Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Samsung supposedly sells twice the number of phones as Apple does, but Apple generates twice the profit of Samsung. Does that mean the majority of phones they sold were cheaper smartphones or feature phones? Or is there something else eating into Samsung's profits?
 
Samsung supposedly sells twice the number of phones as Apple does, but Apple generates twice the profit of Samsung. Does that mean the majority of phones they sold were cheaper smartphones or feature phones? Or is there something else eating into Samsung's profits?

Probably a bit of both. Samsung sold nearly 100 million smartphones last year alone but all Galaxy S, S2 and Notes combined between 2010 and early 2012 came out to be only about 60 millions. It's a very clever marketing strategy on Samsung's part to emphasize Galaxy S while hiding the actual product mix.

On the other hand, Samsung Electronics' other businesses aren't doing all that great. Samsung Electronics', like Apple, is a company that relies very heavily on the sales of mobile phones for profits.


Unless Apple step up and make a few different model iPhones to cater for peoples screen size preferences the likes of Samsung will continue to grow in market share, the proof is the fact i am a HUGE Apple fan but even i have switched to a HTC One XL Android phone simply for the bigger screen. Wake up Apple!!!

However HTC is doing rather poorly despite offering a number of large screen phones, as with LG who also offers phones with very large screens. The market isn't really that simple.
 
Absurd. What was in Apple's future right before their clamshell ibook with an Airport card in it showed up? Before the iPod showed up? Before the iPhone showed up? Before the MacBook Air showed up? Before the iPad showed up? WE DIDN'T HAVE A CLUE.

The future is in the future for you and for me. However, for some of the Apple designers, that same future started three years ago or six months ago. You and I don't know what they're working on, but it probably has nothing to do with an iPhone.

Is someone still tweaking the next idea for an iPhone? Almost certainly. More ideas are also forthcoming for next iterations of the iPad, and all the other stuff we know about, plus a lot of stuff we've never imagined that we might enjoy, or need. Meanwhile as globalization continues, more people begin to enter the consumer class and drive demand for all manner of products, including mobile computing gear. I daresay there's room for multiple brands of all that stuff. It doesn't hurt Apple to have some competition, either.

The iPhones are now in the stage that's called "iterations of released product." So are shuffles and nanos and anything else they haven't decided to kill off yet. Doesn't mean some insanely great iPhones can't still emerge. Definitely doesn't mean Apple will croak if it decides to whack the iPhone some time. I was upset when they whacked the Powerbook 170 but I got over it, and so did Apple!

Be honest: in 1999, did you spend a whole lot of time wondering how great Apple's 2010 iPad rollout would be? Yeah, me neither. I was sitting in front of a tangerine clamshell, all wound up about the possibilities presented by that Airport card.

Whatever you think of each iteration of a released product, it is different and can fill a different niche market with a great brand. Will each one of them boost Apple's profits like a rocket taking off for Mars? Nope. Does each one sell? Yep. And each one helps keep that brand right out there, baby: This is Apple. This just works. This is elegant. This is functional. Apple services what it sells. Apple throws in stuff you didn't expect (Genius playlisting that gets better the more you use it, for example).

I will never, never forget showing a five year old kid a couple of functions of the original MacPaint program on a 512k Mac, and then walking out to the kitchen for a few minutes to see to the prep for a meal later. When I came back, the kid had discovered functions I didn't even know the program offered. Right there I realized that Apple had turned personal computing on its head by making the software interface so intuitive. A five year old teaching an adult computing professional how a graphics program worked. The whole paradigm of personal computing was changing faster than anyone could grasp, but that kid got it, and defined it, all in one.

Today I still celebrate that moment from back in the mid-80s. I was looking at a change in how the future would be shaped. People whose imaginations had not yet been stomped on would be creating the new stuff. I felt like I had jumped on a rocketship that was just taking off, and that I would mostly be a passenger because I was already "a grownup." But I was sure willing to go along for the ride, and it has been amazing to take that ride with Apple products all this time.

And today I say that no sane person bets against Apple being able to come up with another great idea, or against their bringing another elegant and highly functional implementation to market. Apple designers don't have a track record of having hit just one ball out of the park. Somehow they have managed to stay hungry, and to crave creating products that properly marry form to function, and they've done it again and again. That hunger, and the discipline to pursue a best implementation, are what has made them so successful.

What is this a paid advertisement lol. Just kidding, I like Apple but come on already.
 
Wow. Samsung did what Microsoft has done to squash Apple in the desktop OS space.

For the record... the Mac NEVER had a majority of market share in the desktop space. So it's not like Apple fell from grace in that area.

But being #2 in smartphones isn't so bad.

You realize there is a #2 in EVERY industry... right? And a #3, #4, #5, #6, etc.

If rankings are your thing... then yes... #1 is "better"

But I wouldn't scoff at being #2 in such a crowded market. Apple is in no danger of going bankrupt because of their ranking.

And let's be clear... as good as Samsung appears on these charts... they still only have 1/3 of the smartphone market... and only 1/4 of the total phone market. Samsung isn't ruling either market just yet.

Is Samsung higher on these charts than Apple? Absolutely.

But like I said... there's nothing wrong with being #2

I'd take #2 in a heartbeat :)
 
It's not just one or two things. It's a combination of everything that's been brought up:

  • Samsung has a larger choice of phone models to fill more niches. (Heck, they sold over 5 million Notes. A little of this, a little of that... pretty soon you're talking big numbers in total.)
  • Samsung has lower priced no-contract phones. (The ~$125 Galaxy Mini is often 50% of smartphone sales in economically hit countries.)
  • Smartphone users get more sophisticated over time and want more control / features / different UI.
  • Many smartphone users like larger screens than Apple offers.
  • Apple upgraders are waiting for the single yearly new model.
  • The iPhone's design hasn't been changed in a couple of years.
  • A few carriers have dropped the iPhone due to its extra large subsidy.
  • Samsung benefits a bit from free publicity via so many Apple lawsuits.

Pretty good summary and I agree on a lot of points you made.

I am in HK and over the last couple of months one could see that the popularity of Samsung models are on the rise here. Personally, I bought the Galaxy Note last year because I fancied the big screen (I am a relatively tall person with large hands and fingers) and I thought, the phone won't be very popular among Asians. Boy, I was wrong. Nowadays you can always see a few people around in the bus or subway carrying a Note or the new SGIII watching movies on the go, readings news, writing emails. Samsung phones are immensely popular here.

I dare to say that in big metropolitan areas, where people have to commute on public transports, a phone with a big screen is the weapon of choice. Not many people like to carry two devices (phone and a tablet) in a crowded subway, train or bus.

And also, many people don't want to spend or simply can't afford to spend money on two devices. So they buy a phone with a big screen which gives them a good compromise.

I am a bit pit puzzled that Apple is not fighting in that particular market segment.
 
Last edited:
I don't know, Apple always innovate with or without the heat.

Seeing this numbers i can only figure Apple is selling a lot of units!

Who is saying iOS is outdated doesn't have a clue imho. iOS is just perfect as mobile OS, simple, fast, complete and with a lot of quality software.

Im not saying they dont innovate they just need competition to push the industry further. Mail for example, has not changed since ios 1 and sparrow came in and implemented some new features. Don't get me wrong I love Ios and it's better than anything I have used but Ios is getting a little stale and I wish they would implement some interesting animations to make it more modern.
 
I do think that Samsung's recent surge was because of the ENORMOUS success of the Galaxy SIII model, which is just about the cutting edge of cellphone technology. In many ways, the Galaxy SIII is way ahead of the current iPhone 4S in terms of features.

But just wait until the next-generation iPhone arrives around late September 2012. Once that is released, Apple will quickly regain its lead over Samsung.
 
You're kidding me right? :eek:

nope, walk in a store and look at them together. Pick up the HTC and the iPhone. The iPhone is twice and heavy and much smaller. Screen is dinky and to be honest, the retina is no better to the eye than the HTC.

Don't get me wrong, I won't use Android. It sucks. But I can picture that changing if Apple doesn't get off their rear end and give us something besides a grown up taller iPhone 4 and call it an iPhone 5. Then call a press presentation and act like its the second coming of phones.

The blowhard presentations are not going to keep cutting it. They need to deliver something because their competitors obviously are.
 
I think what really hurt Apple is their push for a Fall launch. At this point no one in the market for a new smartphone wants to get a design that is over 2 years old when the Android oems are pumping out new phones left, and right. If the next iPhone is really Steve Jobs inspired, I expect a hit.
 
Gotta love MacRumors' forums (among countless others.) When I have some time to kill, it's always hilarious how many people on here chime in completely off-topic to cheer/bash these companies. There is no exclusivity in these products and they have no real cachet, if that is what you're looking for. They are cheap electronics sold by the hundreds of millions that are outdated extremely soon, so I'm always at a bit of a loss when I see people rooting for one and the demise of another. I mean, it's not even possible to be a badge snob with these devices -- though some try -- because even minimum wage workers have iPhone and Galaxy S III's.

Don't you people just like good products, wide selections, and various price points? Would you hate it if you could by a PC that just used an exact copy of the Macbook Air design? Would you hate it if you could get iOS on a Galaxy SIII? Would you hate it if you could get the best of both worlds in countless form factors? Isn't that the goal for consumers?

If anything, you should be thrilled to see competition and 'stealing.' You benefit from it directly.

Personally, I wish I could buy a Macbook Air with a 1080P screen running Windows 8. I would also like it if I could buy a Galaxy SIII with the body of the supposed iPhone5 and with stock Android and the update schedule of iOS and the latest Sony camera sensors. I also would love it if I could get Android/iOS on a Lumia 900 body.

Android/Apple forums are filled with quite possibly the worst consumers I've ever seen. You guys do the rest of us a disservice. You make us spend more and get less.

Alas, there is one saving grace, and that is that fanboys fortunately don't contribute to even a fraction of the bottom line and neither company really gives a **** about its power users. Your enthusiasm and allegiance is wasted because they sell more iPhone to moms and teenage girls than they do to you guys.
 
Last edited:
LOL! Like the majority of it is big screen. My friend has Samsung phone and its screen is tiny. One even has Galaxy brand but really cheap. I'm beginning to think fandroids are delusional.

Yeah, that must be the Galaxy Ace or Galaxy Y.

However the top-selling smartphone right now is the Galaxy S3 with a 4.8 inch screen. I think that's the first time any smartphone model outsells the most recent iPhone (4S in that case).
 
Good to see Apple getting some heat. They need this in order to keep innovating.

Pedantic comment this is.

Where was the heat whe apple came out with

-iPhone
-iPad
-macBook Air
-retina display macs
-apple tv

People, apple innovates because it is in its DNA. Others copy, follow, and then sue apple when they're cought redhanded copying apple.
 
Such a useful post. We know Apple still is rooting and paying this Korean maker to provide integral parts to their iOS devices. This Korean maker is fast.

You forgot they make the best HDTV's too. Surpassing Apple's former idol, Sony, in that department years ago.

True, but I don't know if they make the best HDTVs (hard to compare). They certainly look amazing, but I really like Vizio too. Doesn't Samsung make all of those retina displays for Apple?
 
Samsung and Google are essentially the Walmart of the technology world.

They rush to get in on a market by over saturating it with cheap, less than stellar phones which they sell at a loss just to over-inflate their numbers much like Walmart forced their way into small markets by forcing existing businesses out by selling cheap merchandise.

The tech world will be much better once they're gone.



Perhaps in your dreams Android is better than iOS but in the real world it's the opposite. Android is ugly and has no sense of direction - it feels like a two year old just knocked over a bucket of paint and Google called it a day.

The S3 is a better phone than iPhone. And it's pretty darn sexy.

Also, have you used Android lately?? In the past, it was pretty crappy. These days, it's surpassed iOS.
 
Android/Apple forums are filled with quite possibly the worst consumers I've ever seen. You guys do the rest of us a disservice. You make us spend more and get less.

Alas, there is one saving grace, and that is that fanboys fortunately don't contribute to even a fraction of the bottom line and neither company really gives a **** about its power users. Your enthusiasm and allegiance is wasted because they sell more iPhone to moms and teenage girls than they do to you guys.

There are a lot of people here who are shareholders, not consumers. And yes, none of these things are geared towards power users. Still, a lot of the power features that iOS and others are missing are really just useless nerd settings. I don't understand why such a big deal is made about a cellphone. Maybe it's just because I spend so little time on my iPhone per day, and I didn't even really want an iPhone, which is the best smartphone for most people.
 
It's funny. Because when I have customers who come in with the zombie eyes and say "I want the iPhone", all I have to do now is show them the Samsung Galaxy S3 and they are sold.

4G, bigger screen, elegant design, beautiful vibrant colors on the screen are just a few of the words the customers say among others as I show them.

The days of iPhone ruling the roost are over. If the mock ups of the next iPhone are anywhere near what will eventually come out, there will be major bleeding from Apple.

Apple just doesn't have that WOW factor anymore. There's only so many times you can say the words MAGICAL, INNOVATIVE, and the like before people learn and open their eyes.
 
I do think that Samsung's recent surge was because of the ENORMOUS success of the Galaxy SIII model, which is just about the cutting edge of cellphone technology. In many ways, the Galaxy SIII is way ahead of the current iPhone 4S in terms of features.

But just wait until the next-generation iPhone arrives around late September 2012. Once that is released, Apple will quickly regain its lead over Samsung.

I think it's important to note that for once, Android phones are better than iPhone. And Apple doesn't seem to notice or care. Actually, never-mind, they're trying to legally block the sales of these phones. :rolleyes:

I kind of hope the second part of your statement is true. But Apple is playing catch-up in both hardware & software arenas. I'm not sure if the new iPhone will be able to fix that problem. iOS 6 definitely doesn't! Siri can talk about sports? :confused:

Yay.
 
Nice...cant wait till its small club again to own apple again. Tired of seeing every douchebag have an iphone, mac, and apple sticker on his car. It will once again be nice.
 
Samsung supposedly sells twice the number of phones as Apple does, but Apple generates twice the profit of Samsung. Does that mean the majority of phones they sold were cheaper smartphones or feature phones? Or is there something else eating into Samsung's profits?

Are you talking about ONLY for the iPhone?

----------

Nice...cant wait till its small club again to own apple again. Tired of seeing every ****bag have an iphone, mac, and apple sticker on his car. It will once again be nice.

Are you one of those people who just wants something because it's not mainstream? I'd like most people to use Apple products because I use them, and if there are more people using them, they will have the most support. I remember when hardly anything was made for Mac, and now most companies keep Mac users in sight. Get a Nokia if you want to be hip.

----------

I think it's important to note that for once, Android phones are better than iPhone. And Apple doesn't seem to notice or care. Actually, never-mind, they're trying to legally block the sales of these phones. :rolleyes:

I kind of hope the second part of your statement is true. But Apple is playing catch-up in both hardware & software arenas. I'm not sure if the new iPhone will be able to fix that problem. iOS 6 definitely doesn't! Siri can talk about sports? :confused:

Yay.

"Better"? They've always been "better", just not better. More features, stronger hardware, more cr@p.

----------

I'm starting to worry that Faildroid may win, Apple NEEDS free iPhones and they need prepaid iPhones, they need them everywhere if they want to win, and honestly, without the iPhone, Idk what's in Apple's future.

It reminds me of Mac vs Windows. It seems that Apple has a bit of honor and avoids gimmicky selling techniques, where others do a good job of capturing people who just buy the first thing they see advertised. The celebrity ads are pretty dumb, though, and Siri is a gimmick that Apple didn't even make.

The most shameless company I see at the moment is HP with their "authentic Beats" PCs. Honestly, is a "Beats" audio out port better than a regular one? Did Dr. Dre even design it? I actually looked this up, and the speakers on Beats laptops are Altec Lansing, and the towers just have the logo on a regular audio output. OH wait, it's amplified! Just like everything else! No wonder HP makes the worst computers.
 
As for the topic of this thread, I think it's very obvious why there is a slide in Apple's market share.

Samsung, and all the other companies, have phones in more price ranges. The smartphone market continues to grow, but as usual, the wealthy countries have been first to adopt it and already have. As technology has improved, manufacturers have been able to move from cheap feature phones to cheap smartphones. This then causes a spike in smartphone growth at the lower end where most cheap phones are sold, and area where Apple doesn't sell new products.

This of course doesn't add much to Samsung and company's bottom line because the margins aren't nearly as high. Such is the case with Nokia who sells insane amounts of phones, but most of which are cheap and not very profitable.

Apple's market share will continue to decline as a percentage, but will surely grow in terms of sheer users. Because it has a predictable upgrade cycle and only one product, that means it also goes through waves of sales. Sales leading up the new phone slow, then accelerate once it's available.

As for Samsung not providing their volume, I really don't think that matters. They reported $5.9B in income, and that certain wasn't just due to an increase in appliance sales while Europe is in deep recession. They sell a lot of phones, end of story. They just aren't as high of margin as Apple. And believe it or not, that is a good thing for consumers. It means they aren't charging you as much of a premium.

As for shipped vs. sold, you are crazy. To say that Samsung has shipped by not sold many is to say that the telcoms are idiots and don't know what they are doing. ATT certainly isn't buying millions of Galaxy SIII's if they aren't going to sell them.
 
What is this a paid advertisement lol. Just kidding, I like Apple but come on already.

LOL! Hardly any kind of ad, just a fond reminiscence. I'm so ticked off at Apple right now I can hardly type. My mid-2010 Mac Book Pro has just flown to Memphis for its fourth repair job, I guess we're doing one organ transplant at a time with my copy of that model. And my 2GB 2nd gen nanos don't mount in iTunes 10.6.3 under Lion 10.7.4 on a mid-2011 Mac Book Air. Just the 2GB ones. The 4GB ones work. The 1GB 1st gen refurb nanos also work. Go figure.

But for that other MacRumors member to get all crazed over the possibility that iPhone might not be the main tent pole of Apple's future? Silly to worry about that. The world did not see the Airport card in the clamshell coming, or the iPod, or the iPhone, or the iPad. So why worry about what's the next great thing? Let Apple worry. Which I'm sure someone at Apple gets paid very well to do!

Still, there is the whole matter of whether Apple is trying to overlay OS by iOS, one release at a time. Some say don't worry. That I do actually worry about. You can't relegate most of the population to just pushing brightly colored buttons and expect the trajectory of personal computing not to start looking like the downswing of a parabolic arc.

Is that where iOS as OS is taking us on our laptops and desktops? I ain't goin' there with Apple if that is where they are going.

The last thing the planet needs is some elite group thinking it should control who gets to write code and who only gets to run sandboxed apps with cute little pushbuttons for start, stop and pause for a snack. People who think that limiting all end users to an iOS kind of experience can bring us a better future in computing have forgotten two things: 1) they themselves will get too old to write code for the rest of us, and 2) they did not get to where they are by being locked into an iOS environment while creating the amazing things that Mac software and hardware have brought us over the years.

Achievements come after trial and ERROR. Omit the possibility of error and all you get is stunted growth and boredom.

Anyway I'm glad you were kidding about my prior post being a paid ad for Apple. I do love Apple, but I loathe them too. I think it's normal to feel so ambivalent about them. It's because they strive so hard for perfection, and come so close so often. Then the slightest flaw seems larger than life, that's all.

Every time I take another white power wart out of the box and see the pale, pale grey print that describes the power of its circuitry, i could just KILL whoever at Apple designed that admittedly elegant grey on white gig. :eek: :eek: :eek: It's illegible unless you're a 20-something or younger. For the rest of us, they need to remember the old Madison Avenue saw: "Make it good. If you can't make it good, make it big. If you can't make it big, make it RED." So wtf, Apple: make the print on those power bricks red next time. ;)
 
There are a lot of people here who are shareholders, not consumers. And yes, none of these things are geared towards power users. Still, a lot of the power features that iOS and others are missing are really just useless nerd settings. I don't understand why such a big deal is made about a cellphone. Maybe it's just because I spend so little time on my iPhone per day, and I didn't even really want an iPhone, which is the best smartphone for most people.

Something tells me that the vast majority of shareholders on here spend far more as consumers than they own in AAPL shares. Still, you've had a hell of a ride and enjoyed probably about as good of return as you're going to get.

I too don't understand what the big deal is for a lot of people. I'm using an old Samsung flip phone for a while now. Battery lasts for like at least a week. Makes calls, gets text messages. Couldn't be happier hahaha.
 
Samsung and Google are essentially the Walmart of the technology world.

They rush to get in on a market by over saturating it with cheap, less than stellar phones which they sell at a loss just to over-inflate their numbers much like Walmart forced their way into small markets by forcing existing businesses out by selling cheap merchandise.

The tech world will be much better once they're gone.



Perhaps in your dreams Android is better than iOS but in the real world it's the opposite. Android is ugly and has no sense of direction - it feels like a two year old just knocked over a bucket of paint and Google called it a day.

Seriously?! The Samsung Galaxy S3 is better than the iPhone in every way. It's not cheap either. As is the HTC One. Funny how you say cheap when, if you took the Apple logo off the iPhone 4S it would be considered a cheap entry level smartphone because that's what it is.

I'm the real world more people are buying Android phones. Not the free ones either. For every 1 iPhone I sell, I sell 10 premium Android phones that the customers want because they know it's better.

Why?

They want 4G, they want a bigger screen, they want more control over their phone, they want better specs.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.