Apple's Designers Clashing Over 'Tacky' Software Skeuomorphisms

[johncarync]

iCal and People with OCD

Am I the only one who continually wants to rip off the bits left from the previous month's calendar sheet in iCal?

We need themes like we had in Mac OS 8.

 

[MartiNZ]

I've often felt Garage Band was an excellent example of these so called "skeumorphisms" done well.

I have -excused- Garageband because it is not built in and can be ignored. The iCal and Address Book GUIs made it all the easier to move to Windows - and I agree with the bit in the OP about Windows 8 getting it right more so. As well as getting it right in the area of version control - it is totally opt-in, and I can just carry on without the evil triumvirate of resume/autosave/versions now in OS X.

 

[bdkennedy1]

I'm with Jonny. Why mimic something that's not tangible? Someone at Apple needs to walk over to Scott Forstall and show him Microsoft BOB from 1995.

 

[tiptopp]

As a design I would say putting things like the leather calendar and tearing off pages looks like crap.

And I would say it doesn't. So who is right?

 

[jtrenda33]

I am fine with Game Center, but please change the osX versions of iCal and Address Book. I didn't upgrade to lion for this reason, and now that my new Air comes with it I want to vomit every time I see it.

what a great reason to not upgrade

 

[Rogifan]

My 75 year old mother uses a Nook and has no trouble finding her books. She doesn't need a fake wood bookshelf or animated pages turning to find or read her books. I can understand needing some personality but the faux leather, wood and green felt has got to go.

 

[tiptopp]

I like the tiny details. It just shows how much extra detail goes into the OS. Instead of making it too technologic, it makes it very organic, I believe Steve Jobs would have wanted that. I think it gives visual cues to tell you what you are currently doing.

I don't think of it as tacky. If anything, it's minimal and optimal.

This. Sense. Thank you.

 

[jtrenda33]

And I would say it doesn't. So who is right?

I would also say it does not. so we are right.

 

[redhanded]

The iPhone podcast app reel-to-reel tape design is truly dreadful. I could live with it is the app actually worked well, but it doesn't. It is a poorly designed buggy piece of crap.

If Apple has embraced tape for podcasts, what comes next? iTunes redesigned as a record player?

 

[Bahamut Eos]

I hate the flip the page to get between groups, and people in those groups in address book. I don't really care what it looks like as long as it works well, and that doesn't.

Also ical is kind of ugly and out of place, but it works well so whatever.

 

[Torrijos]

Team Ive!!!

I hate skeuomorphisms! The worst case being Address book!
It lost so much usability since Lion with the need to switch back a page to access groups.

This is one of the only scary things at Apple after the death of Jobs.
I fear that Forestall influence might become to important in others domains and while he seems to be an amazing engineer, he should leave design an GUIs to others.

 

[blouis79]

[...]Making things on the screen work like they do in the "real world" has always been an Apple trademark. Why all the fuss about something that helps people connect more naturally and intutively?

That's the advantage of the technique - familiarity means people's brains don't have to learn some completely new metaphor concocted in a designers head to figure out how to make something work.

OTOH, things like the iBooks bookshelf don't work so well like a library shelf.

Personally, I'd be happy for an Ive version of modernist minimalistic skeuomorphisms.

 

[cvaldes]

I like the tiny details. It just shows how much extra detail goes into the OS. Instead of making it too technologic, it makes it very organic, I believe Steve Jobs would have wanted that. I think it gives visual cues to tell you what you are currently doing.

I don't think of it as tacky. If anything, it's minimal and optimal.

That's precisely the argument against it.

They don't really help. Go ahead and enter an appointment on the Calendar via OS X Lion/Mountain Lion, and iPhone or an iPad. The iPhone Calendar app has no skeuomorphisms, yet the events are just as easily entered as the "leather-bound" iPad or OS X Lion/Mountain Lion applications.

There's no benefit to the decoration. Same with the page turning animation.

That's what some of Apple designers are arguing. Having the iPad Notes app look like a leather folio in landscape doesn't make it a more useful or efficient app. Worse, fancier animations probably take a few more CPU cycles.

Sadly, the option to turn off most of these skeuomorphisms is missing. That's the real mistake here.

Where did Apple get it (partially) right? Animated application opening in the Dock is one (you can turn it off in the Dock Preferences pane).

It's really two steps forward, one step back for Apple. The "leather bound folio" look is a step back. When Apple ditched the "brushed metal" skin, that was a step forward.

 

[rnizlek]

Is there any reason they can't just offer both and allow the user to decide which interface they prefer? Maybe that's just not the Apple way.

 

[bstpierre]

Doesn't "lipstick on a pig" imply that it was ugly in the first place, and "makeup" won't help?

The next quote seems to imply that he likes the base product just not the skeumorphic animations. Unless maybe he is saying he likes the hardware and not the software.

I agree wholeheartedly! It kind undermines the guys credibility when he doesn't get that right. He has probably never seen a shredder in real life either.

Personally, I think those touches make the product more inviting. Perhaps I am showing my advanced age (49). Sure, today's kids only know Microsoft interfaces as reality but that is no reason to adopt them in the Mac world. I am sure it will become all the rage at some point because of it being retro (or maybe retro is passe now and that is the problem?).

 

[ArcaneDevice]

I think the skeuo thing really only aggravates the nerdiest of the nerds... and you know who you are. hahahaa

Actually I think it accurately divides the user base, based on their personality and time of adoption of Apple.

Older Apple users are more likely to have design background and can see these examples attempting to emulate real-world objects as cheesy and out of place in the UI. They would be acceptable for kids who need these sort of visual identifiers to make the UI more tactile and friendly, but for any adult with any good design sensibility they stick out like a black eye on the Mona Lisa.

It also differentiates those that buy Apple purely for the cachet from those who appreciate good design and uniformity of experience, because the visual design of things like iCal and Notepad is anything but.

 

[nomore]

Skeuomorphism is great... on iOS.

For example: http://www.vinyltapapp.com or http://www.beatblaster.com

... but not on the desktop.

 

[tiptopp]

I agree with you...but don't you think that they recently went too far? The examples that you cited were "funny", "cute", "smart". Now take a look at the screenshot of podcast that has been posted in this topic. It looks like a monster from a japanese cartoon!

But it makes me smile because I used cassette tapes only after my reel-to-reel gave up!

Horses for courses...

Isn't it functionality that's more important? That's why I choose my tech...

 

[knewsom]

http://www.benetton.com/

Are you a paid poster? Did someone buy your a thesaurus for christmas?

Click on that link and you will see where MSFT got their inspiration from. If you want to use an OS that looks like a clothing store website, be my guest.

As for a shredder, I have one in my home office. A lot of people do.

PS. Search in your favourite search engine the following "swiss road signs". MSFT's main font is inspired by the swiss sign font.

HAHAHA, oh man, a paid poster??? Seriously? God man, that's the funniest thing I've heard all week. Have you noticed how long I've been a member here?

I don't think Win 8 looks much like that website, though it shares some thematic elements - there are colors, words, moving pictures and icons.

I said what I said because it's what I think. Skeuomorphism was useful in 1986, but not today; using it is like handcuffing your design team to a radiator in a building that's been condemned. Apple's been cautious lately instead of bold - Microsoft has taken the opposite approach, and it's paying off for them. I'm not a fan of "teams" - I like what I like. Apple often does things I like, though they have been known to make mistakes (such as in this instance). Sometimes Microsoft does something I like, though historically it's rarely.

If you take issue with my vernacular, then that's a different discussion altogether and not one suited to this thread. I'm an intelligent, educated man, and I both speak and write accordingly. If you don't like it, then don't read my posts.

 

[MartiNZ]

Are you kidding!? Windows 8 is absolutely awful in look and functionality. It's also absolutely useless as an operating system on anything but a tablet.

MDA

Interesting. I find that the test of a new OS is if in testing it for instance with dual boot, do you find yourself always wanting to be in the new rather than the old ... and that is certainly the case with the Windows 8 trial.

Compared to when I installed Lion on day one, and all I wanted was to reinstall Snow Leopard, and so I did within two weeks.

Compared to just Snow Leopard, from which I never dreamed of going back, even if Leopard was the only OS X that got nested sorting in dock stacks right.

I do think that when/if the 13" rMBP arrives, it will be the best machine to run both OSes on, but I'm pretty sure I'll still spend most time in Windows.

 

[happydude]

I agree with you...but don't you think that they recently went too far? The examples that you cited were "funny", "cute", "smart". Now take a look at the screenshot of podcast that has been posted in this topic. It looks like a monster from a japanese cartoon!

the podcast app is terrible no matter which way you look at it. they shoulda gone meta if they wanted skeumorphic design and showed their original ipod from 2001 if anything. but i don't know if the design or it's function are what people hate most and/or is one polluting the other? the fact the app is almost unusable probably negatively feeds into the design. if it worked seemlessly, people may have more brain space to say, oh, and what a clever design. instead hate begets hate.

not arguing for or against, personally i like the podcast design but hate the function.

 

[elppa]

We need themes like we had in Mac OS 8.

Maybe, but maybe not the themes that nearly shipped with Mac OS 8. Those are best left behind.

All companies will have internal conflict on all sorts of topics – so this is no great surprise. It wouldn't be very healthy if there wasn't conflict.

This graphic (courtesy of The Verge user brownbox) illustrates the same thing quite well (albeit slightly exaggerated). Even there, while the design language is unified: two teams working on two different products have two different interpretations:

 

[FoxMcCloud]

Mail on iPhone, iPad and Mac is great and looks modern and sleek.

Contacts and Calander on iPhone is the same. Useful and modern.
Yet on the iPad, and now Mac, these two apps have become awful to look at.

 

[iSee]

Skeuomorphisms

<rant>
Arrrgghh!! MR, WHY did you have to do it??!?
I cringe whenever I have to see the words Skeuomorphic and Skeuomorphism used by non-designers. But I hate Skeuomorphisms the most!
Why not simply Skeuomorphs???
</rant>
OK, sorry, that word just gets on my nerves.

 

[jtrenda33]

My 75 year old mother uses a Nook and has no trouble finding her books. She doesn't need a fake wood bookshelf or animated pages turning to find or read her books. I can understand needing some personality but the faux leather, wood and green felt has got to go.

i'm not sure apple has 75 year-old women in mind as their target audience, but whatever. that was also a very poor transition from iBooks to Game Center.

i happen to LOVE the way iBooks looks and behaves. i do, however, think the organization of the bookshelf inside iBooks need to be improved.

these 'little touches' are what separates apple from the rest of the market. Apple products are a result of true craftsmanship and attention to detail, hardware and software included.