iMac Pro Apple's software QC slipping - iMac Pro

[Peter_M]

Hi,

It's unfortunate that my first post here should be a negative one, but here goes:

I've been a big Apple fan for nearly 20 years, but this last year has been frustrating, and I'm seriously considering returning to Windows.

I bought an iMac Pro 6 months ago, and the hardware is great. The GPU (Vega Pro 64) is surprisingly powerful, and there isn't a more aesthetically pleasing machine on the market IMO. However, software QC is slipping.

Here are some of my issues from the last 6 months - most are still unresolved:
-Bootcamp audio driver doesn't work properly (both internal speakers and headphone output) - only real option is using an external sound card.
-Latest version of Magic keyboard and mouse didn't work wirelessly in Bootcamp for several months.
-Very poor Bootcamp GPU driver, which was nearly useless for gaming (took Apple 5 months to fix - fortunately there is www.bootcampdrivers.com)
-Random reboots in macOS (during sleep), still a problem after 3-4 OS updates.
-Sound driver crashes many times a week (when watching YouTube videos in Safari), typically 1-2 times a day - both with internal speakers or external soundcard. Reboot is needed (programs using sound become unresponsive).
-iTunes aren't able to display non-square album art
-Machine boots up with near max monitor brightness, not able to remember previous setting
-Certain videos (on YouTube, Periscope etc.) have no audio in Safari when using external sound card, but no problems with other web browsers like Chrome, Firefox etc.
-Apple blocking access to the SMC in Bootcamp, e.g. software makers not able to update fan control software for iMac Pro Bootcamp
Etc...

Most of these issues are not fixed, even after several OS updates - we are now at 10.13.5. Not only are Apple failing to fix existing bugs, but they also introduce new bugs in their consecutive OS updates.

What's going on here? MacOS used to be rock solid. Now I get constant audio crashes, random reboots, Bootcamp issues, and Apple lets really dumb bugs slip through QC (like bugged monitor brightness).

I'm skeptical of the direction Apple has taken under Tim Cook. Tim seems to be mainly concerned with iPhones, accessories and political posturing, than providing necessary support for Mac users.

My iMac Pro cost me a small fortune, but the software support is seriously lacking. Apple has also stopped updating several of their Mac products, like Mac Pro and Mac Mini (where are the new Mac Book Pro and iMac models btw?), and when pressed Tim Cook throws out empty promises like "We believe strongly in the Mac". Well, do something about it then.

 

[MacDawg]

Is there a template somewhere that people use to make these posts?

 

[Redneck1089]

Is there a template somewhere that people use to make these posts?

Or maybe those that have invested a significant sum in their computer all eventually come to the same conclusion - that Apple's software is now crap. The OP is right -- these issues have been around for months now and there's no fix in sight, despite dozen upon dozens of people making bug reports to Apple.

 

[Kingcr]

-Bootcamp audio driver doesn't work properly

-Latest version of Magic keyboard and mouse didn't work wirelessly in Bootcamp for several months.

-Very poor Bootcamp GPU driver, which was nearly useless for gaming

Apple’s bootcamp drivers are pretty much the bare minimum and when things go wrong it’s sometimes hard to tell if it’s Apple’s fault or Microsoft’s. For example, the latest audio driver for my machine was working fine with Win 10 1709 but I had almost no volume with 1803. Using an older driver works perfectly with the newer Windows build. So who’s at fault?

-Apple blocking access to the SMC in Bootcamp, e.g. software makers not able to update fan control software for iMac Pro Bootcamp

Not so much Apple blocking access to the SMC as introducing the T2 chip which controls these functions and obviously isn’t supported by the software you want to use.

 

[sputnikBA]

https://www.apple.com/feedback/

https://bugreport.apple.com/

I know its annoying to keep doing it, but there is a much better chance of something actually being done about it through providing data to them there, than by a post in a place like MR.

 

[bplein]

The OP definitely has a hardware problem (in addition to any crappy Bootcamp drivers etc.).

I have had my iMac Pro for about 6 months as well. And I have NEVER seen "Random reboots in macOS (during sleep), still a problem after 3-4 OS updates." That's a hardware problem, not an OS problem.

I wonder how many of his macOS issues are related to hardware? The bootcamp stuff, I can't comment on, I never run Bootcamp (if I need Windows I fire up a VM, and that is rare itself)

 

[tubeexperience]

Apple has abandoned the Mac under Tim Cook

It has been obvious for a while now.

 

[agtoau]

Apple has abandoned the Mac under Tim Cook

It has been obvious for a while now.

Tim Cook is a mediocrity, fit as a bean counter in lower middle management. For reasons hard to understand, Steve Jobs installed him as CEO. Perhaps Steve wanted to seal his legacy with the stark contrast he knew would follow.

 

[Regime2008]

Is there a template somewhere that people use to make these posts?

Or maybe you are in denial? Just a thought.

 

[tubeexperience]

Tim Cook is a mediocrity, fit as a bean counter in lower middle management. For reasons hard to understand, Steve Jobs installed him as CEO. Perhaps Steve wanted to seal his legacy with the stark contrast he knew would follow.

Steve Jobs is a visionary CEO. Tim Cook is an execution CEO.

________________________________________________

Why Visionary CEOs Never Have Visionary Successors

https://hbr.org/2016/10/why-visionary-ceos-never-have-visionary-successors

Why Tim Cook is Steve Ballmer

https://venturebeat.com/2016/10/25/why-tim-cook-is-steve-ballmer/

And that brings us to Apple, Tim Cook and the Apple board.

One of the strengths of visionary CEOs is that they build an executive staff of world-class operating executives (and that they unconsciously force out the world-class innovators among their direct reports). In a company driven by a visionary CEO, there is only one visionary.

While Steve Jobs ran Apple, he drove the vision but put strong operating execs in each domain – hardware, software, product design, supply chain, manufacturing – who translated his vision and impatience into plans, process, and procedures. Between 2001 to 2008, Jobs reinvented the company three times. Each transformation – from a new computer distribution channel in Apple Stores and disrupting the music business with the iPod and iTunes in 2001; to the iPhone in 2007; to the App Store in 2008 – drove revenues and profits to new heights.

When visionary founders depart, the operating executives who reported to them believe it’s their turn to run the company (often with the blessing of the ex-CEO). At Microsoft, Bill Gates anointed Steve Ballmer, and at Apple, Steve Jobs made it clear that Tim Cook was to be his successor.

Once in charge, one of the first things these operations/execution CEOs do is to get rid of the chaos and turbulence in the organization. Execution CEOs value stability, process, and repeatable execution. That’s great for predictability, but it often starts a creative death spiral. Creative people start to leave, and other executors are put into more senior roles, hiring more process people, which in turn forces out the remaining creative talent. This culture shift ripples down from the top and what often felt like a company on a mission to change the world now feels like another job.


As process oriented as the new CEOs are, you get the sense that one of the things they don’t love are the products (go look at the Apple Watch announcements and see who demos it).

 

[AnonMac50]

The OP definitely has a hardware problem (in addition to any crappy Bootcamp drivers etc.).

I have had my iMac Pro for about 6 months as well. And I have NEVER seen "Random reboots in macOS (during sleep), still a problem after 3-4 OS updates." That's a hardware problem, not an OS problem.

I wonder how many of his macOS issues are related to hardware? The bootcamp stuff, I can't comment on, I never run Bootcamp (if I need Windows I fire up a VM, and that is rare itself)

I don't know, my iMac Pro also has these issues, I've had numerous random restarts and kernel panics and hard drives randomly eject themselves. It was worse in sleep mode that I completely disabled sleep and set it to just turn the display off. It still gives me many issues, but not as much as before.

Boot Camp for me has been horrendous. I've used it on two MacBook Pros before and it was amazing, but on this computer it's just terrible. A few of the issues definitely are driver issues, but I wouldn't blame Apple for most of them.

 

[Peter_M]

Thanks for the responses. Though, I'm surprised that some people here dismisses my concerns as trolling. Do you own an iMac Pro yourselves?

Regarding Bplein's comments, that he never get these kernel panicks (in sleep mode) - could there be some defect hardware in various iMac Pro units? However, I've used Bootcamp/Windows 10 a lot, and I don't have reboots/kernel panicks there. (In all fairness, Bootcamp works well now, but you need an external sound card, and fix a bad Bluetooth driver.) I thought 10.13.5 fixed the kernel panicks, because I didn't have them for a couple weeks, but yesterday it happened again. My guess is software bugs/issues. However, the sound crashes happens more and more frequently. I've reported all these issues to Apple with sysdiagnose files btw., even several times (different OS versions).

The SMC issue should not be connected to the T2-chip btw., because fan control software works fine in macOS on iMac Pro. Probably Apple changed something, maybe inadvertently.

I've noticed that OS updates have become more spotty on my other Apple devices too - iPhone, MacBook. So this is not an issue only pertaining to my iMac Pro. Sounds like many iMac Pro users are experiencing similar issues, so let's hope that Apple figures this out.

Thanks again.

 

[Kingcr]

The SMC issue should not be connected to the T2-chip btw., because fan control software works fine in macOS on iMac Pro.

No, this argument doesn't necessarily hold. The reason being that accessing "SMC" functions in macOS is done via calls to IOKit. Because of the abstraction layer, software running on macOS would have no idea whether a particular function was actually provided by the T2 (iMac Pro) or SMC (everything else). The same doesn't hold true for Windows.

 

[sputnikBA]

Regarding Bplein's comments, that he never get these kernel panicks (in sleep mode) - could there be some defect hardware in various iMac Pro units?

I’m on mobile now so I’ll have to look for the exact thread when I have access to a desktop — but there was a thread where someone was having similar issues with their iMac Pro and was getting extremely frustrated with Apple / Apple support not being able to resolve it, only to later find out that the entire issue was being caused by a hardware driver for one of their external drives and not the iMP itself.

Might be something worth looking into. The Bootcamp drivers definitely need some additional work though because I think there is some specialist stuff with the T2 chips that needs more attention.

 

[alien3dx]

Thanks for the responses. Though, I'm surprised that some people here dismisses my concerns as trolling. Do you own an iMac Pro yourselves?

Regarding Bplein's comments, that he never get these kernel panicks (in sleep mode) - could there be some defect hardware in various iMac Pro units? However, I've used Bootcamp/Windows 10 a lot, and I don't have reboots/kernel panicks there. (In all fairness, Bootcamp works well now, but you need an external sound card, and fix a bad Bluetooth driver.) I thought 10.13.5 fixed the kernel panicks, because I didn't have them for a couple weeks, but yesterday it happened again. My guess is software bugs/issues. However, the sound crashes happens more and more frequently. I've reported all these issues to Apple with sysdiagnose files btw., even several times (different OS versions).

The SMC issue should not be connected to the T2-chip btw., because fan control software works fine in macOS on iMac Pro. Probably Apple changed something, maybe inadvertently.

I've noticed that OS updates have become more spotty on my other Apple devices too - iPhone, MacBook. So this is not an issue only pertaining to my iMac Pro. Sounds like many iMac Pro users are experiencing similar issues, so let's hope that Apple figures this out.

Thanks again.

sorry , i'm just a bit weird one thing . external sound card ? or dac ?

 

[Peter_M]

Thanks for the responses, but I've read about the external HD drives causing crashes, this is not the case here. I only use one external HD once in a while, but I installed no extra software drivers for it. The crashes happen when nothing extra is plugged in, not my external Thunderbolt sound card (Focusrite Clarett 2pre) either. Maybe the Focusrite Clarett sound card driver is the culprit? I also get kernel panicks and sound crashes, when I only use the internal speakers (external sound card turned off). That's the only non-macOS thing I can think of.

The sound card didn't crash my previous iMac, but I could always try to uninstall the Focusrite driver and see if things improve - doubtful though.

I did complain to Apple about the SMC issue in Bootcamp (as a bug report), and they simply stated that "it works as intended". Apple could update their Bootcamp drivers to fix this issue, but they don't want to for some reason.

Let's hope Apple can fix the issues with the iMac Pro. It's otherwise a great machine, if the software bugs can be worked out.

 

[BurgDog]

I suspect Apple is having problems getting qualified engineers. The ones they can get work in the iDevices and related software as that is where the value to Apple is. Lots of demand from many companies but not many people with the required skills and other necessary qualifications available to hire. Easier to get qualified Emoji and Apple Watch designers.

 

[dannys1]

I also get kernel panicks

Are you sure they're kernal panics? You're getting the kernal panic screen that appears. Or are you just causing any crash that locks the system up a kernal panic? Because that isn't the case. Actual kernal panics are pretty rare unless there;s something seriously wrong.

Kext files, LaunchAgents, LaunchDaemons, background tasks, software and dated software can all cause the problems you've described. Have you checked console to see what it actually reports at the time the Mac is crashing? Especially with the sound issues you should be able to find whats happening - also check Activity Monitor for any tasks that might be hanging and any processes that shouldn't be there, also anything that's using excessive CPU or CPU Time. Is it a brand new fresh installation of macOS or did you use Migration Assistant or a clone to move stuff over from another system?

Kext files (drivers) load even when you don't use the hardware, usually a launch file will load them so they could always be causing an issue. There's been years and years of sleep issues and not waking up with all iMacs.

The iTunes bug you mentioned is one of many graphical glitches in latest releases. Renaming files causes them to disappear and you have to change sections to bring them back. Changing artwork doesn't update it in the drop down list until you open and close. Artwork in the list isn't displayed in retina resolution. Glitches all over the place in tag renaming and changes.

 

[AnonMac50]

Are you sure they're kernal panics? You're getting the kernal panic screen that appears. Or are you just causing any crash that locks the system up a kernal panic? Because that isn't the case. Actual kernal panics are pretty rare unless there;s something seriously wrong.

Kext files, LaunchAgents, LaunchDaemons, background tasks, software and dated software can all cause the problems you've described. Have you checked console to see what it actually reports at the time the Mac is crashing? Especially with the sound issues you should be able to find whats happening - also check Activity Monitor for any tasks that might be hanging and any processes that shouldn't be there, also anything that's using excessive CPU or CPU Time. Is it a brand new fresh installation of macOS or did you use Migration Assistant or a clone to move stuff over from another system?

Kext files (drivers) load even when you don't use the hardware, usually a launch file will load them so they could always be causing an issue. There's been years and years of sleep issues and not waking up with all iMacs.

The iTunes bug you mentioned is one of many graphical glitches in latest releases. Renaming files causes them to disappear and you have to change sections to bring them back. Changing artwork doesn't update it in the drop down list until you open and close. Artwork in the list isn't displayed in retina resolution. Glitches all over the place in tag renaming and changes.

The ones I get are usually about the T2 chip and iBridge.

 

[Peter_M]

Thanks for the comments. I was a bit unclear, the iMac Pro simply restarts sometimes while in sleep mode. When it starts up again, I get no information - expect for a query to send crash info to Apple.

Focusrite thought reboots and crashes could be a result of corrupt audio preferences files. I uninstalled the audio preferences settings files, and all the Focusrite software/setting files. I then installed the Focusrite software again. I need a few more days to test the stability, before making any conclusions.
Funny though, I never had these kinds of issues before I got the iMac Pro (iMac, MacBook Pro).

Another annoying thing is how Magic keyboard 2 (the newer, flatter version) isn't responsive enough during boot-up, when you press the option key for dual boot-up systems. This will often result in having to reboot the machine several times, if I want to switch to the non-default system (ie. Bootcamp). The first generation Magic keyboard didn't have this issue. Yet another annoying niggle detracting from the "Apple experience", but all these little things add up...

We'll see what happens. I'll let you now either way. Again, thanks for the help!

 

[AnonMac50]

Thanks for the comments. I was a bit unclear, the iMac Pro simply restarts sometimes while in sleep mode. When it starts up again, I get no information - expect for a query to send crash info to Apple.

Focusrite thought reboots and crashes could be a result of corrupt audio preferences files. I uninstalled the audio preferences settings files, and all the Focusrite software/setting files. I then installed the Focusrite software again. I need a few more days to test the stability, before making any conclusions.
Funny though, I never had these kinds of issues before I got the iMac Pro (iMac, MacBook Pro).

Another annoying thing is how Magic keyboard 2 (the newer, flatter version) isn't responsive enough during boot-up, when you press the option key for dual boot-up systems. This will often result in having to reboot the machine several times, if I want to switch to the non-default system (ie. Bootcamp). The first generation Magic keyboard didn't have this issue. Yet another annoying niggle detracting from the "Apple experience", but all these little things add up...

We'll see what happens. I'll let you now either way. Again, thanks for the help!

My keyboard and mice sometimes stop responding completely, turning them on and off and reconnecting the wire someone's works.

For Boot Camp, I've discovered I need to press and hold the option key once I see the Apple logo, not before. If I wait to long the chance is gone too. Try that and see how it works. It's been working for me since

 

[dannys1]

Thanks for the comments. I was a bit unclear, the iMac Pro simply restarts sometimes while in sleep mode. When it starts up again, I get no information - expect for a query to send crash info to Apple.

Focusrite thought reboots and crashes could be a result of corrupt audio preferences files. I uninstalled the audio preferences settings files, and all the Focusrite software/setting files. I then installed the Focusrite software again. I need a few more days to test the stability, before making any conclusions.
Funny though, I never had these kinds of issues before I got the iMac Pro (iMac, MacBook Pro).

Another annoying thing is how Magic keyboard 2 (the newer, flatter version) isn't responsive enough during boot-up, when you press the option key for dual boot-up systems. This will often result in having to reboot the machine several times, if I want to switch to the non-default system (ie. Bootcamp). The first generation Magic keyboard didn't have this issue. Yet another annoying niggle detracting from the "Apple experience", but all these little things add up...

We'll see what happens. I'll let you now either way. Again, thanks for the help!

Yeah that's not a kernal panic, it's just some kind of crash - probably a piece of software, not at kernal level - the information for the crash and what it was will be there in the console logs.

Focusrite might no have tested their drives on the iMac Pro (most likely not) and i've not known them to have the best Mac support anyway which is why I used UAD or Apogee.

The boot process is different on the iMac Pro, you have to hold ALT once the Apple logo has appeared and not before - works every time after that.

 

[sputnikBA]

The boot process is different on the iMac Pro, you have to hold ALT once the Apple logo has appeared and not before - works every time after that.

Man I miss the startup gong....

 

[Peter_M]

My keyboard and mice sometimes stop responding completely, turning them on and off and reconnecting the wire someone's works.

For Boot Camp, I've discovered I need to press and hold the option key once I see the Apple logo, not before. If I wait to long the chance is gone too. Try that and see how it works. It's been working for me since

Wow, do I feel stupid now... I did use my older magic keyboard for a while with the iMac Pro (because of Bootcamp), and having the correct timing isn't an issue there - probably why I didn't think about such an obvious thing. Oh well...

So far, macOS seems stable (no audio crashes), but it's a bit early yet to make any conclusions. Hopefully the audio crashes (and random reboots) are fixed. Thanks!

 

[dannys1]

Wow, do I feel stupid now... I did use my older magic keyboard for a while with the iMac Pro (because of Bootcamp), and having the correct timing isn't an issue there - probably why I didn't think about such an obvious thing. Oh well...

The change to the boot up is due to the T2 chip. It first checks the integrity of the system and OS before loading one so that's kind of like the old "chime"