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I presume this is a comparison with the included adapter Apple supply with the iPhone.
Yes.
However a well designed system with proper consideration given to cleaning/isolating the DAC/audio stage from the noisy iPhone power voltage rails
Unless the external DAC/amp has its own power supply, it would be affected by this as well.
will give improvements over the iPhone less than high quality audio via the headphones output. Sony are the phones for good quality headphone jack signal. Followed by HTC.
According to the c't measurements, the iPhone's analog output is actually pretty good ("compares favorably even with professional audio interfaces").
 
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Yes.
Unless the external DAC/amp has its own power supply, it would be affected by this as well.
According to the c't measurements, the iPhone's analog output is actually pretty good ("compares favorably even with professional audio interfaces").
Of course a noisy power rail can be cleaned up. A couple of poles of passive filtering using quality dielectrics can reduce high frequency noise significantly.

A Marshall amp is a piece of professional equipment designed to add distortion. Professional doesn't mean high quality.
 
Of course a noisy power rail can be cleaned up. A couple of poles of passive filtering using quality dielectrics can reduce high frequency noise significantly.
And what makes you think Apple isn't doing something like this internally?
A Marshall amp is a piece of professional equipment designed to add distortion. Professional doesn't mean high quality.
I'm sure that's what they meant. :rolleyes:
 
And what makes you think Apple isn't doing something like this internally?
I'm sure that's what they meant. :rolleyes:
I was replying to the point that implied one would be stuck with the noise levels unless one used a separate psu.

On the second point, do you know how big COG capacitors of the necessary value are?


If you go to a pop/rock concert, they use professional PAs. These are rugged, high power systems. Not particularly Hifi grade components. Professional doesn't mean high quality audio. And I would expect high quality audio to be better than "pretty good"
 
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If you go to a pop/rock concert, they use professional PAs. These are rugged, high power systems. Not particularly Hifi grade components. Professional doesn't mean high quality audio. And I would expect high quality audio to be better than "pretty good"
High price doesn't mean high quality either. (common issue with audiophiles)
 
I remember when everybody griped about Macs loosing the DVD drive - it's 2016 - and it's time to cut the cord.

Difference was that almost no one was still using the DVD at that point.
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When you have to move forward with backward compatibility thats the best you can hope for
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Are you delusional? You put "poor people who want to get into music" and "iPhone" in the same sentence. Literally EVERYTHING is cheaper to get into making music than an iPhone, especially the latest model. Your argument is flawed.
My MIDI controller works over BT, and I have a 3$ ebay BT>3.5mm dongle to connect all my devices to my cheapzy 1980s JVC HiFi tower. It's a century old standard, get over it.



Oh wow. If you have money for the 5.5" iPhone, then you can afford a crossplatform crossgeneration interface like this:
http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/duet

there are more, and there are cheaper.

actually, anything serious for performing calls for an audio interface. any engineer will shudder if they need to pull an unbalanced connection from stage to their board across the venue...

seriously, the more you talk about it the less sense you make.

That Apogee interface is not portable at all. It is huge and needs to be connected to the mains. And you are wrong; the 3.5mm port is totally sufficient for live performance and recording. I have used it in both with absolutely no issues.

Also, many carriers offer iPhone for free with a contract. Just because you can afford an iPhone does not mean you necessarily have lots of extra cash. I am not the one whose argument is flawed. They are always going to get more people into creating music with iOS when the barrier to entry is lower. There are plenty of kids who get iPhones from their parents but still don't have lots of extra cash to blow on interfaces.

The worst thing about needing an external interface to get analog audio output is the fact that the interfaces are bulky and have short Lightning cables, meaning that you cannot use it while holding the phone during a performance or having it in a pocket or worn case. There are no MFI certified lightning extension cables.

I am just really annoyed that they removed the 3.5mm port, which I use every day WHILE using the Lightning port for other things, without offering any kind of wireless replacement for it (yet claiming that wireless is the future and we should all go wireless etc.). Well if they want me to go wireless then where is a module that has analog audio output connectors and receives audio over the air from the iOS device, latency free and uncompressed, at least at the same quality as the old 3.5mm port? If going wireless is the point, then why do all the "solutions" involve hooking up some bulky dongle or hub that will mean even more wires and connectors etc., since now I will need at least a Lightning splitter, plus something to go from Lightning to at least one analog IO port?
 
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Beats instantly comes to mind - and what the name of that other company? Escapes me at the moment

Yeah, but beats aren't really audiophile price. (although they're horrible)
Difference was that almost no one was still using the DVD at that point.

? 2012, bluray was just happening and it was going to be used. They didn't cut "DVD", they cut optical media. And there was a similar "hurr-durr" outrage about "apple y u no BluRay" as it is about headphone jack.

That Apogee interface is not portable at all. It is huge and needs to be connected to the mains. And you are wrong; the 3.5mm port is totally sufficient for live performance and recording. I have used it in both with absolutely no issues.

Also, many carriers offer iPhone for free with a contract. Just because you can afford an iPhone does not mean you necessarily have lots of extra cash. I am not the one whose argument is flawed. They are always going to get more people into creating music with iOS when the barrier to entry is lower. There are plenty of kids who get iPhones from their parents but still don't have lots of extra cash to blow on interfaces.

The worst thing about needing an external interface to get analog audio output is the fact that the interfaces are bulky and have short Lightning cables, meaning that you cannot use it while holding the phone during a performance or having it in a pocket or worn case. There are no MFI certified lightning extension cables.

I am just really annoyed that they removed the 3.5mm port, which I use every day WHILE using the Lightning port for other things, without offering any kind of wireless replacement for it (yet claiming that wireless is the future and we should all go wireless etc.). Well if they want me to go wireless then where is a module that has analog audio output connectors and receives audio over the air from the iOS device, latency free and uncompressed, at least at the same quality as the old 3.5mm port? If going wireless is the point, then why do all the "solutions" involve hooking up some bulky dongle or hub that will mean even more wires and connectors etc., since now I will need at least a Lightning splitter, plus something to go from Lightning to at least one analog IO port?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...eywh_plugkey_mobile_midi_audio_interface.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._irig_produo_in_irig_pro_universal_audio.html

there are more.

"Totally sufficient" =! good. also, if you gig, you can afford to carry the belkin 2x lightning adapter and the bundled lightning>3.5mm. It's not a big investment, 40$. But you talk about having to connect it to mains as a problem, which means you don't plan to charge + perform at the same time anyway, so Lightning>3.5mm should be fine.

Also, many carriers offer iPhone for free with a contract. Just because you can afford an iPhone does not mean you necessarily have lots of extra cash. I am not the one whose argument is flawed.
I don't know how it is in the US, but in Europe, a "contract" usually means you pay for service+phone on a contract, and in the long run you pay the same or even 10% more for the phone. That's usually not how you save money...

There are plenty of kids who get iPhones from their parents but still don't have lots of extra cash to blow on interfaces.

40$ for an adapter is like a pack of bass strings, and if using lightning adapter hinder kid's music making SO MUCH, well, tough ****? I really don't see it as a problem... We had crummy 10$ rhythm machines to practice guitar with. We did have headphone jacks though, so at least that's something?

Holding it while performing can be done with lightning >3.5mm and you can extened the 3.5mm as you did before. And you can't extend lightning for charging while you do that anyway, as you couldn't before (becasue MFI). If you perform while holding it, wireless beats being tied to anything anyway...
(I use a non MFI lightning extension cord and it works fine though)

Well if they want me to go wireless then where is a module that has analog audio output connectors and receives audio over the air from the iOS device, latency free and uncompressed, at least at the same quality as the old 3.5mm port?

40$
https://www.amazon.com/Avantree-Latency-Bluetooth-Receiver-Transmitter/dp/B00LAZ6RTW
http://www.csr.com/products/aptx-low-latency


, since now I will need at least a Lightning splitter, plus something to go from Lightning to at least one analog IO port?"
Belkin did it the way they did so it would work without additional dongles with supplied lightning hadphones, i'm sure accessories that cater your specific needs will be released. (so, one single splitter to 3.5mm and lightning)

I'm sure simple inline audio interfaces with necessary outputs will be released soon that will cater your specific needs. You're not in a majority. Since 2013, mac pro has lacked the ability to connect PCIe interfaces. Which is significantly more problematic and involves a more complex solution than a 9$ dongle.

Maybe they're wrong, but if they are, they're going to sink for it, if they're not, they'll redefine how we use computers.
 
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thats nice, just be prepared to buy another one after the battery dies on you...
I have been using BT stereo headsets ever since they came out and nowadays I only prefer them when working out.
Same here. Only workout headphones are Bluetooth for me.
 
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So you can pay $649 for an iPhone 7, but you're offend at the suggestion that you buy other accessories? So this equates you to the starving masses of 18th century France being told by Marie Antoinette to eat cake.
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Yes, indeed. Only multimillionaires can afford a $649 smartphone plus accessories.
Its not 649$ Add the airpods and then buy them outside USA
 
Maybe they're wrong, but if they are, they're going to sink for it, if they're not, they'll redefine how we use computers.

Or maybe what they redefine is the business. Making more money from licensing fees and saving on cheaper components.

What about the customers?... "They'll figure it out".

$$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$ $$$

Por dinero baila el mono.
 
I wonder if apple considered the lag from Bluetooth. Today I decided to use my Bluetooth headset that can also connect wired and now my video and audio is out of sync. This will happen a lot in crowded areas.
 
And this is going to help me how, when I'm using this device in a car on a 12-hour (battery-draining) trip for both podcasts/music and GPS? This is my iPhone's #1 usage scenario. (My 2015 car doesn't have bluetooth, by the way.) I'm not doing anything hastily, but this is precisely this kind of customer-bullying and taking-for-granted and accessory-marketing baloney that will very likely move me to Android. Grr!!!! As another angry Apple-lover pointed out elsewhere on this forum, why not do away with the alphabet as well? It's analog, inefficient, and _thousands_ of years old.

It didn't take "courage" to make this decision. It took downright arrogance. I've been using nothing but bluetooth headsets for many years now-- I was an early adopter. But.... What about cars?
I do have to point out, in iOS 10 there is now a "replace text with emoji" feature, so it seems Apple is already ahead of you on the whole replacing the alphabet thing.
 
Did you go back in time or something?

6 year old volkswagen. Music-from-iPhone-over-USB stopped working with iOS 8. Still charges fine over USB, but the auxiliary cable is necessary for music. Not really interested in paying for a new car stereo in order to listen to music and use the phone's GPS at the same time.
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I accept what you say. My experience of 24bit audio is with music that was released on SA-CD and DVD audio already.
24bit has very limited availability and is only suitable for people with high quality audio. It not suitable for an iPhone for instance. The large file size of over 1Gb for the average album makes it unsuitable for smart phones without removable media. Compare the time to transfer 30 albums to a new phone over a cable compared to transferring an SD card.

For the vast majority of users, a CD is not inferior to media downloads and is the better option for best quality. One can always rip to their prefered format with a CD.

24-bit is actually pretty widely available now. HDTracks has a huge library and there are 5-6 other storefronts with lots of other albums and who do their own mastering. Tons of independent artists release in 24-bit via Bandcamp and other direct-sale type sites as well.

1 GB would be for a 24-bit/192khz album, but 24/96 and 24/48 are much smaller. I never really feel the need to have more than 100 albums on my phone at a time between syncs to my computer, anyways.

Speaking of high quality audio and smart phones with removable media, there are phones like the LG V20 that fit the bill, and hopefully will be successful enough to spur more companies to move in that direction.
 
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