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Apple's Phil Schiller Takes the Stand in Epic Games v. Apple Trial

twintin said:
It's probably not just the week event, but also lot of preparation prior that event.
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At our company everytime a big meeting or conference gathering happens we have fun calculating how much only in employee’s attention time that would cost: being a tech company we usually put a $50 per hour average (is that low? I got no clue), they can be as big as 200 sometimes 500 attendees and can extend for two hours, that’s already a range of $20K to $50K for a couple of hours of attention span. Not counting that for big meetings a good trio of big wigs worth 10x the $50/hr tend to be present too (they basically count as 10+ normal employees each).
If we do the same for a week’s worth of events, if we say that there are 200 Apple employees full time in charge for the week, at $50 per hour (for the seven days?) it’s already $560K in just employee’s time... and that’s without broadcasting, preparations, all related infrastructure. Heck if 200 people have to spend 2 months in pre production for it it’s already another ~$4M in just the person presence... no electricity, resources, materials, outsourcing, services, etc etc etc yet added on top.
It can definitely add up to dozens of millions at least.
 
Stewie said:
I assumed this was pretty easy to figure out, but I guess I was wrong.

The difference is that if my book doesn't show up, I have to reach out to Amazon to get my money back. If the skin doesn't show up Apple has to give me my money back.
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nothing you said there precludes Apple from providing refunds from either service scenerio. I assumed that was pretty easy to figure out, but I guess making up stuff helps you sleep at night.
 
haydn! said:
Everyone trying to figure out where that $50m is going, and only focusing on Apple people costs? You're all missing some pretty hefty lines off that invoice!

  • Entire venue hire (probably best part of 2-3 weeks solid for setup, event, tear down)
  • AV set-up and crew, not just for the main keynote, but all those breakout sessions too. Most large venues come as an empty shell. You have to hire everything from carpets to cabling, as well as your lighting, staging and screens...
  • Physical environment - Apple brand the sh*t out of that venue. Those full glass building wraps they've done won't come cheap.
  • Keynote production - intro videos, product videos, etc, etc
  • Keynote streaming/broadcasting - Apple will be having to hire and dedicate some pretty big resources to simultaneously broadcast WWDC live around the world. Quite possibly involving hiring saterlite or two.
  • Breakout session recording and editing - over 100 seperate seminars filmed, edited, etc
  • Catering for several thousand people for 5 event days and multiple set-up/tear down days.
  • All the merch and promo callateral they'll be handing out.
  • And so much more!
An event of this scale, I can see it totalling up pretty big in the end. But just because it 'costs' $50million, doesn't mean that's the bottom line as Apple will be covering some of that with the ticket sales.
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Damn, I totally didn’t thought about potential satellite procuring to ensure online time, can make total sense... any idea how much could that run for the time live? Several millions is my clueless uneducated guess.
 
Smalltalk said:
Without my permission!
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No, I happened to be listening to the live stream at the point this question was asked.

Phil explicity said, "if they get consent". So, it has to form part of the 'can we access your data/track you' prompts within an app. Only then is made available to the developer.
 
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Rogifan said:
Schiller said that Apple hoped, in 2008, that the App Store would make money. However in a Wall Street Journal interview at the time Steve Jobs said different.

IPhone Software Sales Take Off: Apple's Jobs - WSJ

www.wsj.com www.wsj.com

View attachment 1776303

It seems clear that in the beginning the 30% was to cover the cost of starting up the App Store and process credit card transactions. Jobs wasn’t pitching it as something Apple deserved because Apple was supplying developers customers. Jobs felt apps would make the hardware more compelling and thus drive more hardware sales. Once hardware growth started to slow Cook & Co. decided to pivot towards “services” revenue (the bulk of which comes from the App Store tax/commission) to make up for declining hardware revenue. It’s pretty clear now Apple doesn’t need 30% to run the App Store. It‘s no longer about the cost of running the App Store it’s about ensuring the App Store is very profitable.
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So, Apple hardware sells slowed and service revenue grew. That statement alone indicates that Apple as a whole, needs the App Store to do well. I'm not sure what is wrong with that, businesses adapt all the time. It would be nice if Apple offered indie developers and small businesses a discount, but at the same time, I don't see that through other platforms. Often other platforms have such an initial high cost of entry that small developers don't have a chance, even if they only take a 30% cut.

Just looking for a little more information. It appears that Epic charges 5% commission/royalties for using their game engine after developers make their first $1 million. Epic also has an App Store. I can see why they'd want to put their own App Store on Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo hardware, but they've chosen to go for iPhone first (their existing user base is much larger on the former, but the latter has the most growth potential). Does anyone know how much it cost small developers to have Epic distribute their games on the Epic stores?

One final thought. I'm an old school gamer, though I don't suppose I can call myself that anymore since I don't really have time for it. I still remember the days before app stores and launchers, and miss when you'd just buy a game from the developers. Now you need a high powered PC just to run the launchers, err store apps, and it's all about tracking users, monitoring in realtime. I'd love to be able to install any app on my phone straight from the developers, but at the same time I wouldn't do it, I know that introduces all sort of security risks, which I've never experienced on my iPhone and don't have time to handle. I let Apple handle it. Given what we've all seen happen to PCs over the years, I'm sure no one wants that mess on their phones, neither the invasive App Store/launchers nor the wide-open nature of PCs. Maybe Apple could offer both? A blank empty hardware iPhone to cater to gamers, call it the Epic iPhone, and a secure normal iPhone for the rest of us. Epic would then be free to slap whatever OS and App Store of their own on it. Win win.
 
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Aeronauts said:
Their jobs are whatever Apple tells them to do. They are not developing Apple products during that period but they are helping developers built apps that Apple takes a 30% cut from. So they are still making money for Apple.
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In most large companies, projects like this get their own cost center. All expenses and use of internal labour is then invoiced to that project and cost center.

The reason is opportunity costs. Those people could have done something else instead of preparing and staying at WWDC.

Everyone who works for planning, organising and executing WWDC should count as costs for WWDC.
 
haydn! said:
No, I happened to be listening to the live stream at the point this question was asked.

Phil explicity said, "if they get consent". So, it has to form part of the 'can we access your data/track you' prompts within an app. Only then is made available to the developer.
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Which live stream are you referring to? From the courthouse? Read the AppleInsider article that quotes Phil.
 
Jared Strike said:
Schiller is an absolute cheerleader for Apple and I am sure he will ensure his points are clear and concise and give Apple a major win in this stupid trial.
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Schiller is much too overweight to be a cheerleader. He'd have to lose about 85 pounds to even be considered an average weight for his height.
 
Smalltalk said:
Which live stream are you referring to? From the courthouse? Read the AppleInsider article that quotes Phil.
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Yes the courthouse. The AI article doesn't quote Phil in this particular part, only provides a summary of what was discussed. There was definately references to consent before any data would be shared.
 
haydn! said:
Yes the courthouse. The AI article doesn't quote Phil in this particular part, only provides a summary of what was discussed. There was definately references to consent before any data would be shared.
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Great! Thank you.
 
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