Apple's Pandora-Killer Delayed Over Song Licensing Negotiations

[FlameofAnor]

Not expecting devotion. I know Apple's bread and butter now is iOS and the iToys.
The thing is the desktop professional line is abandoned. Only portables have seem serious updates. But again, I am still hopeful something might come up in the next 12 months that might finally make us happy.

The iMac line has been updated fairly regularly, and you can do "professional" work on them. It all depends on what your profession is.

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The post reports that Apple wants better licencing rates, which I read to be paying less to Sony. It's very fair

Also, why should Sony feel compelled to enter into a streaming agreement with Apple? Sony want a price that Apple weren't willing to pay, therefore no transaction took place. You can say that sales might increase through directing through the iTunes stores, however that particular deal would mean Sony get less revenue on streams than Pandora and Spotify, then Apple takes 30% of the album revenue through iTunes anyway.

Sony have many vested interests. They sell music players, music, desktop machines, laptops, tablets, smartphones. What possible incentive is there for them to bend over and accept a worse offer on streaming when the whole deal threatens their music player/tablet/smartphone/content business model?

When Apple offers enough money, Sony will give access to the content

I'll admit the reports are conflicting...... they seem to suggest that Sony wants more money from Apple, while Apple wants a lower rate. Only Sony and Apple know for sure what's being discussed.

Of course Sony will protect it's own interests, but without Apple, where would these record companies be today? They were getting killed by online piracy, until Apple gave them a way to make digital downloads profitable. A streaming service From Apple would seem to be a more direct way to get additional digital sales, since it will all be under the same one-click umbrella.

 

[Gemütlichkeit]

Pandora killer? Rigggggggggght.

Believe it or not there's not much to pandora. They're just the first to really pioneer the tech. Imagine people saying this same thing back when ICQ was popular.

An ICQ killer? Rigggggggggght.

 

[sswanky]

Please don't kill Pandora. I really like it.

 

[newyorkone]

Apparently Sony still thinks they have a chance with the Walkman. It's amazing how a$$-backwards they are and it's a wonder how any of their high level managers are still employed...

 

[Tech198]

dam music industry always gets in the way doesn't it.

Spotify would have been better.

 

[smoledman]

Meanwhile Lumia Windows Phones are already rockin' Zune Pass AND Nokia Music!

 

[faroZ06]

I certainly enjoy Spotify. I'm sure Apple, with a much larger catalog, can offer a better service.

Speaking of that, I saw a SpotifyWebHelper process running and closing repeatedly on a MacBook Pro. It was using 50% CPU while running. I think it was also crashing, or at least I saw a lot of crash reports for it. Googling this issue resulted in pages on how to delete the program, which is probably not good to do. WTF?

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Please don't kill Pandora. I really like it.

The quality on Pandora is ridiculously bad, at least in the free version. It's better to just use FM radio.

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Isn't launching a "pandora-like" music service kind of like launching a "myspace-like" social network?

All the cool kids use Spotify.

There's nothing cool about wasting CPU time.

 

[Richie504LA]

Pandora has nothing on slacker radio and unless apple has slacker's offline caching for $4.99 I'm not switching.

 

[charlituna]

the New York Post = the American Digitimes

If they are doing something it is hopefully the return of LaLa.com integrated into Genius and Ping to place the poorly handled first run of Ping. Limiting Ping to use big labels was the first issue. Not adding value like how LaLa would let you one time full play a song was another. LaLa even had a clue feature where you could upload your iTunes library data and stream the songs you own all you wanted. You could share playlists, follow users you liked etc. all that Ping could have been but never got there. So now they can do it, change the name to get rid of the bad taste associations etx

And then perhaps work on the quality etc of their video side, the overall poor metadata etc

 

[charlituna]

But this isn't something totally new. All they'd have to do is enable streaming of songs.

you mean all they have to do is get the legal right to do so

Streaming is most definitely classified as broadcasting so they have to have the okay from the copyright holders

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The record companies fail because they want to protect their property? But Apple taking the lions share of the profit is ok? A bit hypocritical, isn't it? And we all know how generous Apple is with licensing and sharing, don't we?

Not sure what math you are working with. Apple pays the label 70% of the sale on top of any other fees just to list the songs.

So how do you get that Appe gets the lions share?

 

[Nermal]

MacRumors, if it's suppose to be a service "built into the iPhone 5", how can you call it a Pandora-Killer, a popular service available to everyone (in the U.S.)?

Where do you live? It's available here in NZ and we're usually one of the last to get these things!

 

[charlituna]

Sure they can but they have not being doing that as of late.

You can't really say that as you have zero proof of who has been working on what

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I would rather Apple put their efforts into other areas, like finally adding the option to buy lossless music on the iTunes Store. If they can sell SD and HD films and tv shows they can do the same with music. It would also help to differentiate iTunes from the likes of Pandora and Spotify who stream compressed music.
.

Legalities. That is why there are region restrictions etc as well

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Please don't kill Pandora. I really like it.

Barking up the wrong tree. Only Pandora will kill Pandora. If and when this service releases and they go bankrupt because they lose too many users.

Until that happens, nothing to see here

 

[Appleseeds]

I had one album art not show up in my library and it annoyed the hell out of me. That killed iTunes Match for me. That and plus it would stream censored versions of songs I had.

But you continue on here, with the mass censorship that goes on .
For one in your original quoted post.

 

[KdParker]

people still use Pandora? Why use that when you can stream whatever music you want. Not there predetermined play list.

 

[macs4nw]

When Apple blatantly copies someone elses idea it's embraced here. When it's the other way around thousands of macrumors users become the patent police crying foul.

Streaming has been around for quite a while; unless someone has it patented, it's a free-for-all.

....of course Sony will protect it's own interests, but without Apple, where would these record companies be today? They were getting killed by online piracy, until Apple gave them a way to make digital downloads profitable. A streaming service From Apple would seem to be a more direct way to get additional digital sales, since it will all be under the same one-click umbrella.

You make a valid point. They were getting killed by piracy until the iTunes store came along. However ALL companies protect their interests; it's just posturing, sooner or later, one of them sees the light of day, and they come to a mutually beneficial agreement.

Apparently Sony still thinks they have a chance with the Walkman. It's amazing how a$$-backwards they are and it's a wonder how any of their high level managers are still employed...

I wouldn't agree with that assessment: Their Walkmans were-at the time-revolutionary; DAT was basically killed by recording industry lobbyists, who held it up/delayed it so long, that it became irrelevant to all but professional musicians, after which came MiniDisc, which was great until the convenience of iTunes and a year later the iTunes Store, put that to pasture as well. Quality comes at a premium, and they have fallen on hard times as of late, mainly due to fierce competition from SAMSUNG. Their XBR TVs imho are still among the very best available today!

 

[riverfreak]

Apple desperately needs to enter the crush of streaming services.

I'm speaking from experience. Over what, about 30 years collecting vinyl and CDs amassing over 5k albums now all digitized, I rarely listen to them. Instead, I use Sirius for ad-free, quality radio, Spotify for on demand stuff I may once have pulled from my library, pandora and songza for discovery.

See anything missing here? That's right, I no longer buy music. And I'm an old fart.

Can't imagine that anyone under 30 does either. So where does that leave the iTunes business model?

 

[AidenShaw]

Streaming has been around for quite a while; unless someone has it patented, it's a free-for-all.

Rectangular slabs with rounded corners have been around for a long time too - watch the original Star Trek TV episodes from 1966.

Didn't stop Apple's legal team, though....

(in case you don't get the reference - watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xF8E6CvEAU)

 

[Schtumple]

I love how all the media industries are so utterly inept at just getting on board new technology and figuring out the accountancy part later.

EDIT: Before any smart ass chimes in with a sarcastic reply. You know full well what I mean.

 

[derondantzler]

Instead of that, why not take the iTunes Match platform, turn it into a Spotify competitor, increase the price to $10-$15 per month. If Spotify can secure the licensing agreements, I'm sure Apple can. People that want to own songs can still buy them. The world is a better place.

Or don't, and we Spotify users will stick to Spotify and not look back at iTunes. I understand that Apple feels like Spotify isn't a threat, but why thumb their nose at a potential $800+ million revenue stream per year that is only growing?

 

[MuppetGate]

Not expecting devotion. I know Apple's bread and butter now is iOS and the iToys.
The thing is the desktop professional line is abandoned. Only portables have seem serious updates. But again, I am still hopeful something might come up in the next 12 months that might finally make us happy.

Oh, I'm sure it will come, but it won't make you happy.

 

[rorschach]

you mean all they have to do is get the legal right to do so

Streaming is most definitely classified as broadcasting so they have to have the okay from the copyright holders

No what I meant is, it would be easy for Apple to do because it's just another way of delivering music, not a whole different industry/service that they've never done before like maps are.

 

[donlphi]

Yeah... I'm not sure it's Pandora they need to be concerning themselves with. Pandora is pretty antiquated compared to Spotify. I used to spend about $50 a month on iTunes music and an occasional movie rental or something.

However, ever since I discovered Spotify, I almost never need to buy anything. My last iTunes purchase was the New Mumford & Sons album, but I felt like an idiot because Spotify had it the next day.

I could deal with it with ADS if I wanted it for free, but I do pay $10 a month to go advertisement free and allow for streaming on my phone.

IMO Spotify is king right now. Apple better get out of the stone age with it's business model or they will be left in the dust.

 

[japasneezemonk]

If they do this by including it in itunes match, even if there is a slight price hike I'd be extremely happy. When it comes to entertainment, I already spend about 22/month for audible, +-15/month on e-music(legacy plan with 50 songs a month--i should really cancel but i'm just too lazy, plus i find a gem every once in a while), 8/month for Netflix, 30/month ipad data, 75+/month iphone, 100+/month to dish network, 70/month to my ISP(COX), 20-30/month on Kindle books (aspirational books that i never read), I also buy episodes of Breaking Bad, etc... on itunes since I hate the way the DVR on Dish works. The only reason I have the DVR at all was to record Entourage and now Boardwalk Empire on HBO. The way I see it, If i'm going to pay another $120 a year to rent music, I might as well buy it. I only use spotify on my mac (i don't mind the ads, they remind me of listening to the radio). plus, why pay $10/month when i like ads. I don't understand people who hate ads, i find them entertaining. Back when I was an undergrad-(about 10 years ago, when people still read newspapers)- I bought the paper every day and would read the entire paper front to back, then if there was time I would look over the ads for anything interesting (yeah, maybe i was bored but if you had ride public transit for 1 1/2 hours every day you'd understand what it really means to have of free time i guess ads help me reminisce.

 

[EbookReader]

If Apple wants to create another internet radio like Pandora, it doesn't need to negotiate with Sony or Universal or Warner Music or anybody. Just pay the statutory rate that was set up by Congress.


http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/201...-comparison-of-how-much-various-services-pay/

2010 $0.00097
2011 $0.00102
2012 $0.00110
2013 $0.00120
2014 $0.00130
2015 $0.00140


Anyone can do this. If I want to set up a legal online radio station tomorrow like Pandora, I can do it and pay the statutory rate of $0.0011 per stream.

100 songs stream = $0.0011 x 100 = $0.11
1000 songs stream = $1.1 payment

If I can generate enough money from ads to pay for the $1.1 royalties for every 1000 songs stream, I would break-even.




Spotify like service, which is on-demand, will require licensing.

 

[roxxette]

Not using pandora anymore, was really into spotify but i cancelled last week and im now using rhapsody i love speed metal and progressive metal rhapsody have me more cover than spotify in that area plus they have all the major stuff anyway; audio quality is the same as spotify and you can also "download" the songs; really wish they come up with ipad app i know napster had a ipad app so i dont understand why they didnt use the napster one as a barebone.