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Apple's Mac Pro business practices scare me
- Thread starter wankey
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Definitely.
In such instances, the single source for hardware problems is invaluable in terms of wasted time (lost production of the employee affected, as well as the additional hours spent by IT staff to solve the problem).
What does your dept. use the Macs for?
I ask, as I'm not accustomed to seeing them used in a NOC, especially when the primary OS is Windows or Linux.
Is this software or hardware reasons?
And are these "binned" systems workstations/servers, or desktops?
Just curious, as the level of system matters in terms of hardware (businesses do use the cheaper models for those that don't need much power, such as email, spreadsheets, ... (i.e. MS Office or similar level of input; such as data entry).
I'm also more accustomed to Windows software having enough bloat to choke an Elephant (system slows to a crawl) as it were just a few years after the system is purchased (OS, MS or other software vendors' applications).
Sigh, doesn't anyone read the full thread anymore and just 'jump in'??? No, I have a problem believing someone who says that an overclocked single CPU system can run Adobe software faster then a Dual Xeon Mac workstation, and in my mind I'm talking the 8 core 2.93 Xeons......
Well, I didn't need anything server grade and it was replacing a dated piece of junk. I wanted a well-built machine with plenty of ports and a few slots. Also a processor equivalent to what I could get in the respective iMac (Core2Duo at the tie).
It was good value for the money. I've only recently discovered USB <-> GPIB converters that work like a charm. You're still spending about $500, but I had no trouble running LabView under VMWare.
BB
It was good value for the money. I've only recently discovered USB <-> GPIB converters that work like a charm. You're still spending about $500, but I had no trouble running LabView under VMWare.
BB
$1500 seems pretty cheap by comparison to me, but you said that it was a few years back. I honestly can't remember what models were out then! I thought my G5 was going to last me for years back then.
I ran into the same issues with MultiSim as well (LabView was originally the OS X version, MultiSIM run under VM). I opted to return the MP and got the LabView version swapped to Windows. Problem solved.
And a USB to GPIB adapter is a wonderful thing.
I work in an NHS hospital (one of the biggest in the UK), in a medical illustration department. We do photography, graphic design and video work - the Macs are due to FCP, historic use in graphics (basically the designers can't function in Windows, but we've never had any downtime on their machines either) and stability in photography. We tried Dells (Optiplex) towers in the photography section for six months, but they were horribly slow to boot up (that "bloat" you referred to is a real problem), and generally unreliable. We also find OS X's colour management better.
Mix. Some had failures due to suspected overheating from being on 24/7, and others just slowed to a crawl and we were fed up of re-imaging. The systems were workstations (Core 2 Quads, 4-8GB RAM) running Windows XP. We have a handful of the cheap desktop Dells kicking round for admin work, and they're a nightmare to work on...
Totally agree on the first comment - the cheap Dell desktops are probably the most common ones in the hospital, as most users only need basic functions - and they're also the ones that go wrong a lot of the time. However, the IT Dept then just send it back to Dell and pull a spare out of the cupboard.
As for the bloat? Yep. Enterprise level IT seems to involve a lot of crap!
Makes sense then. I'm aware of medical imaging software is available for OS X as well from a couple of members, and wondered if it might be that (i.e. Radiology Dept.).
XP's gotten rather huge over time (all the Service Packs and updates given it's age), and runs s-l-o-w-l-y on a lot of older systems (hate XP at this point).
Makes sense. Entities that large can keep spares around for such issues, even if it's covered under warranty in order to prevent a loss in productivity. Saves lots of hassle (just clone the correct master image to the HDD for the machine, physically set it in place and go).
Nice to be able to do that.Unfortunately, code bloat doesn't just show up under Windows, but given it's market share, is more commonly seen (i.e. cross platform applications by companies such as Adobe).
I wish developers would "cut bait" and re-develop applications more often than they do, and rely less on recycled code (causes all kinds of problems). But it's not going to happen as I'd wish, as $$$ is the primary factor, not product performance/quality.Why shouldn't Apple charge as much as they can? If they charge too much people will stop buying and Apple would either lower their prices or go out of business. Why lower your prices when everyone is buying your products? We should be glad they aren't RAISING them instead!
I for one think Apple's products are far superior to anything offered with Windows. So you have a faster processor? So what, you can run a Photoshop filter in 10 seconds instead of 10.5 seconds! My Mac Pro has an aircraft-grade aluminum body! Your's is cheap plastic!
Apple offers LUXURY electronic products with a LUXURY OS. You get what you pay for. Go buy your cheap crap!
I for one think Apple's products are far superior to anything offered with Windows. So you have a faster processor? So what, you can run a Photoshop filter in 10 seconds instead of 10.5 seconds! My Mac Pro has an aircraft-grade aluminum body! Your's is cheap plastic!
Apple offers LUXURY electronic products with a LUXURY OS. You get what you pay for. Go buy your cheap crap!
Hardware wise, they're using the same parts that the PC vendor's use (components used on the main board and daughter board), HDD's, RAM, graphics card,... The firmware is just a different specification, and MP's aren't the only systems that use it (Itanium is what it was actually created for, and newer Xeon server boards have the option to run either BIOS or EFI).Apple offers LUXURY electronic products with a LUXURY OS. You get what you pay for. Go buy your cheap crap!
They do differ from other products in industrial design (case). But their real advantage is a closed system, which has the potential for an improved user experience (what Apple's advertised about Macs for years). This is primarily a result of their OS.
Unfortunately though, this has diminished compared to the level it was in the past (i.e more bugs making it into shipped products). One example in the 2009 systems, is the Audio bug that took nearly a year to be addressed, and 2 patches to accomplish it (first patch still had problems).
It's just not what it once was anymore, as the iDevices has shifted their focus (makes sense, as they're a business, which means they follow the money).
I know I never do.
That could be true. I'm still not going to change my thread-skimming ways though.
Don't dump on faster processors! In my case, rendering can go from 1 full day to overnight while I sleep (no down time!).
A nice looking case doesn't get my work done faster.
Apple offers LUXURY electronic products with a LUXURY OS. You get what you pay for. Go buy your cheap crap!
Apple offers the same cheap crap at luxury prices. So yes, you do indeed get what you pay for (the logo on the side).
I see your point! But you're forgetting cost. Compare a $3000 single processor 980x system to a $3000 dual Xeon from Apple. The core 980x is faster than Apple's base processor in the dual Xeon when comparing price points (so the value per dollar is higher), but one can find decked out 980x systems for under $2000 (less than the high end iMac).
But even then, the stock 980x is neck and neck with Apple's fastest dual Xeon offering. Overclocking the 980x takes it into (as Mel Brooks would put it) "ludicrous speed."
Look at the top two listings of "Early 2009" MacPro's on the cinebench database:
http://www.cbscores.com/index.php?sort=rend&order=desc
Right below them, at .12 points behind, is a single processor 980x at probably a third of the cost.
I'll be glad when they supply a product I want to buy at a price I'm willing to pay.
People are pissed because they're locked into OS X with the previous hardware, software, and experience they've already invested in it, and Apple's screwing them over by not allowing them to keep up with the rest of the world (and at a HUGE premium at that).
I for one think Apple's products are far superior to anything offered with Windows. So you have a faster processor? So what, you can run a Photoshop filter in 10 seconds instead of 10.5 seconds! My Mac Pro has an aircraft-grade aluminum body! Your's is cheap plastic!
Apple offers LUXURY electronic products with a LUXURY OS. You get what you pay for. Go buy your cheap crap!
This is exactly what we've all been railing against: the idea that Apple has better quality products. The CASE, as you said, may be superior (debatable as it's obviously designed to thwart upgrades to the processor and is filled with extraneous metal for no reason). Their Motherboards and processors are fine too (albiet outdated).
However, many mac pros come with low quality HDD's and RAM, and the PSU failure rate on Mac Pros is amazing considering their limited release.
Compared to a home-built PC that would cost less than half as much (there are many recent threads on this), the quality and even the warranty is CRAP. 3 years (with overpriced Applecare)??? My HDDs have a 5 year and my RAM has a LIFETIME.
So no, you're not getting a "LUXURY" product. You're forced to buy crappy, out of date hardware inside a snazzy case for the opportunity to run OS X.
But... but only think of the joy of looking at it while you are waiting.
My work MacPro is under my desk.