Apple's Secret War To Keep You From...

Discussion in 'Apple, Inc and Tech Industry' started by maxsix, Jun 13, 2016.

  1. maxsix Suspended

    maxsix

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    #1
  2. ardchoille50 macrumors 68020

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    I have owned 5 iPhones, 3 iPads, 2 iPods, a Mac mini, 2 Apple TV's, a Magic Mouse and a Magic Trackpad since 2012 and have never had any problems with any of them. So, I guess I could say that Apple products wouldn't need to be repaired if people took better care of them to begin with.

    That Huff Post article seems to have been posted for the purpose of planting seeds of doubt and/or stirring the conspiracy theory folks.
     
  3. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    What about that issue where 3rd party screen replacements - Apple disabled touch-id on an update if the screen was replaced with a non-apple screen. They stepped back from that and re-adjusted their position after a lot of bad press.


    I'd say that "war" is not limited to iPhones, but also all of their products
    Tamper evident screws on MacBook

    Clearly with apple gluing their computers more and more, and now using screws that are tamper evident, they're not wanting people to open them up.
     
  4. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    I think this goes inline with Apple's obsession to control the user experience. With devices being so integrated nowadays, replacing parts is not something that anyone can do and more so you can't just pick any part and put it in. Allowing third party repairs would create a market (or merely boost the existing market) for cheaper low quality replacement parts that are not necessarily fully qualified and validated for Apple's devices. It's evident that third party repair shops would all try to compete on price because that's what you check first, and that would give the shops an initiative to source parts that are as cheap as possible. Such parts could decrease user satisfaction and could even be dangerous like the cheap replacement batteries for Android phones.

    Secondly, it's a huge business for Apple. All the replacement parts carry crazy margins and as Apple must act in their shareholders interest, it wouldn't be beneficial to allow third party repairs that would take business away from Apple's high margin repair and AppleCare businesses.

    You could of course argue that from the environmental angle this is wrong, but I think Apple is doing what is in their best interest with Liam and recycling/reusing as many parts as possible.
     
  5. I7guy macrumors G5

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    Of course it's easy to say it's(repairs) a money maker, but there's a huge downstream risk to Apple with future apple customers receiving poorly repaired devices that fail due to shoddy work or parts. The risk is to apples reputation.
     
  6. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    So you're saying that if I take my computer to john smiths computer repair store down the road, and it suddenly fails after the repair, I'm going to blame apple for poor quality?

    That doesn't seem to make sense.

    The move by apple is simple. Get people to consider idevices and computers to be consumable products that are replaced, not repaired. Apple stands to make a lot more money by getting people to buy new products then then allowing others to fix (or upgrade) it.
     
  7. I7guy macrumors G5

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    Let's use an iPhone as an example; you get the screen replaced by a third party who also damages the internals. Sell the phone and the phone fails with the new owner. Multiply by millions of iPhones across the globe over time...
    - the inter webs are abuzz with iPhone failures
    - Apple has to fix and charge for shoddy workmanship probably angering the new consumer

    It's really the first point that I can see damaging apples reputation.
     
  8. Pakaku macrumors 68000

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    It's not a war on repairs, it's a never-ending quest to make arbitrarily-thinner phones, which comes with the (positive for Apple) side-effect of becoming more and more difficult to repair.
     
  9. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    Or apple states that it was repaired defectively not using apple parts. We see this now, and apple will not honor a warranty that way.

    the person buying the phone then has to go back to the person who sold them and dispute the sale because they were not forthright.
     
  10. I7guy macrumors G5

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    I see what your saying but either way it's a tug of war and the customer loses on way or another. By that I mean time, money and/or loss of function of device.
     
  11. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    The problem is if Apple supports third party repairs by making the guides and other material free for all, everyone can basically claim that they are an authorised repair shop.

    What if John Smith's repair shop says they followed Apple's guidelines and that the new failure is unrelated to the earlier one. You take it to Apple and Apple says the failure was due to poor repair work, but John Smith insists that the repair was done properly. What can you do in such scenario? Apple will deny fixing it because it was John Smith's fault and John Smith says it wasn't their fault, and Apple can't pressure John Smith since it has no relation to Apple.
     
  12. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    What most companies tend to do, is have an authorized repair center, if you choose to go outside of that accepted process, you're SOL.

    What apple is doing is sealing the computer and preventing any repairs, and imo, there's only one reason. To sell more idevices and computers.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 15, 2016 ---
    Yes, the one losing out is the customer, and while its more expedient for apple to replace a phone. I'd say given the loss of subsidies, its harder to justify spending so much money on a replacement. Granted apple offers an expensive phone replacement program, so you don't have to spend 700+ to get your phone replaced.
     
  13. maxsix thread starter Suspended

    maxsix

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    Mercedes, BMW and others don't have a problem with others repairing their automobiles. It creates a wonderful secondary market that allows many who can't afford a brand new model to own one of their cars. It also provides jobs and business opportunities for repair shops and more.
     
  14. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    The auto industry (given the price of the vehicles) understand that cars are made to last a long time, so they worked within those parameters to ensure they make decisions that offer the biggest bang for the bottom line.

    Apple, has moved in the opposite direction, making computers more of a commodity that is to be thrown away rather then repaired. It seems more similar to the TV industry where years ago, there was a whole cottage industry where you could repair a TV, but today its a throw away product.
     
  15. I7guy macrumors G5

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    Actually they do if the secondary repair shop installs a non-oem part that causes an issue whereby you bring the car in for a warranty repair. Car dealers are under no obligations to repair a vehicle in that scenario, similar to Apple.

    Also similar to Apple out of warranty cars can be repaired anywhere. If there is an issue the item will be replaced/repaired for a price.
     
  16. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    Isn't that what Apple is basically doing? If you go to Apple or an authorised repair shop, you're good, but if you choose to go outside those you're on your own. It's pretty much an industry-wide practice.

    Sealed devices are mostly due to Apple's pursue to make devices thinner. Once you go thinner it's obvious that more and more parts become integrated, making repairs more difficult.
     
  17. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    Yeah, to a point

    I'd say not just for thinner, just take the Mac Mini and how hard they've made opening that up. For years you needed a putty knife. I've not followed the Mac Mini, so don't I don't know if its sealed, but they had opened it up for a while.

    I do think its in Apple's best interest to move consumers along with the idea that computers and phones are a consumable product and when it stops working, to replace it, instead of fixing it. Apple will make more money on people buying a new product then repairing the existing one.
     
  18. Zirel Suspended

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    But makes sense to lots of people.
     
  19. Tech198, Jun 18, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2016

    Tech198 macrumors G5

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    well, that's true, but the trade-off is worth it knowing u have iFixIt. I reckon it's a balance..

    You want thinner Mac's or do u want to repair them. The cost involved of doing it yourself, why have a extended warranty like Apple Care ? it will be too expensive if everyone repaired their Mac's, and users would try and source cheap parts and complain their Macs are slow. because they used after-market hardware. (eg... logic boards for example)
     
  20. grahamperrin macrumors 601

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    I like the summary closing paragraphs:

    Generally, it's an interesting article. Thanks. Good to find things such as MONITOUR.
     
  21. Rogifan macrumors P6

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  22. BeefCake 15 macrumors 65816

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    The problem is unfortunately with these regulations is they can end up inhibiting innovation for all OEM not just Apple...This one is easier to vote on with the consumer dollar to push them to make their products repair friendly
     
  23. grahamperrin macrumors 601

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    Open Hardware and Software Laptop - Slashdot led me to last week's Episode 2: Shenzhen and the Maker Movement « bunnie's blog:

    – it begins with a senior vice president from Intel speaking about open source and innovation.
     
  24. pat500000 macrumors G3

    pat500000

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    Is this really Tim's idea of wanting to seal your life away by gluing your devices and to pressure customers to either "buy another one or get lost?"

    He's a man of profit. This Apple company reminds me of Adam and Eve story. This devil persuading eve to eat that Apple and deceive her and Adam to shame.
     
  25. ApfelKuchen macrumors 68030

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    Though nobody is likely to believe me, the point is to make products so solidly that don't need to be repaired. Apple doesn't make a fortune on repairs, it makes a fortune by avoiding repairs. Within the warranty period, hardware failures are Apple's cost, not the customer's. It's not about screwing the person who breaks his stuff, it's about a happy experience for those who don't.

    Do people want their devices to be less susceptible to water damage? That means sealed assemblies, and properly re-sealing them after repair. Screws can come loose, glue does not. Connectors that can withstand repeated hand insertion/removal cycles by the average consumer are bulkier and more expensive than those that are intended to be handled once or twice by trained personnel or machines. And tamper-resistant screws not only tell a repair shop that some gorilla worked on the thing, they send the same warning to potential buyers of used gear.

    I wouldn't buy a mechanical watch that had screwdriver pry marks where the back meets the case, and I certainly wouldn't buy a computer or iPhone that had equivalent damage. It's very likely there will be more damage inside. Anyone who won't spend $10-$20 on the right tool is someone who has no business making a repair in the first place - the first priority is to do the repair right, not do it cheap.
     

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