Reason077
macrumors 601
Included chargers are not free. They're just included in the price you paid for the device. I bet a lot of people would opt to not take the charger if they got $30 or whatever off the price of the product.
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Apple's New 16-Inch MacBook Pro Charger Has a Compatibility Issue
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Included chargers are not free. They're just included in the price you paid for the device. I bet a lot of people would opt to not take the charger if they got $30 or whatever off the price of the product.
Reason077
macrumors 601
Are they exactly the same, though? Or reversed vertically? The pins have the same layout, but in China the power sockets are installed upside down on the wall compared to in Australia. So if the Apple power adapters are exactly the same, in China their Apple power adapters would be upside down with the USB-C port(s) facing upwards.
Reason077
macrumors 601
That is extremely unlikely. Apple's designs are specified with great levels of precision (highly detailed CAD files, etc). There is no leeway for suppliers to go changing designs like that.
My guess? Some dumb new regulation in China.
They're the same adapter with the same duck-head design. This is why the extension cable was so useful.
But if you're buying an additional charger in China they are sold with US plugs - so it makes it even more strange that they would change it just for China/Australia, since you couldn't adapt it to a Type I without the extension cable or travel kit.
johnsawyercjs
macrumors 68000
The latest version of Apple's 140W USB-C Power Adapter included with 16-inch MacBook Pro models with the M5 Pro or M5 Max chip has an issue for some.
After the 16-inch MacBook Pro was updated last month, customers in some countries began to notice that Apple's 140W USB-C Power Adapter that comes with it has a subtle design change that breaks compatibility with Apple's Power Adapter Extension Cable.
Specifically, while the charger continues to have a removable plug, Apple has apparently tweaked the design of the underlying male connector with two pins. The connector now has a slimmer pill-like shape, whereas it previously had a modified C7 design. Due to this change, the new charger does not work with Apple's Power Adapter Extension Cable, which still has a female connector designed to match the previous male connector.
The redesigned male connector (on the right in the photo)
Oddly, Apple's product page for the Power Adapter Extension Cable says the cable is compatible with its 140W USB-C power adapters, despite this issue.
Apple's discontinued World Travel Adapter Kit is also incompatible with the version of Apple's 140W USB-C Power Adapter with the redesigned male connector.
The new design has been spotted in Australia and China, but other customers have said their power adapters are not affected, so it is a hit-or-miss situation. We have yet to confirm exactly which countries are impacted by this issue, or if the 140W USB-C Power Adapter that Apple sells separately is affected by this change anywhere.
We have reached out to Apple for comment.
Article Link: Apple's New 16-Inch MacBook Pro Charger Has a Compatibility Issue
I asked Apple Support about this from the AU store.
I asked in regard to the MBP charger that comes in the box:
I need a 140W adapter that is compatible with existing extension cables. So I need to know which one comes in the box, and if it's not compatible, that Apple can swap it for one that is.
The response was:
Based on Apples official documentation, the MacBook Pro M5 Pro includes a 140WUSB-C Power Adapter, and Apple explicitly states that the current Power Adapter Extension Cable is compatible with 140W USB-C power adapters.
That means, by design and intent, the adapter that comes in the box is meant to work with existing Apple extension cables.
In the unlikely event that the adapter you receive does not match Apples stated compatibility, you would absolutely be able to return it, and Apple would ensure the correct, compatible solution is provided.
In short, Apple documents this compatibility clearly and if for any reason the hardware did not align with that is stated, Apple would make it right for you 🙂
Reason077
macrumors 601
So, just to be clear, if you have the standard Apple power adapter in China and plug it into a wall outlet, it's upside down compared to in other countries? The USB-C socket faces upwards?
Reason077
macrumors 601
Oh, you're right. I'm thinking of the 20W charger (and the new 40W dynamic charger) where the USB-C port faces the floor. Oops!
But the China one would still be "upside down" compared to other countries, with the plug/duck-head part on the floor side, right?
yes. And it is one reason why the extension cable is just better.
That's not how pricing works on "premium" high-margin products like a Mac. They're sold at strategically-chosen price points based on what the market will bear in that region - all very comfortably above the wholesale cost. Unless it's coincidence that (say) UK MacBook prices in pounds have long been the dollar prices with the sign changed (and that didn't chnge when they dropped the charger from the UK version) - or that the 2020 Apple Silicon MacBooks somehow came in at the exact same dollar price as their Intel predecessors...?
Apple have plenty of leeway to include a free or discounted charger as an option, but they sure as heck aren't going to knock the retail price of the charger (probably already a 3x mark-up over the actual cost) off their carefully crafted "price point".
Apple tried that.
People complained.
They brought back MagSafe.
Why they didn't have the full complement of 4 TB ports on M4 Macbooks & Minis is anybody's guess (given the iMac can manage it). I'm sure they could have contrived to fit an extra USB-C and MagSafe when they designed the MacBooks.
It's not clear whether or not there is/will be an official extension cable for the new design. The mushroom "lug" looks like its still metal (not plastic as per some unearthed iPod power supplies) so the possibility is still there.
The hypothetical safety issue is that, with the old style, you could plug in an ungrounded 2-pin extension cable.
Well, regs or not it makes sense that an extension cable is more likely to get trodden on, soaked, dropped in a bath or have the mains cable get damaged than a "wall wart" plugged directly into a power strip.
...and, in the past, Apple did go to the effort of adding the ground lug and making a grounded extension cable.
...or, maybe the new chargers don't have the metal lug grounded to anything, so the old extension cable would have a "fake ground" and fail regs.
...or maybe Apple have had problems with dangerous "fake" third party duck-head adapters in some countries and needed to lock them out.
...or maybe Apple are just being duckheads.
visualseed
macrumors 65816
Wallstreet had a black brick (which was eventually recalled). From Pismo through Titanium, there was the yo-yo style with a “Mickey Mouse” three-prong extension cable. iBooks featured a yo-yo style with a “figure 8” two-prong extension cable. Starting with the aluminum G4 PowerBook, we got the familiar white square.
FreakinEurekan
macrumors G3
I'd prefer an additional USB-C to a headphone jack. But I understand that the capabilities the jack provides to others, doesn't actually take anything away from me.
I like MagSafe for my wife's MacBook Air that she uses in bed... her prior computer (12" MacBook) eventually suffered a USB-C port failure from pressures on the connector. The MagSafe just - comes off 😉 if pushed in the wrong direction. So MagSafe is providing her a tangible benefit.
For me, my MacBook Pro plugs directly into my LG display via USB-C/Thunderbolt, which connects it to the display AND powers the computer. If I take it while traveling, I have a multi-port USB charger that handles the 5 or 6 items that need recharged including the Mac.
Bottom line, we're in agreement that cables shouldn't be included in the box. The benefit of "universal power" is that - it's universal! So it's no longer NECESSARY to include a charger, OR a charging cable. Let us each buy whatever cables we might need - ONCE - and quit putting landfill fodder in the box with devices.
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Knowing Apple and their fondness of $$$. It wouldn’t surprise me at all.
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visualseed
macrumors 65816
From what I’ve read, the pill shape is designed for safety, preventing arcing and fires on high-wattage chargers. It being a proprietary design is intentional, stopping the use of older, underrated, or third-party extension cables that could pose fire hazards. This change is actually a response to real-world incidents, not just a “because-we-can” design choice.
Mainyehc
macrumors 6502a
Ahh, thanks for the clarification. I usually lump the Wallstreet and the Pismo as almost the same machine in my head, but maybe I’m getting confused with the later (or earlier?) black/bronze keyboard change. And I did know that the iBooks had the yo-yo brick, I just didn’t remember whether the TiBook also came with it. I guess it’s the only thing, besides the hinge design and the fact that it was still coated instead of bare, that can’t be considered “modern” or “current” about the TiBook, it’s insane just how well that overall design aged and stuck.
Mainyehc
macrumors 6502a
If that is the case, why don’t they come clean about it? And why didn’t they properly made those two otherwise similar 140W chargers more visually distinct, like they did before with some iPhone cube chargers that had a conspicuous green dot on them? And why didn’t they feature a grounded extension cable in their store from day one (let alone a revised World Travel Adapter Kit, or at the very least the individual adapters or whatever), considering the charger does feature the metal prong to connect one to? It all feels extremely amateurish for a company the size of Apple, and for wares as premium as theirs.
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btrach144
macrumors 68040
The only person needing a call out is you then.
In August 1997, Microsoft made a historic investment of $150 million in Apple, which was crucial in saving the company from bankruptcy.
Apple is the only company here that wouldn’t be real if the other hadn’t saved it.
Mainyehc
macrumors 6502a
Two observations:
Apple could always make a hybrid charger, with the semi-proprietary, one-notch design (the standard C8 plug has two), but a plastic pin like they had on their iPod chargers (they had proper, standard C7 connectors, with two ridges, which meant the grounded cables couldn’t even physically slot in them, let alone make contact with the live and neutral prongs, but this meant that these bricks could very much use the same ungrounded adapters that also came with the larger, grounded bricks from later iBooks and PowerBooks and all MacBooks, Pro or otherwise, and also iPads). Or is the assumption, even if outright stupid just by looking at the number of metal prongs on any connector, from the end-user that something is grounded that is the issue? I kind of get it, and it maybe explains why those bricks I was talking about aren’t compatible with either Apple’s semi-proprietary C8 cables or with IEC C6 cables, in both cases by design.
In any case that is a moot point; there is a teardown of these new seemingly China- and Australia-bound bricks (and hopefully they’ll stay there; it’s Model A3607, in case you’re interested and/or wish to avoid them), and yes, the metal ground pin is very much connected to where it should on the brick’s circuit board:
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visualseed
macrumors 65816
I’m don't know why Apple doesn’t speak publicly about these things. That's a question for them. And I have no visivibility of their future product plans or business decisions about what they sell. From what I understand, this is to address something they discovered over time through real-world useage. The current C7 connectors aren’t doing a great job of preventing micro-arcing and heat buildup. There’s too much play in them, and since they’re a standard, people are using other inferior cables and adapters that worked fine when wattage was lower. Even though UL and IEC haven’t updated the C7 spec, other companies have tweaked their connectors to make them sturdier or fit more snugly like Sony, Razer, and others. HP has historically used C5 connectors for its chargers but has recently started reinforcing those as well. Apple didn’t just change the connector’s external shape to have tighter tolerances it also altered the design of the pins and sleeves that encase them to make better contact and resist spreading over time.
goldmac2006
macrumors 604
Seems like they made it a proprietary thing for now. That pill shaped opening for the duck head really ruined it.
Why is that a safety issue? The supplied duckhead adapter is only 2 pin, so a 2 pin extension cable doesn't change anything.
urtules
macrumors 6502
They are not grounded, I use extension cables not for the length, but to add grounding.
The third "pin" is the metal mushroom that slots into the duckhead. Few (if any) of the plug-in adapters used it but the Apple extension cable does/did.
It's pretty obvious that a charger & extension cable are more vulnerable to damage, water exposure etc. than a charger plugged directly into a wall - which is probably why Apple originally went to all the effort of making a grounded extension cable.
All people are doing is trying to guess a reason for Apple to change the connector.