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Wow what a Apple fanboy like article...

The Dell features a better contrast ratio of 2000:1 vs 1100:1 on the Studio Display, has a better reaction time, supports KVM Switch, HDR, has more ports available and is a 1000 USD less in purchase price. You can buy two of these for one Studio Display. Yes it does have 218ppi vs 163 ppi on the Dell but for a large consumer group that is not needed.

The Studio Display is just a fail from Apple. I looked at it at launch and was excited but when I saw the specs and price I was disappointed like crazy.
The Dell is only rated for HDR400, that is the lowest brightness HDR you can get certified for. According to the review HDR content became flat and lacked contrast on the Dell. On the Studio Display, the brighter images did not lose detail even though the Studio Display is brighter. Contrast ratio values like that often don’t mean what the numbers imply, but sales people do love those kinds of specs.

It is true that a large part of the consumer group won’t see value in the higher resolution display and that is why there are displays like this Dell. If they are satisfied, that is great. Other people do see the difference and it matters enough to pay more for a display. If it is a display that you are using daily, especially if you are making your money from it, it can be easy to justify spending more for that extra clarity.

The Studio Display is only a fail if it doesn’t meet your needs. Doesn’t mean it is a fail for other people.
 
This is Apple's own support page for ergonomics:


Move your screen a comfortable distance away from your eyes, between 20-30 inches (50-75 cm). Adjust the screen’s angle to be comfortable for you.

For the Americans, OSHA recommends 20-40 inches.
That's not inconsistent with what I wrote. My viewing distance, when I'm sitting upright in my chair is, 21". But note that defines my maximum viewing distance. Ergonomic experts also recommend that you aren't static--that you move around, which includes leaning forward (nothing wrong with leaning forward, so long as you maintain good alignment; indeed, that's better than being locked in one position). Thus being 21" when upright against the back of the chair translates to an effective range of ~10" to 21". And that's part of why you need a higher pixel density. The other reason is that, even at 20", you need a pixel density of ~300 ppi to have optimum sharpness. And ergonomics experts also recommend not reading text that seems blurry to you. So to my mind, the sharper the better, both so that I can move forward and back (as ergonomics experts advise), and so I can avoid visual fatigue (as ergonomic experts also advise). So there :p.

That's why I'd like to see Apple finally support 8k monitors. It would be nice to have the 8k 32" Dell as an option, since it's both less expensive than the XDR, and has a higher pixel density (290 ppi). Plus maybe we'll start seeing other 8k monitors come onto the market, giving some economies of scale (5k never took off—it pretty much stayed Apple-only, but 8k might be viewed as a more universal resolution). The Dell might not be as good for video as the XDR, but I don't use my displays for video, I use them for text.
 
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That's not inconsistent with what I wrote. My viewing distance, when I'm sitting upright in my chair is, 21". But note that defines my maximum viewing distance. Ergonomic experts also recommend that you aren't static--that you move around, which includes leaning forward (nothing wrong with leaning forward, so long as you maintain good alignment; indeed, that's better than being locked in one position). Thus being 21" when upright against the back of the chair translates to an effective range of ~10" to 21". And that's part of why you need a higher pixel density. The other reason is that, even at 20", you need a pixel density of ~300 ppi to have optimum sharpness. And ergonomics experts also recommend not reading text that seems blurry to you. So to my mind, the sharper the better, both so that I can move forward and back (as ergonomics experts advise), and so I can avoid visual fatigue (as ergonomic experts also advise). So there :p.
Basically what I wrote was that 30" 5K is fine for a 20" seating distance, which is a "typical" viewing distance under ergonomic guidelines, including Apple's own guidelines. And that is still true. I agree your needs are different, but your described usage is far from typical.

Furthermore, if we examine for a minute Apple's history with laptops, for the longest time they were at 226 ppi, yet they were shipping Macs with non-2X scaled resolutions, which the vast majority of users thought looked great. Indeed, I will sit with my 12" MacBook screen several inches closer than my with my desktop, yet even at that pixel density I didn't notice any significant difference in clarity aside from the fact that the text was smaller with the non-2X scaled Looks Like 1280x800, vs the 2X scaled 1152x720 native resolution. If I pushed in to say 10" away or whatever I can notice a slight difference, but that is not typical usage, so effectively the clarity was already excellent at 226 ppi.

Apple has since moved to 254 ppi on their MacBook Pros, presumably to catch up to what their Looks Like resolutions were already set at. I don't see much point in going past that for a laptop because the text won't look any clearer to the overwhelming majority of the population. Perhaps it would for the very small group of those with 20/10 vision and who also happen to sit in front of a laptop several hours of day, but even then it's debatable. Diminishing returns and all that.

As mentioned previously, I typically sit at around 25" for a desktop, and several inches closer for a laptop. Let's call that 20" for the sake of argument. Now let's compare that to the various pixel densities. And let's subtract 5" from those numbers for a young computer user with excellent eyesight. That becomes 20" for a desktop and as close as 15" for a laptop.

184 ppi (32" 5K display) is Retina at 19"
196 ppi (30" 5K display) is Retina at 18"
203 ppi (29" 5K display) is Retina at 17"
218 ppi (Studio Display) is Retina at 16"
226 ppi (MacBook Air) is Retina at 15"
254 ppi (MacBook Pro) is Retina at 14"
300 ppi (theorist's Mac) is Retina at 11"

What does that mean? 226 ppi is fine for a laptop, and even 184 ppi or even lower can be fine for a desktop.

However, I wasn't even recommending a 184 ppi desktop screen at 32". In fact, back when Apple Silicon was announced, my prediction was actually not even the 30" screen I'd prefer. Back in 2020 I was predicting a possible 29" 5K iMac release. That would be 203 ppi, or Retina at 17", well below that 20" cutoff for a desktop. For a laptop, I was predicting they'd initially stick to 226 ppi, and then might switch to 254 ppi later on, but Apple did the 254 ppi switch earlier than I expected.

So, at 254 ppi for a laptop means Retina at 14". With even that comparison, a 203 ppi 29" 5K screen with Retina at 17" makes perfect sense, as people typically sit several inches further from a desktop than a laptop, and a 17" seating distance is well under Apple's own recommended 20-30 inches.
 
Retina IS a marketing term but that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t mean anything.

Apple uses this term to describe displays where the pixels are small enough that you can’t really see individual pixels at the typical viewing distance for that device. This means that when you look at text or a curve in the screen it looks completely smooth with no jagged edges.

The distance matters. A phone is viewed up close and a retina phone display typically has more than 300 pixels per inch (ppi) and sometimes more than 400ppi. A laptop retina screen is typically viewed around 18” from your eye and retina would be around 225ppi. A desktop display is usually further away at around 24” and retina would be around 200-220ppi.

In practice a retina screen will let you comfortable read text that is about half the size of text on your older 2010 iMac.
Ok, so that's why the round letters look nicer on my recently bought MacBook Pro than on my ancient iMac. I can discern the pixel squares that makes the image on my iMac. So can I expect the round letters on the Dell Monitor to appear more like on my MacBook Pro, or would it again be like iMac?
 
Ok, so that's why the round letters look nicer on my recently bought MacBook Pro than on my ancient iMac. I can discern the pixel squares that makes the image on my iMac. So can I expect the round letters on the Dell Monitor to appear more like on my MacBook Pro, or would it again be like iMac?
The MBP pro has 224ppi
The Dell is probably 163ppi
Your iMac is about 100ppi

The Dell will probably be a big improvement and at the increased viewing distance, it will look more like the MBP than like your older iMac. You can setup the 4K Dell to display at “Looks like 2560 x 1440”. It will use all of the improved resolution of the 4K display but things will be sized very much like your iMac only smoother.
 
Basically what I wrote was that 30" 5K is fine for a 20" seating distance, which is a "typical" viewing distance under ergonomic guidelines, including Apple's own guidelines. And that is still true. I agree your needs are different, but your described usage is far from typical.

Furthermore, if we examine for a minute Apple's history with laptops, for the longest time they were at 226 ppi, yet they were shipping Macs with non-2X scaled resolutions, which the vast majority of users thought looked great. Indeed, I will sit with my 12" MacBook screen several inches closer than my with my desktop, yet even at that pixel density I didn't notice any significant difference in clarity aside from the fact that the text was smaller with the non-2X scaled Looks Like 1280x800, vs the 2X scaled 1152x720 native resolution. If I pushed in to say 10" away or whatever I can notice a slight difference, but that is not typical usage, so effectively the clarity was already excellent at 226 ppi.

Apple has since moved to 254 ppi on their MacBook Pros, presumably to catch up to what their Looks Like resolutions were already set at. I don't see much point in going past that for a laptop because the text won't look any clearer to the overwhelming majority of the population. Perhaps it would for the very small group of those with 20/10 vision and who also happen to sit in front of a laptop several hours of day, but even then it's debatable. Diminishing returns and all that.

As mentioned previously, I typically sit at around 25" for a desktop, and several inches closer for a laptop. Let's call that 20" for the sake of argument. Now let's compare that to the various pixel densities. And let's subtract 5" from those numbers for a young computer user with excellent eyesight. That becomes 20" for a desktop and as close as 15" for a laptop.

184 ppi (32" 5K display) is Retina at 19"
196 ppi (30" 5K display) is Retina at 18"
203 ppi (29" 5K display) is Retina at 17"
218 ppi (Studio Display) is Retina at 16"
226 ppi (MacBook Air) is Retina at 15"
254 ppi (MacBook Pro) is Retina at 14"
300 ppi (theorist's Mac) is Retina at 11"

What does that mean? 226 ppi is fine for a laptop, and even 184 ppi or even lower can be fine for a desktop.

However, I wasn't even recommending a 184 ppi desktop screen at 32". In fact, back when Apple Silicon was announced, my prediction was actually not even the 30" screen I'd prefer. Back in 2020 I was predicting a possible 29" 5K iMac release. That would be 203 ppi, or Retina at 17", well below that 20" cutoff for a desktop. For a laptop, I was predicting they'd initially stick to 226 ppi, and then might switch to 254 ppi later on, but Apple did the 254 ppi switch earlier than I expected.

So, at 254 ppi for a laptop means Retina at 14". With even that comparison, a 203 ppi 29" 5K screen with Retina at 17" makes perfect sense, as people typically sit several inches further from a desktop than a laptop, and a 17" seating distance is well under Apple's own recommended 20-30 inches.
Let me simplify this with four key points:
1) I'm sure you don't see what I see, since if you did you would surely also want more sharpness. I think that's the main difference between us—not our use cases, but rather a difference in eyesight, and sensitivity to text sharpness.
2) Having said that, I believe my use case (often leaning towards the computer) is actually more typical than yours (nearly always staying back and upright in the chair), not less.
2) Apple themselves disagree with you about what pixel densities are needed—they've made even their largest monitors (27" and 32") 220 ppi.
4) Take a look at this study*:
And these articles:
https://mostly-tech.com/tag/steve-jobs/
https://www.cultofmac.com/173702/why-retina-isnt-enough-feature/
...all of which support the finding that Apple is actually being conservative in its pixel densities, and that people can discern differences in visual quality at pixel densities beyond what Apple currently offers with its Retina displays.

*In this study, subjects were able to discern differences in quality between 340 and 510 ppi at 300 mm (11.8"), which is equivalent to going from 200 ppi to 300 ppi at 20". And some subjects were able to discern differences between 510 and 1020 ppi displays at 300 mm, which is equivalent to being able to see an improvement in going from 300 ppi to 600 ppi at 20".
 
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Very nice. Now make one that's 21"-24" please.
I love image sharpness and color accuracy, but "immersive" experiences with a lot of artificial light in my face... not so much. Ideally, I would like to buy a modern, USB-C equipped, 22" 4K monitor, but nobody makes those. Every small monitor these days is either "budget" or "gaming", both of which translate to 1080p.
 
Do these look that much better than a high end TV display? I have a (mid not high end) LG CX OLED 55" TV and have found it amazing for PC use, both with my Windows PC and Mac book. I get 4k with full chroma 4:4:4 with 10 bit color, 120hz, G-sync, amazing HDR, ridiculous black levels, etc.
 
Do these look that much better than a high end TV display? I have a (mid not high end) LG CX OLED 55" TV and have found it amazing for PC use, both with my Windows PC and Mac book. I get 4k with full chroma 4:4:4 with 10 bit color, 120hz, G-sync, amazing HDR, ridiculous black levels, etc.
Most people don’t want a 55” screen with uber low pixel density on their desk.

That is 80 ppi and would need to be at 43” seating distance to be Retina.
 
Most people don’t want a 55” screen with uber low pixel density on their desk.

That is 80 ppi and would need to be at 43” seating distance to be Retina.

There is a 48" version of the CX, and a 42" model of the C2. I use the 55" as my desktop and I have no issues with it being too large, but I get that I'm not at the optimal distance. I sit about 3' away and it looks damn good. Honestly I don't think I'd be able to function on a 27" monitor anymore.
 
There is a 48" version also. I use the 55" as my desktop and I have no issues with it being too large, but I get that I'm not at the optimal distance. I sit about 3' away and it looks damn good.
Actually, there is also a 42" model. The 42" and 48" are aimed mainly at gamers, although I've read they seem to be popular with low budget video editing setups too, albeit as secondary screens.

The other problem with 55" on a desk is that it is far, far too tall for proper ergonomics, unless you are Andre the Giant.
 
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Calibration is important to some but I'd say that it doesn't matter to the vast majority.

In the old days, I was using VT100s, monochrome monitors where the idea was that you could make out the characters. Not that they looked good. You had one font in one color and that was it. And you got your work done with it.

There are tons of people working in offices doing routine computer work. Would color calibration matter at all?
Of course not, Im talking about comparing display studio vs others , so not for email reading workers.

I asume this is a thread for 100% DCI-P3 aware people….
 
Very nice. Now make one that's 21"-24" please.
I love image sharpness and color accuracy, but "immersive" experiences with a lot of artificial light in my face... not so much. Ideally, I would like to buy a modern, USB-C equipped, 22" 4K monitor, but nobody makes those. Every small monitor these days is either "budget" or "gaming", both of which translate to 1080p.
ProArt Display PQ22UC|Monitors|ASUS United Kingdom
or a second-hand version of this https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-22MD4KA-B-4k-uhd-led-monitor
 
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Actually, there is also a 42" model. The 42" and 48" are aimed mainly at gamers, although I've read they seem to be popular with low budget video editing setups too, albeit as secondary screens.

The other problem with 55" on a desk is that it is far, far too tall for proper ergonomics, unless you are Andre the Giant.

Yeah I updated my post with the 42" LG C2. I don't feel I have to be a giant with my 55" screen though, I'm not using it as a touchscreen. From an ergonomic pov it's pretty darn good, you just have to make sure where you mount it makes sense. I've got over a year using this setup for hours every day and love it. But then again I have other weird setups, at work I have a 120" screen and sit 15 feet back at a desk lol.
 
It is still beyond me why there is no longer nger a 21 inch 4k panel like the razor sharp original LG ultrafine...
21” is too small for 2022. I wouldn’t buy a monitor smaller than 27” and would be loathe to go smaller than 32”. Once you use a large screen you can’t go back.
 
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There is a very good article that I read via a YouTube video on displays suitable for Macs.

The upshot is the below graphic. Basically, the sweet spot for Mac to display properly is 217-218 for retina display and 109-110 for non-retina.
display-list.png

Some info from the article.

Thunderbolt 2 and DisplayPort 1.2 have a maximum resolution of 3840×2160 at 60FPS, which means non-Retina resolutions up to about 40-inch are supported by most current Macs. But, that only covers Retina displays up to 20-inch. Thunderbolt 3 equiped Macs, like the 2016 MacBook Pros, can run 27-inch Retina displays though.

There is another issue to contend with. Apple’s interface design in macOS is set up so it is comfortable for most people at a density of about 110 pixels per inch for non-Retina, and about 220 pixels per inch for Retina — text is readable and button targets are easy to hit at a normal viewing distance. Using a display that isn’t close to 110PPI or 220PPI means text and interface elements will either be too big, or too small.

The Display pane in System Preferences includes “larger text” and “more space” options. These can be used as a solution, but if you do, macOS will render the entire screen to a virtual canvas, then bitmap scale it up or down to the desired size. The result is blurry pixels, higher memory usage, more work for the GPU to do, and shorter battery life for laptops. You want to use the “default for this display” setting, if you can. It’s better quality, faster, and gives longer battery life.

Blurry pixels and a scaled display make it very difficult for designers and developers to see if elements are where they need to be. Elements that animate will appear to shimmer as they move. For me, “default for this display” is the only way to go.

And more.

Buying a display with a pixel density in the red zone usually isn’t a good choice, if you want to run “default for this display”. For example, 160PPI will show non-Retina UI too small, but Retina UI too large (it’s worth noting this can be used to buy a display that shows larger text and UI for those who need or prefer it).

The 4K iMac, 5K iMac and Surface Studio are listed as points of comparison, and can’t really be used as external displays. The Surface Studio’s 193PPI display is actually perfect for Windows, where the non-Retina (1×) UI scale is 96PPI, and the Retina (2×) UI scale is 192PPI. If I could buy a Surface Studio as an external display for my Mac, I think I would.

 
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Do these look that much better than a high end TV display? I have a (mid not high end) LG CX OLED 55" TV and have found it amazing for PC use, both with my Windows PC and Mac book. I get 4k with full chroma 4:4:4 with 10 bit color, 120hz, G-sync, amazing HDR, ridiculous black levels, etc.
No, if you are ok with the pixel density and size of the panel, the OLED TV will look as good if not better than most monitors and that price point. Just be careful of burn-in. Linus (Linus Tech Tips) did a video discussing the burn-in caused by using his LG OLED TV as his primary monitor. He seems to love it though.
 
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There is a very good article that I read via a YouTube video on displays suitable for Macs.

The upshot is the below graphic. Basically, the sweet spot for Mac to display properly is 217-218 for retina display and 109-110 for non-retina.
display-list.png

Some info from the article.



And more.



This article is not scientific in any way. You cannot compare pixel density of a 32"-38" monitor to a 20"-24" monitor, and put them in a common denominator.

Retina effect is a factor of pitch size and distance of viewing. Now, you can't be viewing a 20" and 38" monitor from the same distance. Obviously this would be wrong. Now, why would a 38" monitor need a 220ppi to have the retina effect, when you will be viewing it at double the distance at least.

If we go by that article, our 65" TVs will need to be 16K, which they are not, and we still perceive them as retina, don't we - because they are so far away.
 
This article is not scientific in any way. You cannot compare pixel density of a 32"-38" monitor to a 20"-24" monitor, and put them in a common denominator.

Retina effect is a factor of pitch size and distance of viewing. Now, you can't be viewing a 20" and 38" monitor from the same distance. Obviously this would be wrong. Now, why would a 38" monitor need a 220ppi to have the retina effect, when you will be viewing it at double the distance at least.

If we go by that article, our 65" TVs will need to be 16K, which they are not, and we still perceive them as retina, don't we - because they are so far away.

The article is specifically talking about scaling and highlighting that on say a 27in 4K monitor, the PPI will be such that it needs scaling in MacOS to get the best viewing result which requires the system to do more work scaling it. The article is saying there is a PPI zone that suits Macs for both Retina and non-Retina. IMHO, the article is simply saying the ideal scenario is to run the mac on any monitor at 'default resolution for this display' which means no extra work for the memory and GPU.
 
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IMHO, the article is simply saying the ideal scenario is to run the mac on any monitor at 'default resolution for this display' which means no extra work for the memory of GPU.

We should remember though that there have been many Macs that shipped with a scaled resolution as "default for this display". That was a longtime complaint of Marco Arment on laptops IIRC

The main point being that even Apple has violated this notion of "correct setup for Retina"
 
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