Apple's general positioning with new/newish initiatives...

[Imhotep397]

I "hope" this gaming initiative sticks for AAA gaming coming to the Mac, hopefully the sales will be high enough to meet whatever internal milestone they have set. If it is successful it's not going to be because Apple had the wherewithal to just identify 3D as a key sector they need to be in because of how much innovation is constantly happening there, or because of how many semi-aligned or not aligned at all industries are being driven by the tech coming from tech companies in 3D now. You don't go about things the way Apple has done if at any point in the future you want to be #1 in tht area. Apple has built it's reputation on being #1 or striving to be #1 in every category they they operate in, but with 3D they always choose to be the wet noodle.

Going all the way back to GameSprockets and well before they've never been serious about AAA gaming or professional 3D relative to what's happening in those industries at large. Apple has never really wanted even basic parity and it's always been sad to watch especially when you know Apple could kill it if they actually took it seriously. 3D has been the next Desktop Publishing after Desktop Publishing died and it's going to stay evergreen for the foreseeable future. It's really disappointing to see Apple constantly to start these half-hearted runs at high performance 3D only to sheepishly shrink away a couple of years later.

Hopefully, they'll do what I've suggested in the past or something else that would net the same or similar results, which would be to build a strategic alliance with Sony so Sony can buy Vaio back to build into a stronger computer division than it was before with Sony Macs based on Apple Silicon and x86 that would both be compatible with industry standard GPUs and unfettered access to all the AAA/PC games any platform could hope for. People that prefer Apple's current roadmap could stay buying that hardware and people that would prefer a more robust 3D performance roadmap in-line with high performance CG, Game Development, Gaming, AI in-line with hardware covering the middle to the top requirements of those industries could finally have an alternate option without having to toss MacOS out the back window to do it.

 

[tragicwinding]

Couldn't agree more with your sentiments. Apple's track record with AAA gaming and 3D has indeed been a bit of a rollercoaster ride. Their tech has always had the potential to be a game-changer in these sectors, but their commitment has often seemed half-hearted.

The idea of a strategic alliance with Sony is intriguing. It could indeed open up new horizons for Mac users who want more robust 3D performance without having to leave MacOS. Fingers crossed they surprise us this time around! Let's hope that the sales of their new gaming initiatives meet their internal milestones and motivate them to stay in the game for good.

 

[Xiao_Xi]

build a strategic alliance with Sony so Sony can buy Vaio back to build into a stronger computer division than it was before with Sony Macs based on Apple Silicon and x86 that would both be compatible with industry standard GPUs and unfettered access to all the AAA/PC games any platform could hope for.

Instead of paying Sony to port its first-party PlayStation games to macOS or selling its SoCs for PlayStation, do you propose that Apple sell its SoCs for Sony's non-existent laptops?

 

[diamond.g]

Instead of paying Sony to port its first-party PlayStation games to macOS or selling its SoCs for PlayStation, do you propose that Apple sell its SoCs for Sony's non-existent laptops?

Ya'll think Apple would sell Sony more powerful SoCs for cheaper than AMD does??

 

[Xiao_Xi]

Ya'll think Apple would sell Sony more powerful SoCs for cheaper than AMD does??

No way. It seems more plausible to me that Apple will start buying game studios that sell their SoCs or collaborate with another company.

 

[diamond.g]

No way. It seems more plausible to me that Apple will start buying game studios that sell their SoCs or collaborate with another company.

Apple isn't going to sell their SoC to anyone, they would be more likely to strip down the Mac Mini and make it a console using M-Series SoC. I could see them buying studio's to make games, though at this point maybe they should buy Unity instead, get a solid set of tools to make experiences, then maybe look to so some 2nd party stuff. See if the collaboration is worth making the studio 1st party (this is usually how Sony does it's acquisitions).

 

[Irishman]

I "hope" this gaming initiative sticks for AAA gaming coming to the Mac, hopefully the sales will be high enough to meet whatever internal milestone they have set. If it is successful it's not going to be because Apple had the wherewithal to just identify 3D as a key sector they need to be in because of how much innovation is constantly happening there, or because of how many semi-aligned or not aligned at all industries are being driven by the tech coming from tech companies in 3D now. You don't go about things the way Apple has done if at any point in the future you want to be #1 in tht area. Apple has built it's reputation on being #1 or striving to be #1 in every category they they operate in, but with 3D they always choose to be the wet noodle.

Going all the way back to GameSprockets and well before they've never been serious about AAA gaming or professional 3D relative to what's happening in those industries at large. Apple has never really wanted even basic parity and it's always been sad to watch especially when you know Apple could kill it if they actually took it seriously. 3D has been the next Desktop Publishing after Desktop Publishing died and it's going to stay evergreen for the foreseeable future. It's really disappointing to see Apple constantly to start these half-hearted runs at high performance 3D only to sheepishly shrink away a couple of years later.

Hopefully, they'll do what I've suggested in the past or something else that would net the same or similar results, which would be to build a strategic alliance with Sony so Sony can buy Vaio back to build into a stronger computer division than it was before with Sony Macs based on Apple Silicon and x86 that would both be compatible with industry standard GPUs and unfettered access to all the AAA/PC games any platform could hope for. People that prefer Apple's current roadmap could stay buying that hardware and people that would prefer a more robust 3D performance roadmap in-line with high performance CG, Game Development, Gaming, AI in-line with hardware covering the middle to the top requirements of those industries could finally have an alternate option without having to toss MacOS out the back window to do it.

I don’t know how the Apple of today would license their hardware and software to a third party (Sony) just so that third party could bring back their own laptop line (the Vaio)??

Looking back historically, the time period when Apple was licensing its OS was brief, and one of the first things that Steve killed when he returned to the company.

Apple’s unique position in technology is that they control the whole stack (hardware and software), but it seems like you believe that their best moment was when they supported Mac compatibles?

Look, I probably look back fondly as much as anyone at the Power Computing’s “Fight back for the Mac” ads, but why would Sony be a powerful Mac evangelist??

What’s in it for them and for Apple?

 

[Imhotep397]

Ya'll think Apple would sell Sony more powerful SoCs for cheaper than AMD does??

It's Apples and oranges (pun intended.LOL). I stated ASi and x86 to let the prices be what they are going to be for both while insuring maximum compatibility while allowing the consumer to make the choices.

 

[diamond.g]

It's Apples and oranges (pun intended.LOL). I stated ASi and x86 to let the prices be what they are going to be for both while insuring maximum compatibility while allowing the consumer to make the choices.

But that would be terrible for developers looking to maximise for the hardware. Sony would potentially run in to the issue MS has with the Series S (its best selling console is fairly under powered).

 

[Imhotep397]

Looking back historically, the time period when Apple was licensing its OS was brief, and one of the first things that Steve killed when he returned to the company...

The problem was that the clone manufacturers refused to revenue share with Apple to support the development of MacOS. The companies were bringing no valuable software to the table to grow the Mac market and they weren't contributing any OS development expertise or hardware development expertise to the table. They just wanted to sell cheaper Mac hardware to compete with Apple's. If it's Sony all those check boxes get checked.

 

[Imhotep397]

But that would be terrible for developers looking to maximise for the hardware. Sony would potentially run in to the issue MS has with the Series S (its best selling console is fairly under powered).

It actually would be the opposite. I'm not talking about console style PCs, I'm talking about Mac Pros with AMD/Nvidia GPU compatibility that don't cost more than your car. Developers could develop solely for ASi or ASi plus 3rd party GPU. The x86 would be slightly different.

The majority of Mac owners today still are Intel Mac owners (Intel Macs 2006-2023- ASi Macs 2020-20xx) so Apple is already supporting dual hardware solutions. The only difference is that another company would pick up the current dual hardware business model, add 3rd party GPU support and run with it while adding substantial value to the Mac offerings in software, hardware development and OS development.

 

[diamond.g]

It actually would be the opposite. I'm not talking about console style PCs, I'm talking about Mac Pros with AMD/Nvidia GPU compatibility that don't cost more than your car. Developers could develop solely for ASi or ASi plus 3rd party GPU. The x86 would be slightly different.

The majority of Mac owners today still are Intel Mac owners (Intel Macs 2006-2023- ASi Macs 2020-20xx) so Apple is already supporting dual hardware solutions. The only difference is that another company would pick up the current dual hardware business model, add 3rd GPU support and run with it while adding substantial value to the Mac offerings in software, hardware and OS development.

Yeah I figured out you were talking about the PC side instead of console.

 

[Imhotep397]

Yeah I figured out you were talking about the PC side instead of console.

I would probably also mean that current Intel Mac owners would get eGPU support back and officially supported.

 

[dmccloud]

I can give you three reasons why Apple would never let Sony use its silicon:

1. Sony loves to go proprietary and avoid paying royalties whenever possible. That's why they created their own connector for Firewire and only referred to it as "IEEE 1394" or "i.Link" - they didn't want to pay royalties to Apple or Intel.

2. Both the PS5 and XBox Series X/S are using AMD SOCs now, although Sony is using their own graphics API instead of DirectX (called GNX, GNXM, or PSSL). Sony is also using their own custom OS built on either FreeBSD 10 or 11 (some disagreement on which version Sony used).

3. Even using FreeBSD, Sony has moved away from using third party components of the OS whose licenses require attribution in favor of components which require no attribution. If they are reluctant to give those third-party developers credit for elements of their OS, they would likely be even more reluctant to give Apple any credit at all, especially after deliberately going around on Firewire.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Apple isn't going to sell their SoC to anyone, they would be more likely to strip down the Mac Mini and make it a console using M-Series SoC.

Damn shame too since the M series is stupidly overpowered. I would pay top dollar to get that in a handheld similarly to the Nintendo Switch or Steam Deck. Hell a lot of people wished that Apple would sell the M series to Nintendo for a Switch 2. Would be a massive upgrade to that outdated Tegra X1

But alas it won't be. After all if that M series chip was on a different computer, myself and many others wouldn't have switched to Mac in the first place.

 

[diamond.g]

Damn shame too since the M series is stupidly overpowered. I would pay top dollar to get that in a handheld similarly to the Nintendo Switch or Steam Deck. Hell a lot of people wished that Apple would sell the M series to Nintendo for a Switch 2. Would be a massive upgrade to that outdated Tegra X1

But alas it won't be. After all if that M series chip was on a different computer, myself and many others wouldn't have switched to Mac in the first place.

Honestly I don't think Nintendo would use Apples SoC even if they could get it for a cheaper price than what Nvidia sells Tegra for. Nintendo seems quite content with Nvidia's toolkit for game making, supposedly it makes making games on the Switch quite easy (compared to the Wii/Wii U). 🤷🏽‍♂️

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Honestly I don't think Nintendo would use Apples SoC even if they could get it for a cheaper price than what Nvidia sells Tegra for. Nintendo seems quite content with Nvidia's toolkit for game making, supposedly it makes making games on the Switch quite easy (compared to the Wii/Wii U). 🤷🏽‍♂️

The thing is the Tegra is old, very old. The chip is hilariously outdated that even Nintendo's own games are running like trash on it. But Nvidia shut down Tegra development a long time ago, so where's Nintendo gonna get the SoC for their next generation?

 

[diamond.g]

The thing is the Tegra is old, very old. The chip is hilariously outdated that even Nintendo's own games are running like trash on it. But Nvidia shut down Tegra development a long time ago, so where's Nintendo gonna get the SoC for their next generation?

Orin still exists, NIO is using a variant of it in their cars.

 

[LeeW]

It seems more plausible to me that Apple will start buying game studios

Not going to happen, just not something they would be interested in.

 

[Imhotep397]

I can give you three reasons...

Yes, I know about these things and for the most part I agree. The outside chance I believe is that it helps Sony expand and possibly become a player in the in PC/Workstation market as well as the mobile tech space (iOS on Sony phones) again as well as gain the brand relevance in the TV business again.

Apple would be un-impeachable in gaming and 3D content creation IF they integrated 3rd part support for discreet GPUs.