Apple's T2 Chip Has Unpatchable Security Flaw, Claims Researcher [Updated]

[sahnjuro]

Will Apple do a recall and replace the T2 chip on millions of macs? I’m curious what they will do about it

 

[monkeybongo]

I didn't even know that iPhone X were exploitable. Probably a good time that I upgrade my phone this year.

For my Macs, I'll be using them for a while. This causes a big problem unless they replace them ... if this is easy to circumvent the disk encryption and obtain my data, then what are we suppose to do?

 

[chinchillas]

I didn't even know that iPhone X were exploitable. Probably a good time that I upgrade my phone this year.

For my Macs, I'll be using them for a while. This causes a big problem unless they replace them ... if this is easy to circumvent the disk encryption and obtain my data, then what are we suppose to do?

Personal ID documents and financial stuff in analog mode. Or just create an encrypted image of them and back them up online, in an unlinked account, in case of natural disaster. That's what I'm doing because I live in a disaster-prone city.

 

[4sallypat]

Will Apple do a recall and replace the T2 chip on millions of macs? I’m curious what they will do about it

I doubt it - too many T2 devices out there - not cost effective.

Maybe something serious will happen and cause a huge worldwide problem so when a class action lawsuit is filed - Apple may do something...

 

[Jamie0003]

Another reason why Apple Silicon is a horrible idea. Apple isn't ready, willing, or able to do the groundwork necessary to keep their chips secure. Get used to the Mac going from one of the most secure platforms out there to being ridden with horrible, unpatchable bugs and security exploits.

It's one thing when you can make the OS a walled garden, like with iOS. When you can control the software, you don't need to worry about the hardware being buggy. But unless we're going to have the Mac App Store be the only source for Mac apps, get used to having your computer pwned on a daily basis once Apple Silicon is a reality.

You do realise this particular issue was patched yonks ago? T2 chip is an older generation A series chip and have you forgotten about spectre already?

 

[huggyb]

Don't you have a company to run Brian Krzanich?

Another reason why Apple Silicon is a horrible idea. Apple isn't ready, willing, or able to do the groundwork necessary to keep their chips secure. Get used to the Mac going from one of the most secure platforms out there to being ridden with horrible, unpatchable bugs and security exploits.

It's one thing when you can make the OS a walled garden, like with iOS. When you can control the software, you don't need to worry about the hardware being buggy. But unless we're going to have the Mac App Store be the only source for Mac apps, get used to having your computer pwned on a daily basis once Apple Silicon is a reality.

 

[I7guy]

Another reason why Apple Silicon is a horrible idea. ..

Woah. Intel hasn't done too well either.

 

[Tech198]

Who the heck shuts off their laptop when not using it instead of just closing the lid?

This may surprise you, but I do. In fact only when i 'm in the middle of something, i close the lid (ie, if i start at one location, but wanna finish it a another)

 

[feldpos]

Well yes but on a chip whose sole purpose is security...? That’s not great is it.

The chip is not just for security. That's just one of the features. It also does hardware offload of video encoding/decoding and crypto and is also used when your machine is asleep for PowerNap. It's literally a secondary ARM processor ripped out of the iPhone/iPad lineup that just happens to have an HSM built in for mobile security which is being leveraged for desktops too.

 

[twistedpixel8]

The chip is not just for security. That's just one of the features. It also does hardware offload of video encoding/decoding and crypto and is also used when your machine is asleep for PowerNap. It's literally a secondary ARM processor ripped out of the iPhone/iPad lineup that just happens to have an HSM built in for mobile security which is being leveraged for desktops too.

Apple literally call it “the Apple T2 Security Chip”. I’m not disputing its other uses but the marketing is more or less all about security.

 

[Michael Scrip]

At least it's not a problem with the Secure Enclave.

Now that's a security chip...

 

[twistedpixel8]

At least it's not a problem with the Secure Enclave.

Now that's a security chip...

Ooooh you fate tempter, you!

 

[brianmowrey]

The second problem is that the Security Enclave Processor and OS are too trusting of the ARM application processor. ( should have its own private , non-cache coherent scratch space to gets it memory key sorted out before loading the base secure processor OS. )

All your replies should be sorted to the top of this thread. It would be good if Apple could devise a non-rewritable way for the Firmware/T2 to score trust based on cover-opening events, so we could still have fast boot and easier recovery under other circumstances. As for filevault unlock it seems the next frontier is simply convincing T2 to revert to Hardware UID key...


I think the most salient takeaways from this whole story are,

1) of course T2 is vulnerable to physical drive access.
2) That's really not very worrying for casual or even government users (who are more likely to be exploited by social hacks), and less kernel trust of the chip security would go a ways to making it even less worrying
3) all of this was effectively the status quo pre t2, and t2 has no real value for anybody except tv/movie distributors who don't want macs to record netflix content in high res.

 

[b.kind]

I think T2 was a bad idea.
Letting the federal govt mandate backdoors into all our encrypted communications is also a bad idea.

Same reason.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

then what are we suppose to do?

Don’t leave our computers unattended or unsecured?

Maybe something serious will happen and cause a huge worldwide problem so when a class action lawsuit is filed - Apple may do something...

Someone has to have physical access to your system for anything to happen to it. There’s not much “worldwide” that can grow into... unless... UNLESS there was... huge worldwide problem of... umm, so like a wave of.. a wave of hackers that are also good at lock-picking, stealth and generally getting physical access to computers. I’m thinking a few million at least that do nothing but eat and go from home to home could make this a worldwide problem?

Yeah, THAT may be something Apple might do something about... but they’d probably just invent a lock-picking, stealthy hacker detector. “Hey, Siri, are there any lock-picking stealthy hackers in my house?”

 

[hot-gril]

If it's a problem with an industry-standard chip, it affects the entire industry—thus there is a major incentive to get it fixed right away. Major time and money would be poured into getting that problem fixed ASAP. If it only affects Macs, and Apple can't or won't fix it, guess what? You're screwed. There's literally nobody else to blame or take responsibility.

Apple's track record has been good on iOS, where they have essentially 100% control over the software. Let's see what happens when they don't get to say what does and doesn't run on their hardware anymore.

It's been this way with the iPhone since the beginning, and Apple has done quite well. Single chip and OS maker makes things a lot less complex => easier to secure.

Of course, hardware security is just security through obscurity. It'll always be broken. Gives Apple a way to sell new machines, haha.

 

[hot-gril]

I think T2 was a bad idea.
Letting the federal govt mandate backdoors into all our encrypted communications is also a bad idea.

Same reason.

T2 was an additional layer of security. Older Macs simply don't have these security features. It's not like there was a regression. As you can v see v, idc and still use old stuff.