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fairuz

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2017
2,486
2,589
Silicon Valley
Everyone can code, but the question is should everyone code? All this will do is flood the market with programmers and lower the wages for everyone in the field even though as Markoth said there's going to be a huge difference of code quality between all of them.

There's a good reason we don't see "Everyone can XYZ" for other job categories.
If everyone can code, everyone should code. If you want higher wages, you should have something differentiating you from the rest, not exclusionary practices.

It's nothing to worry about anyway. The reason to teach people to code is that it's going to be a common skill soon, just like how everyone uses Excel today. They aren't going to be writing apps or server logic.
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Even more problematic, the people who do the hiring likely won't be able to identify quality code. The bad programmers will get hired for knowing what a struct is, even if their code reminds one of a bird's nest.
Then don't get bad hiring managers. It's super easy to tell when someone's code sucks. And if anything, with more people knowing how to code, the actual pros will strive for better quality. I feel like there's tons of garbage code out there from years back, most of it in PHP, with even some big frameworks like Laravel encouraging it.
 
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travelsheep

macrumors 6502a
May 30, 2013
918
1,057
In Austria/Europe it's forbidden by law for corporations to advertise in schools. But then, what do we know, we don't even have mass shootings...
 

Markoth

macrumors 6502
Oct 1, 2015
490
1,400
Behind You
If everyone can code, everyone should code. If you want higher wages, you should have something differentiating you from the rest, not exclusionary practices.

It's nothing to worry about anyway. The reason to teach people to code is that it's going to be a common skill soon, just like how everyone uses Excel today. They aren't going to be writing apps or server logic.
[doublepost=1526603544][/doublepost]
Then don't get bad hiring managers. It's super easy to tell when someone's code sucks. And if anything, with more people knowing how to code, the actual pros will strive for better quality. I feel like there's tons of garbage code out there from years back, most of it in PHP, with even some big frameworks like Laravel encouraging it.
It isn't that simple. The CEO hires people below him, and very often he has no real way of knowing what kind of job they're doing. In some areas, he can know from results. Does he know that the software bugs the company has been experiencing are due to poor coding practices and not honest development mistakes that any dev would make? Nope. He also has no way of knowing if anyone under him knows more than he does, since it's typically not the CEO's job to know. So long as the dev is competent enough to keep the company going, he gets by, even if his code is terrible. That's the real world, and it's quite common.
 

ipponrg

macrumors 68020
Oct 15, 2008
2,309
2,087
What would be nice is if Apple can teach a language like Python or JavaScript that isn't proprietary to Apple so that "everyone" can contribute to the world and not just Apple.
 
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mikecorp

Suspended
Mar 20, 2008
502
341
That is so nice from Tim.o_O hashtag we love youo_O #i love Mac rumours!o_O We should hear more news like this go on! Amuse us! :confused:o_O:mad: Pity I’m missing the throw outside the green slime smiley! And yes this comment is not pointless!
 

SarcasticJoe

macrumors 6502a
Nov 5, 2013
607
221
Finland
You'd be surprised. At my co-working space we once had an iOS developer without arms and without legs. Basically just a torso with a head attached to it. He was programming iOS apps with his chin. It was some seriously inspiring stuff.

There have been various tools that allow people without the use of arms (or legs) for typing to use computers, including programming, since at least the early 1980s so I wouldn't be all that surprised to see your co-worker in action. No, my worry here is that the tools for blind kids are going to be completely non-intuitive and just frustrate the kids to no end while really hammering home the disadvantages their disability is going to cause them for the rest of their lives.

In other words my worry is that this could be a well intentioned act meant to help disadvantaged people that only frustrates them and reminds them of how disadvantaged they are. A well intentioned act that only makes the people it's supposed to help feel bad about themselves and their future.

So, because knowledge is power…
While I am relieved to hear about how much things have advanced when it comes to accessibility tools for blind people (last time I really looked into it was a bit over a decade ago) I'm still worried about the additional obstacles and how unintuitive a lot of the things you mentioned having to do are. More power to people like you who can put in the additional effort to climb all the additional hurdles that blindness puts in your way. However the worry I still have is still that most blind kids who get access to this will simply be put off by the additional hurdles (learning to program isn't easy for people with vision either) and the whole thing just becomes a source of frustration that hurts their confidence and self-image.

Again, I don't want to sound like a you-know-what, but could I make the suggestion that you break up longer messages into multiple paragraphs? Because a long post like that in a single paragraph is a tad painful to read. Just a suggestion thou as you seem to be using a speech to text system judging by how you called Perl "Pearl" with an "a".
 

D.T.

macrumors G4
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,465
Vilano Beach, FL
If everyone can code, everyone should code. If you want higher wages, you should have something differentiating you from the rest, not exclusionary practices.

Outstanding post.


What would be nice is if Apple can teach a language like Python or JavaScript that isn't proprietary to Apple so that "everyone" can contribute to the world and not just Apple.

As long as they're learning some core concepts, it'll transfer to other languages/platforms, I mean, this is mostly just for some exposure, if a kid really gets interested, there's plenty of resources to pursue this in more breadth and depth. :)


It isn't that simple. The CEO hires people below him, and very often he has no real way of knowing what kind of job they're doing. In some areas, he can know from results. Does he know that the software bugs the company has been experiencing are due to poor coding practices and not honest development mistakes that any dev would make? Nope. He also has no way of knowing if anyone under him knows more than he does, since it's typically not the CEO's job to know. So long as the dev is competent enough to keep the company going, he gets by, even if his code is terrible. That's the real world, and it's quite common.

The bold = exactly the CEO's job, seriously, any CEO worth their title would be vetting a director position that they have 100% confidence in to manage the development staff, and if it's a company so small that you've got developers reporting to the CEO, there are several mechanisms to mitigate risk (and if it's a tech company, the CEO probably has decent technical acumen).


At least that's what my 30-ish years as a [some would suggest, successful] CEO, CTO, developer, architect, writer would lead me to believe :D
 
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Markoth

macrumors 6502
Oct 1, 2015
490
1,400
Behind You
The bold = exactly the CEO's job, seriously, any CEO worth their title would be vetting a director position that they have 100% confidence in to manage the development staff, and if it's a company so small that you've got developers reporting to the CEO, there are several mechanisms to mitigate risk (and if it's a tech company, the CEO probably has decent technical acumen).
Unless the CEO is a developer himself, he can't seriously know how well people under him are doing, and mostly has to take their word for it, and look at the results at the end of the quarter. As I said, so long as the devs are "good enough", the results will be there. That doesn't mean the devs are actually good, though, and the CEO, who isn't a dev, will have no way of knowing.

Well, until there's a major issue with their code that hurts the company. Then he'll figure he has to hire new people.
 
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D.T.

macrumors G4
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,465
Vilano Beach, FL
Unless the CEO is a developer himself, he can't seriously know how well people under him are doing, and mostly has to take their word for it, and look at the results at the end of the quarter.

He shouldn't need to, or possibly even want to, that's why his job should be this:

... any CEO worth their title would be vetting a director position that they have 100% confidence in to manage the development staff ...

I'm not sure the company structure you have in mind, but if you have development staff, I'd imagine a certain minimum size that should easily justify a very senior, highly qualified director/VP/<something> to keep things on the rails.
 
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