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Apple's iPhone OS X on Subnotebook

Digital Skunk said:
That may not be a bad idea given what OWC did to the MacBook to make the ModBook. It sounds nice in my head :D and Apple would be the one to do it. I would only be concerned with the screen sizes...

Could you imagine a 24" laptop :eek:
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I love the idea, and came up with a crude little mockup of my own that I posted a little while back. Induction charging and wireless syncing with the base, which might also be where the optical drive is located.

I would rather see something along these lines over a pda, but I'd love to see either become a reality. Apple could really change the way we interact with computers if they pursue this technology.
 

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Well this could be good news for iphone users. If they use the iphone OS that means they will be devloping more software and software along the lines of business use for the sub notebook, which arguably could then be used on the iphone making it a truly sub tablet notebook :)
 
0tim0 said:
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This would make no sense at all. That's why this guy is an analyst and not an engineer.

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Agreed. First off, MacOS X is smaller than 4 GB. The things that make installations larger are the bundled apps and support files. Today's market demands much larger storage than 4 GB, whether the computer is a subnotebook, notebook, desktop, or whatever. So the size of the OS is a minor consideration. Of much greater importance to a Flash-based system are the durability and expense of the Flash memory. A subnotebook is still a full-fledged computer and has to do what most people use laptops for. Browsing the Web, email, PowerPoint or Keynote presentations, and everything associated with them must be doable on the machine.
 
Shaw is kind of full of it. This speculation is very specific about the device, but it seems to be missing the point. I think that without knowing it Shaw is actually describing the next iteration of the iPod. We've been hearing (okay, reading) these rumors of the next generation iPod being delayed, and at the same time hearing rumors of a sub-notebook.

I'm thinking that the next iPod will go even further with it's ability to manage and interface with all kind of digital media. They've been trying that for years, ever since that iPod Photo (3rd gen?). Now they have an interface method (touchscreen) and a stripped down OS, so put them together with a HDD or some phat NAND, add a WIFI card/interface and voila ~ the super-duper iPod you guys have been waiting for.

Makes perfect sense to me. I should freakin have Shaw Wu's job...
 
right on!

Darkroom said:
i always though it would be cool if apple turned the iMac into a hybrid desktop/tablet that one could detach the touch-screen from the rest of the computer...

forgive me for dreaming...

la la la :)
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that's one of 2 or 3 new form I think macs will develop.
first, the Mac Slate. Looking at apple's patent applications for multi-touch screens and new optical drives on back of computer. I have a Dell I9200 17" laptop and could imagine carrying just the screen around the house for streaming media from a home server, web surfing and email nothing too powerful. with optical drive on the back/bottom and multi-touch.
second, multi-function remote/gamepad.
finally, a Watcom table-like device for vertical markets. Apple build the hardware and integration and let third-parties develop apps. A multi-touch pad/keyboard for Final Cut/Logic or one where the app determine controls on touch-pad/keyborad. and the touch-pad/keyboard is optional, use it if it makes oyur job easier.
 
asphalt-proof said:
I'm trying to imagine where in the market this product would fit that wouldn't be merely a novelty item. Any ideas?
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Doctors. Lawyers. University students. Business people. Anyone who presently has a laptop and wants a super-portable.
 
sartinsauce said:
Shaw is kind of full of it. This speculation is very specific about the device, but it seems to be missing the point. I think that without knowing it Shaw is actually describing the next iteration of the iPod. We've been hearing (okay, reading) these rumors of the next generation iPod being delayed, and at the same time hearing rumors of a sub-notebook.

I'm thinking that the next iPod will go even further with it's ability to manage and interface with all kind of digital media. They've been trying that for years, ever since that iPod Photo (3rd gen?). Now they have an interface method (touchscreen) and a stripped down OS, so put them together with a HDD or some phat NAND, add a WIFI card/interface and voila ~ the super-duper iPod you guys have been waiting for.

Makes perfect sense to me. I should freakin have Shaw Wu's job...
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Depends on what the iPhone OS X really is. The thing is, the basic idea is correct.

From everything I've read thus far, Apple appears to be developing a different kind of user interface for its Mobile Mac products which do fall into their broader category of computing/communications devices. So to answer one question, these are not a new class of devices... they are a new class of computers with wi-fi and potentially other communication capabilities built-in.

Piles was initiated back in the 90's with the express purpose of being integrated into devices like Newton/e-Mate. It is a feature set that is designed specifically for a mobile OS architecture.

Knowing that, and seeing the iPhone interface thus far, I think what Shaw may be trying to say is that some derivation of the same type of UI/OS is being extrapolated for the Mobile Mac devices. Since Piles has been resurrected and patented and job postings are going up for the new Mobile Mac division, this is almost absolute confirmation of Apple's intention at producing a line of sub-notebook devices of which iPhone is the first. I ran that by a co-worker who was a product engineer at Apple in the 90's and he agreed emphatically.

He also noted that Apple's use of ARM processors in iPhone is a definite confirmation of their strategic direction. The most significant device to use the ARM processor in Apple's past was the Newton. ARM specializes in processor designs specifically tailored to mobile communications platforms.
 
mccldwll said:
Doctors. Lawyers. University students. Business people. Anyone who presently has a laptop and wants a super-portable.
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Funny you should mention.... one of the key markets that Apple is now targeting appears to be the medical industry. Multitouch portables have huge applications in diagnostics and surgery, and one of the patents for apple's Integrated Sensing Display specifically mentions endoscopy as a particular application for a type of ISD that emits light through the same aperture that it captures imaging data.
 
Sounds like they may want to enter the handheld wireless market.

There's a niche market that is dominated by windows. They use these handhelds with touch screen on Exchange Floors, Factory Floors, pretty much anywhere that a workforce with limited mobility needs connectivity in a small form factor that you can literally carry around all day. The ones we use have velcro strapping for attaching to your arm, and also a neck strap.

Maybe something like an 8 or 10 inch tablet with touch capability.

I'd be surprised to see it, but there is a market for them, as its mostly dominated by smaller niche players that use either Windows CE or a full version of windows.

Not something the general consumer would want though.
 
pilotError said:
Not something the general consumer would want though.
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This is exactly what some industry executives said about the personal computer back in the 1970's. If I recall, they worked for IBM and Hewlett-Packard.

The question is not whether or not they'd want it... but how would it have to be designed and what would it have to feature in order to make it desirable to the general consumer.

The reason Apple is successful at introducing products like iPod is because they do a much better job of asking and researching the answers to such questions than most companies.
 
Stripped-down OS X = PDA, not sub-notebook

If they can squeeze everything into the iPhone, then the next iPod needs to be the iPhone minus the phone part. Which is, "iPod + PDA".

A sub-notebook, on the other hand, needs to run the same things as your bigger laptop/desktop computer. Less storage space, no optical drive, less ports, I can see. Not the full-version of OS X? Then you need "special versions" of programs, just like a PDA. That's not a sub-notebook.

On my Mac mini, the Applications, etc, Library, System and var folders take around 20 GB. That's with iWork and a few other apps installed. I'm pretty sure that things like Apache, PHP and others things could be omitted from the default install, making the full version of OS X and associated desktop programs fit somewhere between 15-20GB.

Even at 20GB, it would leave around 12GB for user files if the sub-notebook had 32GB of Flash storage. That would be enough for the entry model, and maybe a higher capacity model with 64GB of storage.
 
Is there really that many people who need something between an iPhone and Macbook? How about apple just makes a whole range of products, each one being 1/2 inch larger than the previous. Maybe that way everyone will be satisfied.
 
Yvan256 said:
If they can squeeze everything into the iPhone, then the next iPod needs to be the iPhone minus the phone part. Which is, "iPod + PDA".

A sub-notebook, on the other hand, needs to run the same things as your bigger laptop/desktop computer. Less storage space, no optical drive, less ports, I can see. Not the full-version of OS X? Then you need "special versions" of programs, just like a PDA. That's not a sub-notebook.

On my Mac mini, the Applications, etc, Library, System and var folders take around 20 GB. That's with iWork and a few other apps installed. I'm pretty sure that things like Apache, PHP and others things could be omitted from the default install, making the real OS X fit somewhere between 15-20GB.

Even at 20GB, it would leave around 12GB for user files if the sub-notebook had 32GB of Flash storage. That would be enough for the entry model, and maybe a higher capacity model with 64GB of storage.
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Why do people look at future technologies and dismiss them based on present capabilities?

Is it not a foregone conclusion that storage media are still advancing in efficiency? If someone told you five years ago that there'd be an 80GB capacity multimedia player the size of a credit card and thinner than a pack of cigarettes would you have scoffed because drives then didn't have that kind of efficiency?

We're talking about Apple... the company that almost thirty years ago figured out a way to get 64K addressing in an Apple II board that could only support 32K addressing at the time. They don't approach design considerations from "What can we do with the available technology now"... Their approach is more akin to ILM's approach to visual effects... "How might we do this and what's it going to take?"
 
pilotError said:
Sounds like they may want to enter the handheld wireless market.

There's a niche market that is dominated by windows. They use these handhelds with touch screen on Exchange Floors, Factory Floors, pretty much anywhere that a workforce with limited mobility needs connectivity in a small form factor that you can literally carry around all day. The ones we use have velcro strapping for attaching to your arm, and also a neck strap.

Maybe something like an 8 or 10 inch tablet with touch capability.

I'd be surprised to see it, but there is a market for them, as its mostly dominated by smaller niche players that use either Windows CE or a full version of windows.

Not something the general consumer would want though.
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I would like a 8" - 10" widescreen media player, with or without DVD player for long drives with the kids. use as a :apple: TV remote/gamepad at home.

also, some people seems to think using multi-touch would mean using your fingers to drag the cursor across the screen. There's no cursor (that I remember) on the iphone. you touch where the cursor would have been. basically for multi-touch to come to the laptop/desktop/hybrid apple would develop a touch interface like on iphone not the keyboard/mouse interface we have now
 
I hope Apple doesn't turn into Google and start releasing new products and forget about their old, "in dire need of updates" products.

(Google seems to have a lot of beta and new beta services, with very few finished products, in my opinion).

-=|Mgkwho
 
marktesssing said:
I would like a 8" - 10" widescreen media player, with or without DVD player for long drives with the kids. use as a :apple: TV remote/gamepad at home.

also, some people seems to think using multi-touch would mean using your fingers to drag the cursor across the screen. There's no cursor (that I remember) on the iphone. you touch where the cursor would have been. basically for multi-touch to come to the laptop/desktop/hybrid apple would develop a touch interface like on iphone not the keyboard/mouse interface we have now
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But this is partially correct. Multitouch screens are pressure-sensitive unlike most single-point touchscreens.

You can navigate a multitouch interface without executing commands. That is, you can move the cursor around the screen... but the cursor is wherever your finger is.

Though the iPhone doesn't immediately reveal this functionality it's there. If you're typing using the virtual keyboard, for example, you can glide your fingers to the key you're trying to find without having the keys along the way register input. It's not until the key enlarges and you apply pressure that the multitouch registers an executed input.

In this way, yes, multitouch can be used for multi-stage click-and-drag execution, marquee selection, etc. The same sort of things you'd do with a mouse only, as I said before, the pointer is your finger. Whether or not a pointer arrow appears on such an interface is just a design issue... it could be designed either way... to display a pointer arrow wherever your finger is, or to not display it with the assumption that you can visibly see where your own finger is pointing.

The advantage of having an onscreen pointer is chiefly when the input device is separate from the screen.

Apple developed what I like to call the "no button" mouse... I like to think of multitouch as the "no mouse mouse"... Multipoint gestures can execute in single "chords" a series of commands that would take several steps with a keyboard, mouse or stylus.
 
I could use a ultra-compact portable so that when the guy in front of me reclines his seat it doesn't shove my laptop into my stomach.

If this is true I could see the audience being people who give presentations / travel a lot and just need something with internet access, word and presentation capabilities. Thats all I use my laptop for; no need for it to be so big.
 
What?

skone said:
i wonder if it will support adobe cs3... i mean why would anyone want to lug around a sub notebook when you might as well lug around a 15" macbook pro ... unless this thing fits in your pocket. or no, is there a niche market for that

but i'm sure apple has thinked this through, maybe the new ipod is the new "sub notebook"
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That is one of the dumbest comments I have seen in a while. What the hell does CS3 have to do with anything? who would possibly want to do design work on a sub-notebook? How is it "lugging" around when it is a sub-notebook, and how can you compare it to a 15" MBP?

Personally, I don't see the need for such a device. As far as I know, the windows sub-notebooks (not PDAs) are not exactly selling like hotcakes. It'd be cool to see, but, at least for me, it wouldn't really fit into my life in either work or play.
 
Avatar74 said:
Why do people look at future technologies and dismiss them based on present capabilities?
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Hey, I was looking at this with the idea of such a product being released in 2007-Q4, and also what it would imply with regard to current technologies and prices.

I was saying how it would be possible, not impossible! :confused:
 
sounds to me like the nokia N800 done right.



for a real subnotebook with keyboard i don't see the need to use a touch screen and a stripped down OSX. even if it's a subnotebook i would want full functionality.

i could see a 4-5 inch screen, 1024x640. a better pda.
 
PDubNYC said:
As far as I know, the windows sub-notebooks (not PDAs) are not exactly selling like hotcakes.
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Neither is Zune... but that doesn't seem to deter iPods from flying out the door.

Assessing the market based on what Microsoft does is not necessarily the way to look at Apple.

First, because Apple is a hardware company and second because they have a much better grasp and much more experience at industrial design of hardware products than Microsoft.

Apple could easily succeed because they understand what it means to design something that people want and find cool. Microsoft's core strength is in fooling people into believing their mediocre products are needed... but they have no clue how to make their products highly desirable (read: sexy) on a level playing field.
 
As little as 4GB of space. That's not very stripped down. Shaw Wu, doesn't know what he's talking about. I did a clean install of OS X on my Mini to free up space and even with all of iLife including Garageband, etc, just removing the additional language support, fonts, and excess printer drivers, I got mine down near that. Saved an extra 5-6GB.
 
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