Konfabulator guys, and it wouldn't have hurt Apple to have at least talked to them before wiping out their product - shades of the old arrogant Apple coming back - I hope it's not a trend.

That said, it seems Dashboard goes beyond Konfabulator quite a bit, and neatly solves the clutter problem that I found with K. There is one issue though, and that is bugginess - I eventually dumped K. because most of the widgets that I actually found of any use (I mean, how many clocks does a person really need?) were often really buggy and would hang or crash the K. shell.

By putting the ability to craete widgets in the hands of non-programmers, I hope that it won't lead to a layer of instability which will degrade the platform as a whole. Of course the same argument applies to apps, but by the time you know enough to create an app, you should know enough to avoid the most obvious bugs.

On another note - the flipping windows are very neat, and a really excellent metaphor. I'm assuming though that it's leveraging OpenGL rather than a web technology, which in turn implies a "flip window" API in Tiger. It's unclear how you access this from a widget, though the demo clearly works! Interesting.

 

[rsa]

One good thing that can come out of this for the Konfabulator team is that... Windows people secretly want what Mac people have. They already have a start on a Windows version of Konfabulator. I think. I haven't read too much into it. But you know when you show your Windows friend Dashboard they'll immediately knock it and in a week have Konfabulator Windows version installed showing that they can do it to. It could be very beneficial to Konfabulator in that aspect.

At the moment, there are lots of cool widget for Windows ( similar to Konfabulator). Check out www.samurize.com


RSA

 

[synotic]

By putting the ability to craete widgets in the hands of non-programmers, I hope that it won't lead to a layer of instability which will degrade the platform as a whole. Of course the same argument applies to apps, but by the time you know enough to create an app, you should know enough to avoid the most obvious bugs.

Highly unlikely. Most "non-programmers" will probably create the widgets in the html/js/css mode. If someone could create a problem with a widget that means that there is a problem with JS and as far as I know, there hasn't been an exploit of Safari yet. With Cocoa on the other hand, it's not in as such a controlled environement. Even then, I somehow doubt that the crash of one widget would take down Dashboard, Apple already knows how to deal with multiple processes.

 

[encro]

I do feel a bit sorry for the Konfabulator guys, and it wouldn't have hurt Apple to have at least talked to them before wiping out their product - shades of the old arrogant Apple coming back - I hope it's not a trend.

Read half way down this article under the heading: Not So Rosy: http://billpalmer.net/com000238.html

It's clear that the relationship between Arlo Rose/Perry Clarke & Apple has been edgy for quite a few years prior to OS X. Apple won't work with someone who has tried to deliberately do the wrong thing.

 

[cb911]

this is such good news!! now all web-designers and developers can become 'widget developers'!

this is going to be awesome... imagine being able to have your showreel displayed as a widget! sweet!

 

[brooklyn]

Apple should call Mac OS-X 10.4 Kon-Tiger-lator...

 

[Analog Kid]

Not THAT's nice!

* Widgets in Flash

* Widgets from Dreamweaver (make your own interactive reference info easily)

* HTML manuals or saved sites to refer to

* Widgets all kinds of ways from people who don't know JS

Ohhhh.... JavaScript...

I read this the first time and took J to mean Jack...

 

[rockman2023]

It's good to know that this is written on an existing technology. That really opens it up quite a bit. This will allow code ninjas like myself (a web designer) to build nearly anything. Pretty sweet.

I DEFINETLY hear you on that one.

Lets just hope Flash will run faster on our Macs by the time Tiger rolls around.

<drool>Imagine.....Flash.....Dashboard....</drool>

 

[Analog Kid]

(I wonder how you get the eye candy from JS? Like the flipping stickies? And I wonder where alpha control comes from? ...)

I would guess that both come from the application hosting the web-pane. Same way Safari could be written to flip itself around or go transparent, the window holding the WebKit content in Desktop can do the same.

 

[Analog Kid]

I DEFINETLY hear you on that one.

Lets just hope Flash will run faster on our Macs by the time Tiger rolls around.

<drool>Imagine.....Flash.....Dashboard....</drool>

Ok, I'm getting a very strong feeling that Apple better offer a Dashboard like environment for real apps... We're just going to get flooded with widgets by people who finally feel they can release their creative muse...

 

[Analog Kid]

Wonder if Apple will be releasing a web development suite anytime soon-- like Frontpage, Pagemill or Go Live... Sounds like it would be a good time for one.

 

[sdf]

I wish.

But what is David Hyatt's connection to Dashboard? I thought he just worked on Safari?

I think David Hyatt works on WebCore, not Safari per se.

 

[Natron]

Wonder if Apple will be releasing a web development suite anytime soon-- like Frontpage, Pagemill or Go Live... Sounds like it would be a good time for one.

Check out BlogStudio (http://www.littlehj.com), it's the closest thing to what I want in an Apple web app.

Now, if I could just get that iTunes for video app I've been wanting (from Apple).

 

[interlard]

Apple's Dashboard Widgets

Thanks to David's blog I don't know what to think anymore.

Visually, they are similar. But I now agree that Dashboard uses much better technology than Konfab. Apple were right not to buy it (IMHO). HTML is way easier than the XML that Konfab needs. And the memory usage of Konfabulator is just shamefull:

I have the basic weather widget open and Activity Monitor says I have 2 Konfabulator processes running, taking 7.4 MB and 9 MB of RAM. Now get this, they each use up about 145 MB of Virtual Memory EACH!!​

David claims Apple's Dashboard is much more memory efficient and was inspired by the original desk accessories from 1984. We will have to wait and see if the efficiency thing is true, but enjoy this historical snippet:

They nearly left the sliding puzzle accessory out because it took up 6 KB, so Andy Hertzfeld re-wrote it in assembler to around 600 bytes. Now THAT'S what I call efficient. I don't think one of these smiles is even that small. ​

 

[nagromme]

It's GOOD not to shut out non-programmers

... By putting the ability to craete widgets in the hands of non-programmers, I hope that it won't lead to a layer of instability which will degrade the platform as a whole. Of course the same argument applies to apps, but by the time you know enough to create an app, you should know enough to avoid the most obvious bugs.

I'm afraid there's going to be a small wave of people thinking Dashboard power should be kept away from most people and reserved only for a "qualified elite." My counter-arguments:

* If amateurs are making widgets, that doesn't mean you'll be forced to download and install them, any more than you are forced to use buggy shareware.

* Many "non-programmers" will make useful widgets for their OWN needs, not for the larger community. Very useful!

* This is all much like AppleScript--which assuredly can do some VERY powerful things in the wrong hands, as can other programming environments. Yet AppleScript is a wonderful tool for non-programmers. Automator even more so. Dashboard won't be a bad thing anymore than those are.

* Apple can control what Dashboard is allowed to do easily. If it's easy to accidentally make a widget that does harm--destabilizing the whole system!--I expect Apple will address that. Again, AppleScript hasn't hurt the platform.

* If these are just web pages in essence, then those same people could just make web pages instead This is just displaying them differently. Doesn't sound like such a dire addition to me.

In short... widgets being easy to make is a GOOD THING. Meanwhile, the most sophisticated ones will still come from "programmers."

Ohhhh.... JavaScript...
I read this the first time and took J to mean Jack...

Dangerous things, acronyms

 

[socbyset]

I think David Hyatt works on WebCore, not Safari per se.

If you read his blog it seems pretty clear that he is the lead for Safari as well as WebCore..

 

[dangil]

Apple, 1998 called, they want their Active Desktop Back

this is SO 1998 that my Spice Girls CDs are poping right out of their CD cases. poltergeist style !

next : channels !

 

[DeadEye686]

Dave Hyatt's gettin' in on the action, too

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/hyatt/index.html

 

[fabsgwu]

as well as konfabulator itself. they can't compete with apple and their CoreGraphics magic.

Uh, actually Arlo will be able to integrate CoreGraphics into Konfab, its good for everyone, hence they're giving the SDK to developers.

Besides, there's still the niche for people who want their widgets around all the time: there's over 600 already developed for Konfab as we speak, nothing to sneeze at.