Apple's Good Faith with Customers

Discussion in 'iMac' started by DrMotownMac, Oct 24, 2016.

?

If there's no new iMac this week and if Microsoft announces a new all-in-one computer, you will:

  1. Wait until 2017 to buy a new iMac when it's eventually released (hopefully).

    17 vote(s)
    26.2%
  2. Buy a brand new Windows all-in-one computer from Microsoft or another company.

    6 vote(s)
    9.2%
  3. Spend full price to buy a 2015 iMac and just accept the fact that it's older technology.

    5 vote(s)
    7.7%
  4. Stick with whatever older computer you have a little longer before making a choice.

    37 vote(s)
    56.9%
  1. DrMotownMac macrumors 6502

    DrMotownMac

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Location:
    Michigan
    #1
    It seems to me that Apple has many die-hard "enthusiasts" (judging by this site's popularity alone, not to mention what every Apple Store looks like on any given day compared to pretty much all other retail stores in the same mall/neighborhood). Given that fact, and given that the continued support of customers around the world over the past 40 years has kept Apple in business, it seems that there is one obvious good PR move the company should make under the current circumstances. That is, if they simply CAN'T update the iMac at this time due to the unavailability of certain processors and/or graphics cards, why don't they just TWEAK the computer a little (to MAKE it a 2016 version) and lower the price by maybe $200 or so across the board. That way, we can still feel "OK" about spending a couple thousand dollars on an old computer model. But, it would be really hard for me (or anyone, I would think) to spend $2,500 to $3,000 on last year's iMac when we all KNOW they will be releasing a brand new model for the same price in probably less than 6 months. It's not like it's October 2015 right now. It's 2016...a whole year later. Why would anyone spend the exact same amount right now on a very soon-to-be-obsolete model?

    I know that Tim Cook, Jony Ive, Craig Federighi, Phil Schiller, etc. are not sitting around reading comments on MacRumors to help them decide how to run their business. BUT, in the event that there's anyone at all from Apple who's reading this and wondering why their computer sales are going down, consider the fact that your company does not appear to be showing the same good faith with customers they used to show under the direction of Steve Jobs. Steve may have been a jerk and lacked a lot of interpersonal skills, but he certainly understood what made the company tick and why there were enthusiasts in the first place. Tim Cook, in spite of how nice of a guy he seems to be, appears to lack a little of that insight. Like most MBA bean counter types, he seems to think much more about financial statements than abstractions like innovation or customer satisfaction.

    I'm not sure what my next move will be with respect to computer purchases, but I am, for the first time since 1987, seriously considering jumping ship and buying an all-in-one Windows 10 desktop, particularly if Microsoft announces it (as some expect) on Wednesday 10/26. What do all of you think? I know this is a hypothetical question, but if Apple remains silent on desktop updates this Thursday, and if Microsoft really does announce a new desktop Surface computer this week, what will you do?
     
  2. loekf macrumors 6502

    loekf

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2015
    Location:
    Nijmegen, The Netherlands
    #2
    Nothing. Still happy with my Late 2014 5k iMac. I see absolutely no reason to go back to Windows. One of the reasons for an iMac was that's a complete all-in-one package. However, macOS is so much better than Windows. Windows 10 is still the inconsistent mess Windows always was.
     
  3. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #3
    I voted with sticking with what I have, mostly because my computer is 11 months old, and I have no need or desire to replace it ;)

    If however, my computer was ready for replacement, the odds would be high that I'd opt for a windows machine. I struggled mightily in choosing the iMac vs. a Dell.
     
  4. briloronmacrumo macrumors 6502

    briloronmacrumo

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Location:
    USA
    #4
    Since my 2011 27in. iMac with SSD still does the job, I'm waiting, although more horsepower would help. If they don't release a new Mac Pro, a top spec iMac will be my choice when Apple revs it. Because macOS development is a main focus, a Windows machine is not a consideration ( although running Xcode in a VM on a high-end Windows 10 machine is possible ).
     
  5. NY Guitarist macrumors 65816

    NY Guitarist

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    #5
    I'm in this predicament. With our probable expansion strategy we need at least 8, maybe as many as 10 desktop machines.

    As an Apple customer and enthusiast for decades I'd prefer to buy Apple, but if I have to buy Windows then Apple has lost my business plus any enthusiast recommendation.
     
  6. Xeyad macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2012
    #6
    I've personally been using Macintosh computers since 1993, and for the first time ever in my life, I'm sadly considering to switch. Of course we don't know what Apple has plans for Thursday, but if they don't release a new iMac, or don't at least upgrade some of the internals (GPU specifically), AND Microsoft releases a very appealing Surface AIO, then yes, I might seriously consider the switch.

    The way the current management at Apple has handled the Mac updates is absolutely shameful to its loyal customers. Macbooks that haven't been updated in over 500 days yet still ask for full price, iMacs that are insultingly low on specifications, and pay ridiculous premiums for the basic upgrades. I remember Steve Jobs saying that Apple doesn't want to ship junk products, yet sadly, here we are today with a $1800+ 27" iMac that comes with a 5400 rpm harddrive as standard.

    I really hope they do AT LEAST upgrade the GPU on the current iMac, as the M3xx graphic chips are generations-behind compared to what AMD and Nvidia have now.

    I love Apple, and it will always have a special place in my heart, but I'm not paying $2,000 for a computer with specifications from years past. I might be able to hold on to my old Mac for now, but if this treatment for the Mac continues, I'm sadly going to leave for something better, because the blunt truth is, the market today has many computers better than the Mac.
     
  7. Double-Slit macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    #7
    I am very happy with my late 2015 retina 27" iMac, SSD, 3,3GHz - M395 - 24 GB. It does the job very well, no failures what so ever. I will never go back to Windows. Traumatized by the Windows 'startup sounds'. With regards to the release of a new iMac, new isn't per se better. The last edition of a computer or devise is often the best, 'children diseases' have been solved and the machine has been fine-tuned. Better wait one or two years after the release of the new iMac before purchasing one.
     
  8. DrMotownMac thread starter macrumors 6502

    DrMotownMac

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Location:
    Michigan
    #8
    I sincerely hope that Apple GETS THIS, and they give at least a little something to the would-be iMac buyers out there to keep them as customers. I, for one, have a 2013 MacBook Air, which is fine as a laptop for another few years. BUT, my desktop computer at home is a 2008 iMac and it is now CRAWLING with the "rainbow wheel of death" showing it's ugly face on a very regular basis. I absolutely MUST purchase TWO new desktop computers, both for my home and my office, and I don't think I can wait until next spring. SO, if I'm going to buy an old iMac, it better be at least a little cheaper than they are today or it better have at least one or two new items to persuade me that it's more "modern" than the 2015 model. Otherwise, I will definitely be looking at PCs.

    But NY Guitarist, you're talking about buying 8 to 10 desktop computers! And I imagine there are at least hundreds (if not thousands) of people like you and me out there who are looking to buy more than one desktop computer ASAP. If Apple doesn't throw people like us a bone, they are out of their minds. My last non-Apple computer was purchased in 1984 – an actual "IBM PC" with dual floppy disk drives, no hard drive at all, 256 kB of RAM and a 13 inch 256 color CRT display (I'm not even mentioning the 1200 baud modem or the Epson dot matrix printer). And 32 years later, I'm actually considering going BACK!!! I can't even believe it myself. Steve Jobs may not have been an actual hardware or software engineer, and he may have been very difficult to get along with, but I really do miss him. He would have given us all at least one reason to buy an iMac in 2016. Right now, there are none.
     
  9. enc0re macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    #9
    It's tough to answer the poll question because we don't know what Microsoft will announce. But if it's a high-res, big screen, AIO with a GTX 1080 graphics card available; I'll consider it. I'd miss the synergy with all my other Apple devices. On the other hand, Windows is really good for gaming and I would gain some synergies with my XBOX.

    Let's wait and see. May the best company win. They compete, we win. etc, etc...
     
  10. DrMotownMac thread starter macrumors 6502

    DrMotownMac

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Location:
    Michigan
    #10
    That last line is the best comment so far! Big time THUMBS UP! :D

    Meanwhile, I agree with you about the problem with the question...but I feel so strongly about abandoning Apple if they abandon us here, that I almost don't care about the specs. I'm making the assumption that, like the Surface Pro and Surface Book computers, the all-in-one will be designed to out compete Apple in the desktop realm. So, if it's essentially a next-generation iMac with Windows instead of mac OS, then sign me up. Because there appears to be NO next-generation iMac coming from Apple anytime soon.
     
  11. bbnck, Oct 24, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016

    bbnck macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    #11
    Regardless of what I think about Apple's general direction, I still think the Mac operating system is far superior to Windows - there is nothing else out there that comes close to it (maybe Debian with GNOME 3, which is amazingly stable and easy to use). I'm happy with my Mac, and one thing I know I can count on Apple for is customer service - this is important to me and is a big influencer for me when I decide who to buy from, and the same applies to my bank, broadband provider, mobile network provider, and so on. I'm sure many others are the same.

    There is definitely a lot I want Apple to do with Macs as a developer/professional user, but time will tell whether they deliver it. Let's see what happens on Thursday, they might surprise everyone.
     
  12. DrMotownMac thread starter macrumors 6502

    DrMotownMac

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Location:
    Michigan
    #12
    I really really really hope you're right!!!

    And, PS, I agree 100% with you about customer SERVICE. It's just that all of this secretive nonsense with respect to their product pipeline is getting a litter hard to deal with. It's not showing GOOD FAITH with their customers...i.e., they're not telling us whether there will ever be a significant iMac update. For all we know, they may be planning to make laptop computers ONLY going forward (since it is the large portion of their computer business). It's just that by them being so secretive, it makes it impossible to know when to purchase new hardware (especially since it seems we're losing the reliable product updates as given in the MacRumors Buyer's Guide). Everything now says "Don't Buy!" And that is simply based on past product announcement frequency. Now, Apple's changing their pattern, but they're not telling anyone what the pattern is or will be. So, my assumption is that they're simply NOT innovating any more (or not nearly as fast). So, the end result is that early adopters, like me, will simply end up finding the next great thing and move on.

    Let's see what happens on Thursday. But I'm just saying that if they let us down the way that some people fear they might, then I'm almost definitely moving on.
     
  13. bbnck, Oct 24, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016

    bbnck macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    #13
    I understand your frustration but that won't change. Apple are secretive for a reason. They don't want other companies that compete with them to find out what they are working on. It's up to you whether you want to continue to use a Mac or move on - plenty of people have done so, but then there are just as many people that are happy with their Mac, and many more buying their first Mac today. Some people have gone back to Windows only to be reminded why they bought a Mac in the first place, but then there are others that have moved on and never looked back. I hope you can see where I am going with this.

    I am still very optimistic about the Mac. There is certainly a lot I would like Apple to do differently, but that doesn't change my overall opinion of the Mac platform. And Macs are used everywhere - not just in homes, but in businesses too. My entire department uses them, as is the case for many companies worldwide. Apple knows how many people, organisations and companies rely on their computers.
     
  14. hdmdc macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Location:
    Portugal
    #14
    Imo

    This threat is an overreaction.

    Most Apple users that need a computer now will get the 2015 version over waiting for next year. Apple has been known in the past to have been 577 days without upgrading the iMac.

    Once you will buy and get any iMac it will be internally outdated already, get over it, enjoy it and have fun.
     
  15. bbnck macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    #15
    I did that. I bought mine at the start of this month.
     
  16. takasugi macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    #16
    I bought the top of the line 27 iMac in March so I'm not looking for a new system for awhile. I understand that there are reasons why they won't be updated but I wish Apple would at least discount their systems with older components or at least add memory and SSD standard to keep them competitive as they get older.
     
  17. varian55zx macrumors 6502a

    varian55zx

    Joined:
    May 10, 2012
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #17
    I'll never buy Windows. Let alone a windows all in one (sounds terrible!!).

    Can't stand em. I'm all for better specs at a lower price but if all they're doing is operating a junky OS, what's the point!
     
  18. merkinmuffley macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2010
    #18
    Have a 2014 and 2015 IMac here, happy with both and in no hurry to update either. I will be watching both the MS and Apple events this week because I am in need of a new portable. Right now, MS looks good because I find doing my photo editing with a stylus/pen to be preferable. The only question remaining is it better enough to push me to a MS OS, which honestly scares the crap out of me. Cooks comments on replacing laptops with IPads does not leave me with a warm feeling about Apple and future of computing, but until I see evidence Apple is stepping out of the computer business I'll chalk those ridiculous comments he made up to marketing and an attempt to give tablet sales a boost.
     
  19. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #19
    This mirrors my situation, I have a current iMac and I'm very happy with that, I have a 2012 rMBP that needed replacing and so I opted for the Surface Book. I'm very happy with that laptop, I took it on a business trip to SF a little while ago, and it performed wonderfully.

    I'm also curious about the Microsoft media event as well.
     
  20. Samuelsan2001 macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2013
    #20
    I don't see what any of your points are Apple have the latest desktop chips in their machines, they have the best consumer screen in a computer available, they have thunderbolt and their graphics cards have only been superceded in the last 2 months.

    No one is ahead of them, they updated a year ago and they are looking to update the line in the next few months I just can't see what you guys are desperate for that's not been put in in a timely manner for the iMac....
     
  21. roadkill401 macrumors 6502

    roadkill401

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    #21
    This is like the USA election. You don't really like either choice but those are the only options that you have. Apple has abandoned the Mac and seems to be focusing on iPhone and iWatch. There are those who just want to surf the net and do small stuff that a phone will be able to do. Yet there are power users who require a real computer and what is getting delivered by Apple is more geared towards looks than actual functionality.
    Then you have all the other players on the computer market. They are making some really impressive computers that will deliver the power and performance but are hamstrung by Microsoft and an OS that is getting to be useful but still misses the mark. Linux just didn't catch on and there just are not the apps to make it viable.

    Nobody has a system that is the drop everything got to have purchase.
     
  22. saberfi macrumors member

    saberfi

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2015
    #22
    I profoundly feel the same and I fully agree about the throwing us a bone concept.

    Update something. Anything! If they want to wait until Kaby Lake (to avoid a separate control chip for Thunderbolt 3 for example) - fine. Why couldn't they update the GPUs in the interim? As long as something was modernized (GPU/USB-C/etc), I would probably be happy enough. Yeah, I understand it is more convenient for them to update everything in a single push, but from a customer point of view it is starting to feel irritating.

    I was prepared to wait a year until a new iMac, but I'm not sure if I continue like that if the wait is closer to a year and a half.

    If the Surface AIO looks like a solid machine (good display, perhaps silent operation under normal conditions, 14nm GPU, etc) - I may actually be convinced to go in that direction. If Apple had even some kind of a "Late 2016" model for iMac, whatever MS offered would have a hard time beating it, as I primarily want a macOS machine (yet I can certainly get by with W10 too).
     
  23. JustMartin macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Location:
    UK
    #23
    But, can you imagine the outrage there would be on this forum if Apple really did just tinker with the specs a little? There are two Eastern proverbs that might be of use here. The Buddha is supposed to have said that the source of all unhappiness is unfulfilled expectations. Apple hasn't raised any expectations at all, it's said nothing. We've done it all ourselves, the people here and the MacRumours (and the clue's in the name) expected update predictor. Secondly, a Taoist saying "when there's nothing to be done - do nothing." The machines can't get new processors and putting a fresh lick of paint on the outside is going to achieve nothing.
     
  24. DrMotownMac thread starter macrumors 6502

    DrMotownMac

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Location:
    Michigan
    #24
    Okay, after seeing the new Microsoft Surface Studio, and checking out the specs and the prices, I just changed my vote. Only the base model is $2,999. Go to the Microsoft Store to customize one and see how much they REALLY cost!!


    • $2,999 for 1TB / Intel Core i5 - 8GB RAM / 2GB GPU
    • $3,499 for 1TB / Intel Core i7 - 16GB RAM / 2GB GPU
    • $4,199 for 2TB / Intel Core i7 - 32GB RAM / 4GB GPU (!?!?!?)
    Um, $4,200 for an iMac running Windows 10? Now, given that I'm not a "creative professional," I don't really have a NEED for a touch-screen iMac I can draw on (in spite of how cool it looks), but when you compare specs to the 27 inch iMac, it's really not even close. The whole REASON this computer is so much more expensive than an iMac is because of the touchscreen. It has nothing to do with the processor, GPU, RAM, SSD/HD, etc. This thing is for artists and architects. It does not appear to be for doctors or people who just need an all-in-one desktop computer.

    I was all set to buy one of these based on the rumors, until I saw the prices. I would frankly rather buy last year's iMac, with the 4GHz i7, 3 TB fusion drive, 32 GB of RAM and the AMD Radeon R9 M395X with 4GB GPU for only $3,179 (using the Educational pricing...I'm an assistant clinical professor). It's over $1,000 less, and it has an extra GB of HD space. And that's LAST YEAR'S iMac. Yeah, I'm going to have to pass on the Microsoft Surface Studio. For the same price, I'd CONSIDER it, but the touchscreen is basically a novelty for people who aren't actual artists, based on my experience trying to draw on my 12 inch iPad Pro. Furthermore, I would be spending a fortune on this thing and then I'd still be stuck running WINDOWS instead of Mac OS. I don't think so.....
     
  25. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #25
    While I agree that the price tag is exorbitant, its positioned for the creative professionals, much like the Mac Pro at 3,000 is.

    For the consumer who does facebook, email office apps, and maybe dabbling in photoshop, its a whole different story.
     

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