Apple's rise and fall

Discussion in 'Apple, Inc and Tech Industry' started by, Nov 20, 2016.


Is Apple Falling?

  1. Yes

  2. No

  1. macrumors 603

    May 26, 2016
    Found this video on YouTube and genuinely felt like the guy made valid points. Having been with Apple for this long, I tend to feel that Apple is doing more wrong than right at this point as well.

  2. Ulenspiegel macrumors 68030


    Nov 8, 2014
    Land of Flanders and Elsewhere
    Very interesting video, thanks for posting.
    He did make valid points, w/o a doubt.
  3. unclemax macrumors regular

    Sep 25, 2015
    I agree with some of his points. Particularly the pricing: where is sub-$1000 laptop? I specifically have college students in mind, I think existing Macs are too expensive for them. I want to see an entry-level machine.

    But I totally disagree with the following:

    1) Touch on macOS. What does he even mean? Does he want to have an iOS/macOS hybrid like windows, because otherwise I have no idea why would I want to use my fat fingers to press tiny buttons and sliders in macOS. I have seen people using Windows tablets and all of them use mice for precisely the reason I described, when working in desktop version it's clumsy to try using your fingers to do things. Windows keyboard cover for tablets even has a tiny trackpad. Nuff said. And by the way you have a way to use touch on macOS. The amazing multitouch trackpad. I don't even own a mouse anymore.

    2) Dropping the headphone jack is controversial. But. How is it making users buy wireless EarPods if wired EarPods with lightning jack are included?

    3) Dropping I/O ports. Sure, it may be controversial for pros who use this technology daily, like SD cards, but I only use mini DVI to VGA almost daily for external monitor, keyboard and trackpad connect wirelessly. Probably this dude being a vlogger uses SD cards heavily and that's why this is the end of the world issue for him.

    Otherwise, I think he missed the point that services are innovation, too. App Store is alive and well, so is the iTunes and iBooks stores. They've added Apple Music which is pretty good IMO and brought apps to Apple TV. Also, integration between Apple products is getting better.

    And by the way I don't remember much different "innovation" during Jobs days going from the original iPhone to iPhone 4S and his death in 2011. Actually in my opinion the most innovative iPhone design was 5c but lack of demand killed it since it looked "too cheap".
  4. thread starter macrumors 603

    May 26, 2016
    I agree with you on the first point, touch on laptop or desktop is not the correct solution IMO as well.

    But the other points turns out to be valid for me as well. Headphone jack is a huge deal for me and providing dongles is not a type of solution that Apple is normally known for. They've either told people to suck it up when they removed things or provided better solution instead. Wifi headphones instead of the headphone jack is neither of that.

    Also, removal of literally every other io ports from a "pro" device is plain stupid. I have no idea why they're so adamant at pushing people to carry dongles around. It's not a better solution. At all.!
  5. Zirel Suspended


    Jul 24, 2015
    So this YouTuber, where 99% of his videos is criticizing Apple for everything they make says that Apple is doomed?

    They stopped counting...
  6. Bubble99 macrumors 6502

    Mar 15, 2015
    No it just Apple has turn into i-gadget company and moved away from Mac cult they even keep changing names like Mac OS-X, OS-X, macOS so on.

    Apple is distancing them self from Mac. Even making OS look and feel more like iOS than OS-X.

    The de-emphasize on video presentation by DVI port in companies, HTMI port in graphics of two or three monitor.

    Apple market shifted to college kids using netbooks and notbooks than laptop.

    Well Dell is taking over the graphics part of it these days and looks like Microsoft is jumping in now with Microsoft studio.
  7. MathersMahmood macrumors 6502


    Sep 5, 2016
    There is this guy on YouTube i watch every now and again. I do not really like all of his videos but some I do as he makes good points. This video in particular caught my eye and I thought I'd share it with you guys and gals to see what your opinions are on the matter.

    Let me know what you guys think :)

    Take Care
  8. ARSC macrumors 6502

    Jun 27, 2010
  9. HEK macrumors 68040


    Sep 24, 2013
    US Eastern time zone
    Quite valid points made in the video. I have always thought marketing takes care of itself when the product you market is impressive. Substitute marketing for an impressive product and in time it catches up and blindsides the company.

    Always was concerned over Angela Ahrends hiring and now stopping design work on airports. Very short sighted.
  10. Shanghaichica macrumors G3


    Apr 8, 2013
    I think the market has changed. People are holding onto their phones for longer and technology has reached a plateau at the moment.

    Also the market has changed a lot over the years. There are more options at the high, mid and low cost end than there were 5- 6 years ago. Apple are now operating in a crowded market. Additionally, the mid range android market has grown. People don't need to spend £800 on a mobile phone to get decent specs. They can spend £300-£400 and get a very solid phone.

    Apple are still leading the industry in terms of sales.
  11. ssong, Dec 1, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 1, 2016

    ssong macrumors 6502a


    May 3, 2015
    London, UK
    To be fair though, isn't her role limited to the Retail experience? I'm more annoyed at the seeming influx of hipster culture from the beats acquisition -_-;; The only thing I'd pin Ahrendts for is the god-awful post-launch experience of every single major Apple product since her hire.

    1. Customers all forwarded to the online store
    2. Greatly limited initial stock that can't meet initial demand for months after the launch (iPhone 7 Plus much?)
    3. Some ****ed up way of organising stock so that people who walk into a store weeks after launch can just pick one up if lucky whereas the person who pre-ordered an hour after the links went up still has to wait, etc.
  12. MacBH928 macrumors 68030


    May 17, 2008
    One thing is for sure...
    Signs are not good for the future...Apple not go bankrupt but customers will just lose their beloved computer company and grade A computing experience. Maybe it will turn into 1998 Microsoft.
  13. alFR, Dec 1, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 1, 2016

    alFR macrumors 68020

    Aug 10, 2006
    Typical sequence of events (repeated regularly since the first iPod):

    1. Apple releases new product
    2. Forums / internet in general erupt in rage
    3. "Apple is doomed" clickbait headlines proliferate
    4. Apple sells metric ****-ton of products, makes more money than God
    5. Go back to step 1
  14. Newtons Apple Suspended

    Newtons Apple

    Mar 12, 2014
    Jacksonville, Florida
    My Apple Stock indicates that Apple is doing just fine.

    I am for the first time considering other laptops rather than just Apple laptops for my company. I am getting rather miffed by the lake of ports for the sake of thin. I would not care if the new MBPro 15 was TWICE as thick if they would put the ports back. I know it is not going to happen and that is why I bought one of the last MBPro 13" non-retina . . .it even has a CD drive inside! For doing my Office and Quickbooks the non-retina screen is perfect!
  15. yegon, Dec 1, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016

    yegon macrumors 68030

    Oct 20, 2007
    Certainly not doomed, and they will continue to make eye popping, immense profits for years and years.

    However, I do fear they're making very early steps on the path trod by Microsoft under Ballmer. Replacing a visionary with a bean counter, the comparisons are inevitable, regardless of ones opinion of Gates vs Jobs.

    Shareholders have nothing to worry about in the medium term of course, but I do fear that as their product line becomes ever more narrow and purely consumer focussed the wider Apple experience is slowly being eroded and undermined.

    No longer is a product upgrade an improvement in all regards, instead net gains with a few caveats. Which is depressing, upgrades should be full, unreserved improvements on everything that has gone before, and so many recent Apple releases fall very short of that. Some "downgrades" can be somewhat justified for the sake of the long term, but the penny pinching decisions are harder to excuse on premium priced products.
  16. Shirasaki macrumors 604


    May 16, 2015
    But of course this sequence won't last forever without cost.
  17. cynics, Dec 1, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016

    cynics macrumors G4

    Jan 8, 2012
    Computing Forever (Dave) is a hater, his views on everything have become very dark. He's mostly known now for his videos on politics, social justice, regressive liberals etc etc anymore.

    It's like watching Ted Kaczynski do tech reviews.'s that bad. If he doesn't have a use for a feature then it must be a useless gimmick right?

    I unsubscribed from his channel a while back due to his ever increasing dark nature and closed mindedness. Later I see a video he made talking about how he's losing subscribers because YouTube is secretly doing this because of their far left (political) views!! I nearly fell out of my chair!

    Anyway I suggest taking his OPINION with a grain of salt and forming your own OPINION. Surely no one here needs help forming their own opinions right? Lol
  18. Dwalls90 macrumors 601


    Feb 5, 2009
    You forget forum goers are a small sliver of actual Apple customers. This isn't to say their concerns aren't valid, unlikely representative of Apple's consumer base.
  19. pat500000 macrumors G3


    Jun 3, 2015
    Apple failed mainly of quality...and the secondary is lack of hardwares.
  20. Zirel Suspended


    Jul 24, 2015
    This, he is a delusional hater.

    It's a biased and non-factual video.

    He says MS is out there to take Apple place, not a chance! Doesn't matter how much he tries, every single one of his readers are the people that buy expensive gaming desktops and then are unhappy because it's not a cool MacBook they can take to Starbucks like other people.
  21. bopajuice Suspended


    Mar 22, 2016
    Dark side of the moon
    Ha! Pretty silly reason. Did you know you can increase font size and icons for your "Fat fingers"?
    --- Post Merged, Dec 1, 2016 ---
    "IBD'S TAKE: Apple stock has been below its 50-day moving average, a negative sign, since Nov. 1. More attractive stocks for investors to consider can be found on the IBD 50 list of top growth companies."
    --- Post Merged, Dec 1, 2016 ---
    Non Factual? That's just delusional. He made several valid points, albeit many opinions, but still very convincing.
  22. Zirel Suspended


    Jul 24, 2015
    No, he isn't.

    Some people want to listen to someone to say that, he like many on YouTube does that, but it's an echo chamber and nothing more than that.

    Apple just didn't grow and surpass Microsoft to get the place they are now with just echo chambers.

    Apple's "bad year" is just more than Google and Microsoft combined, JUST GET REAL, and the actual products are very good, top quality, while the competition just keeps pushing low grade crap and spending a ton buying the press and youtubers (not him, but many others).
  23. theluggage macrumors 68040

    Jul 29, 2011
    No, but that sort of success is how "echo chambers" get started...
    - the critics were wrong in the past, so they must be wrong now!
    - if thin and light is good, thinner and lighter must be better!
    - 3 weeks after the launch and the share price is still OK so everything is fine!
    - today's success is entirely down to our decisions today and owes nothing to yesterday's decisions.
    - nor does today's success have anything to do with our competitors' unforced errors.

    Remember, Microsoft had a series of foul-ups and "courageous decisions" that probably made a huge contribution to the rise of Mac OS, iOS, Android and Chromebook... Windows Vista, the Office ribbon, Windows 8, epic failure to break into the phone/tablet market, The UI Formerly Know as Metro, the Windows 10 forced upgrade fiasco, last man to jump on the "services" bandwagon, Linux eating their lunch in the server market... Any one of those could have bankrupted a company without Microsoft's legacy near-monopoly. Instead, they've lived and learned - and their competitors had better look and learn too, not point at MS's past mistakes and say "Ha ha!"

    Also, a large part of the Mac's recent success is that Apple were already exclusively positioned in the "premium laptop" market which continued to grow after the "cheap commodity PC/laptop" market imploded a few years ago. That wasn't Cook's genius, nor Jobs' vision, it was just serendipity - high-end laptops have been Apple's bread and butter since the days of the reviled Sculley*, they were still turning out well-respected executive laptops at their nadir in the late 90s when their desktop line was a shambles. You'll notice now that Dell, Microsoft et. al. are now gunning for that market.

    * Its worth remembering what Apple did achieve in the wilderness years without Jobs: the first PowerBook more-or-less defined the modern laptop, the Mac LC made Macs far more affordable, the Newton was a heroic, ahead-of-its-time failure (cruelly killed by a Doonesbury cartoon) and Apple had one of the first consumer digital cameras on the market. Possibly most significantly, Apple worked with Acorn in the early 90s to improve the then-obscure ARM processor without which... well, lets just say that the iPhone and its competitors would have turned out rather different. So, if Tim Cook wants to make a mark on the future of technology (rather than just notch up a few quarters of record turnover) task #1 is to be as good as Sculley... matching Jobs can wait.
  24. Zirel Suspended


    Jul 24, 2015
    The echo chambers of Microsoft are in full force...

    Full of teens that only think of gaming, and their mental image of "work" is youtubers who never did actual work in their life, doing video editing, and idiot journalists that run on bribes

    Those teens want Xboxes and gaming PC's, not $3000 desktops.

    SurfaceBook and SurfaceStudio are HALO PRODUCTS. The products Microsoft uses to get people interested in the brand, then to buy (hopefully) SurfacePro's, except that for most people, a $300 atom-based device is enough. If not $100 (yes).

    There's a reason Microsoft stopped releasing Surface sales numbers.

    Learned what?

    It's too late for Microsoft, they gotta go.

    Seriously, I don't know what keeps them on. They are a complete failure, you forgot that they lost to Amazon in the cloud business. They won't be able to compete with Google and IBM for the second place.

    No, it was Job's/Cook's vision and dedication and values.

    Sony tried the same, they lost.

    They are gunning, but I don't see people buying those machines, they are awfully specced and featured for geeks, and are too big.

    For the average costumer, for example, the DELL XPS 13 might look good, but if you are a geek, you'll notice the 15W CPU, the non DCI-3P screen, the outdated ports, the thicker profile, the plastic feel, etc. Won't win unless you hate Apple, which will go away on your second purchase.
  25. theluggage macrumors 68040

    Jul 29, 2011
    A huge presence in the corporate desktop PC/server/email business, a near-monopoly on wp/spreadsheet software (no, boys and girls, LibreOffice won't load/save non-trivial Office docs with any fidelity), some pretty decent corporate IT development software (Visual Studio/C#, SQL Server etc.) and, of course, they get a slice from every single Windows PC sold. They can afford to produce "halo products" like the Surface Studio - and even if people buy Dell/Lenovo/Asus/whatever instead they still get something.

    They're not going away in a hurry. Apple will be toast (or, at least, an asset-stripped MS or Google subsidiary) the morning the millennials wake up and decide that iPhones are so last week.

    What, you mean like the 15W processor in the 13" non-touchbar MBP that costs $200 more, which comes down partly to whether the 6th gen Iris Pro graphics in the Mac is better than the 7th gen Intel HD graphics in the Dell but mainly to how much thermal throttling each system relies on. As for "outdated ports" - sorry, but if you think USB-A, SD and charge ports are "outdated" then you have truly drunk too deeply of the Cupertino Kool-aid... In any case, the XPS13 does have a USB-C/TB3 port, and since it also has USBA, SD and charger ports, you don't have to waste your super-high-speed port by plugging a charger, mouse or USB2-speed thumb drive into it.

    Anyway, Dell seem to update their processor selection almost monthly - a few months ago they had 28W Skylake options and, doubtless, other Kaby Lake options will crop up as and when the chips are available. OK, we should never forget Intel's contribution to this mess with their meaningless i5/i7 branding combined with starting the hype for Kaby Lake before they'd finished releasing all the Skylake variants.

    Screen? Well, higher resolution on the $1300 Dell plays (possibly?) wider gamut on the $1500 MacBook Pro - or, if you're going to fork out for a nice 4k external, you can save your pennies and get the sub-$1000 Dell with the 1080p screen.

    ...and if the XPS13 doesn't float your boat there's a ton of permutations from Dell, Lenovo, HP, Asus... Apple's simple product range can be a good thing but is very, very dependent on them choosing exactly the right choices - their current policy seems to be "everybody wants thinner & lighter and if you want 'choice' we'll keep some of the old models around for a while".

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