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junctionscu

macrumors newbie
Nov 17, 2011
22
0
Incredible opportunity

I am personally very excited that the focus on this is the K-12 market. Providing teachers with new learning tools instead of lectures and 5-year-old textbooks could totally change the way that our schools operate. Imagine a classroom where interactive, self-paced learning tools are available to every student.

It's like that Kahn Academy math site where learners from all different skill levels have access to interactive learning at their own pace.
 

damir00

macrumors 6502a
Oct 30, 2011
744
7
Finally providing every state, and even individual school districts, the ability to determine what to teach kids in THEIR schools, instead of having non-elected officials in another state ram it down their throats.

So "the ability to determine what to teach kids in THEIR schools" is a good thing, unless we're talking about Texans? Then it's about "ram it down their throats"?

It's not Texas's fault that other states are too cheap to take care of their own students, and take the easy way out...
 

WestonHarvey1

macrumors 68030
Jan 9, 2007
2,771
2,187
I am personally very excited that the focus on this is the K-12 market. Providing teachers with new learning tools instead of lectures and 5-year-old textbooks could totally change the way that our schools operate. Imagine a classroom where interactive, self-paced learning tools are available to every student.

It's like that Kahn Academy math site where learners from all different skill levels have access to interactive learning at their own pace.

But there are federal regulations, state regulations, school boards, and teacher's unions that ultimately make all these decisions.

I can see charter schools benefiting from this, but I don't think public schools can simply say "this is the book we're using".
 

TMay

macrumors 68000
Dec 24, 2001
1,520
1
Carson City, NV
We still need a solution to the "flipping" problem. When you've spent enough time with a textbook, your fingers eventually know where things are and the binding seems to form a "memory" of most visited pages. You can flip to relevant sections easily, often without even having to add little flags or bookmarks.

That's old magazine technology perfected by H. Hefner in the 50's...
 

illitrate23

macrumors 6502a
Jun 11, 2004
681
270
uk
this could be very interesting. sure, it's all about changing textbooks for the school market at the moment, but it won't be long before whatever tools they are announcing filter out to publishers of other books.
specifically, i'm thinking of the programming guide books. ebook versions of the "teach yourself java" type books have made my life much easier. i can refer to 6 different copies with ease on my iPad, instead of having to thumb through a 3 foot high stack of technical manuals.
but if they become interactive and dynamic and also, easily updated to fix errata or cover new changes to the topic, then it takes away the tediousness of working through a technical manual. might even start to enjoy learning a new programming language :)
 

patohi

macrumors regular
Sep 16, 2009
157
70
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

Lol....... Give a kindergarten class iPads???? Lol by the end of the year half would be broken!!!! Not to mention battery life issues.... Each desk would need an outlet to charge up..... This is a good idea but right now the iPad is not durable or has battery life that would work in the real world.... Also the IT department would have to be tripled in size..... Big dreaming for k-5... But more getting there for 6-12 and collage for sure......
 

RainingIdeas

macrumors newbie
Jan 18, 2012
1
0
Cheaper iPad models coming?

I believe this definitely sounds positive for the cheaper iPad rumors that we have been hearing....
 

peb123

macrumors member
Feb 14, 2010
69
2
Don't school boards choose text books, and isn't it all based on lobbying and sweetheart deals?

How is Apple going to be able to penetrate this market?

Schoolboards are voted in by residents, and school districts are low on cash. If someone can provide them a way to save money they'll take it or face voter backlash.
 

junctionscu

macrumors newbie
Nov 17, 2011
22
0
But there are federal regulations, state regulations, school boards, and teacher's unions that ultimately make all these decisions.

I can see charter schools benefiting from this, but I don't think public schools can simply say "this is the book we're using".

That's a really good point. If the publishers are on board though, getting the content is the first step. They would then have to pitch this new distribution method to lawmakers and school boards as they normally do (which would definitely take time).

Another big challenge is to get the school districts to buy iPads (in addition to the content from publishers). Maybe Apple will offer an education iPad (not all the same high-level features) so that schools can get it cheaper? I would imagine adoption (if any) would be slow, but I could see some Title 1 schools getting funding to pilot this.
 

PaulWog

Suspended
Jun 28, 2011
700
103
They'll have to make the options a lot cheaper. I don't know if we'll see that happening.

The biggest problem for me is this: I have always studied books using the physical pages. The way my brain operates using a book & physical paper as opposed to a screen is simply different. I am very capable and experienced working with computers, which isn't an issue; rather, the point I am getting across is that physical pages which do not have a screen have a different effect on people.

With the way the iPad is right now, one could say "Oh they can reproduce those interactions", but it just wouldn't be the same; some of the things I'll list below might be recreatable (ex. highlighting), while others really can't. The thing is, when you have a good thing, sometimes it was the best thing, and no new technology can take that away. Things would include being able to flip back and forth between two or three different pages with a bookmark very quickly, not having to scroll down a page without seeing the whole thing in front of you, being able to photocopy any content you want at any time, having the capability (if you buy the book) to highlight material, ability to flip to and from various pages physically and very quickly in their own way (it's a different approach using your brain flipping pages than it is using a computer or tablet to flip through pages & indexes). The list goes on.

I'm all for progress forward in the world of education, but I'm afraid this is going to be entirely profit-oriented, and it might not benefit students or the education system one bit.
 

sulliweb

macrumors 6502
Mar 13, 2011
250
8
For all those wondering how a school can afford so many iPads, well apple gives schools and extremely heavy discount especially if they buy in bulk. My mom is a teacher and they jujst got 100 or so iMacs to make 3 computer labs and she said each iMac only cost her school about $500.00. So if apple can do the same discount with iPads I can definitely see a lot of schools getting on board.

As a tech in a school district, I can't let that sit. We're a medium size district in our state, and Apple is the cheapskate of tech companies when it comes to educational discounts... I think they may give a flat 10% or something. It's nothing compared to the discounts other companies give.

iPads in schools? They don't give any discount at all on purchases by educational institutions. Maybe if you buy a few thousand or something, but they haven't given anything (even reasonably sized purchases that I know of) in way of discounts as far as I know.

Plus add in the textbook company's profit, Apple's profit, plus infrastructure updates to allow all this to work... I think this will end up costing the schools more money than it could ever think about saving the schools... A nice dream, but we'll see what reality holds.
 

bbeagle

macrumors 68040
Oct 19, 2010
3,539
2,972
Buffalo, NY
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

Lol....... Give a kindergarten class iPads???? Lol by the end of the year have would be broken!!!! Not to mention battery life issues.... Each desk would need and outlet to charge up..... This is a good idea but right now the iPad is not durable or has battery life that would work in the real world.... Also the IT department would gave to be tripled in size..... Big dreaming for k-5... But more getting there for 6-12 and collage for sure......

Battery life issues? Where are you getting that from? iPads last 10 hours - a school is usually open only 6 hours. Just plug them in at night to charge them.

And for durability, just put the iPads in durable cases. A few will be broken, but that would happen with anything.
 

HurtinMinorKey

macrumors 6502
Jan 18, 2012
437
169
All education materials for k-12 should be open source. Schools shouldn't have to pay a dime for them. Most of the information in them can be found for free. It just needs to be organized.

I've taught economics in college, and I think most courses in college should be open source too. You can essentially teach intro econ from wikipedia.
 

TWSS37

macrumors 65816
Feb 4, 2011
1,107
232
Good thing to see macrumors not supporting other sites against SOPA and going black today. Because these "rumors" of nothingness couldn't possibly have waited until tomorrow.
 

Gasu E.

macrumors 603
Mar 20, 2004
5,029
3,145
Not far from Boston, MA.
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/9A405)

Good question. In the biography jobs talks about hiring their own textbook writers and offering free textbooks with every iPad purchase. This would allow them to bypass state certification of textbooks, and allow school boards to just buy iPads.

No it would not allow local boards to bypass anything; curriculums are regulated by the states. A local board can't just decide to use an unapproved text based on some technicality.
 

patohi

macrumors regular
Sep 16, 2009
157
70
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

bbeagle said:
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

Lol....... Give a kindergarten class iPads???? Lol by the end of the year have would be broken!!!! Not to mention battery life issues.... Each desk would need and outlet to charge up..... This is a good idea but right now the iPad is not durable or has battery life that would work in the real world.... Also the IT department would gave to be tripled in size..... Big dreaming for k-5... But more getting there for 6-12 and collage for sure......

Battery life issues? Where are you getting that from? iPads last 10 hours - a school is usually open only 6 hours. Just plug them in at night to charge them.

And for durability, just put the iPads in durable cases. A few will be broken, but that would happen with anything.

Ya schools want cost savings.... What you said a "few broken and charge at night"..... So they can't take them home and still need text books.....
 

JonneyGee

macrumors 6502
Jun 8, 2011
358
1,222
Nashville, TN
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/9A405)

junctionscu said:
But there are federal regulations, state regulations, school boards, and teacher's unions that ultimately make all these decisions.

I can see charter schools benefiting from this, but I don't think public schools can simply say "this is the book we're using".

That's a really good point. If the publishers are on board though, getting the content is the first step. They would then have to pitch this new distribution method to lawmakers and school boards as they normally do (which would definitely take time).

Another big challenge is to get the school districts to buy iPads (in addition to the content from publishers). Maybe Apple will offer an education iPad (not all the same high-level features) so that schools can get it cheaper? I would imagine adoption (if any) would be slow, but I could see some Title 1 schools getting funding to pilot this.

I could definitely see this. No need for cameras or some other features in an education iPad. Plus they would need to be locked down so kids couldn't take them home, restore from backup, and get around whatever parental/school controls are in place (or just selling the iPad on the black market).
 

gmcalpin

macrumors 6502
Oct 2, 2008
462
74
Somerville, MA
How are they supposed to control whether I'm looking at my textbook or playing Angry Birds?
How are they supposed to control whether you're looking at your physical textbook or just spacing out and not paying attention?

Teachers aren't our babysitters. They should TEACH, not "control." If you're not paying attention, you'll do poorly. (If you don't pay attention and do well anyway, then good for them!)

That said, someone reading a textbook and swiping at tapping at a game on an iPad are pretttty easy to tell apart if you are observant. At all.
 

Bubba Satori

Suspended
Feb 15, 2008
4,726
3,756
B'ham
Yeah, except ebooks usually cost exactly the same as printed books to buy, yet have zero resale value.

Time for greedy publishers to pass some of the savings they make through electronic distribution on to their customers.

Yes, they eliminate students selling their textbooks and give Apple Corleone a 30% "gratitude".
Killing textbook sales will raise education costs thousands of dollars for students during their education.
Magic. One hundred billion in the bank. :apple:

Publishers to use digital textbooks to kill resale market.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/apple/pub...-resale-market/12021?tag=content;feature-roto
 

Gasu E.

macrumors 603
Mar 20, 2004
5,029
3,145
Not far from Boston, MA.
Another big challenge is to get the school districts to buy iPads (in addition to the content from publishers). Maybe Apple will offer an education iPad (not all the same high-level features) so that schools can get it cheaper? I would imagine adoption (if any) would be slow, but I could see some Title 1 schools getting funding to pilot this.

I expect the price of education-appropriate iPads will come down quickly as Apple adds new models at the higher end. Even in 2012, Apple could provide a camera-less iPad 2-equivalent for under $300, with the price dropping in subsequent years.
 

Optimouse^^

macrumors member
May 22, 2007
40
0
In California, as in many other states, the state department of education has to approve the textbooks that districts can adopt. Given this, it doesn't seem feasible that a teacher could create and use his/her own textbook.
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
Oh. For some reason I thought this had something to do with creating an independent textbook industry, part of Steve Jobs' dream of changing public education or something.

If it's just a way to eliminate backpacks, yawn, I guess.

Isn't the resale value issue more about college text books? What happens to public school text books? I remember them just getting older and older, I used to enjoy looking in the front cover and seeing a log of students who had the book going back to the early 1970s.

Well cost savings is a not going to be an issues. If anything they will try to get the schools stuck with a rather high re-accruing cost from the publisher they will want the schools to fork out every year for what might be at most minor updates to the book if any changes at all.

We have to look no farther than at the college book system to see the crap updates to many of the books.
Yes some books can justify being updated in a fast cycling. Most c
Example of books that can go a long time between updates and have very little loss. Math books, history books, grammar books, hell even most high school science books. Of all my high school classes I could think of 1 that could justify faster turn around (Computer science) and then another that MAYBE could justify a quicker update which was a world history book that was hitting on more reticence stuff. Reason being is the classes are generally covering well documented stuff that does not changed that much. High school science, sorry the areas you study in that area are generally very well documented and areas of science that have not changed much in decades.

If you want to higher about some crap updates I can look at college calculus text book. When I sold back my 3rd edition book that edition was around a decade old. This was 2004-2005ish when I sold it and it was still being used the following semester. Last time I check that same book is currently on its 9th edition. I happen to have my brothers copy of the same book that I did not get to sell and have look at it comparing the 7th and the 3rd edition. Want to know whats changed between them? The numbers for the problems. Nothing else changed. Hell most of those problems I could do the adjustments for the answers in my head. It was that big of a joke of minor changes.

Add to it the iPad is massive over kill for what they would want to the books to do and as such a huge rip off for the schools. A better deal would be something like the kindle fire which is 1/2 the cost of the cheapest iPad and would do everything they would need it to do.

Yeah, except ebooks usually cost exactly the same as printed books to buy, yet have zero resale value.

Time for greedy publishers to pass some of the savings they make through electronic distribution on to their customers.

Yeah I think publishers are liking the electronics books. It kills the market they hate which is the used book market. Like I said earlier they do crap updates (change the order of the problems) and do they often so new books have to be bought and students can not buy used. Electronics they offer you like a 10% savings over new book price but I can sell my books back college and after that is factored in I would save more. Never mind the fact I generally resell them for around 50% of what I paid for them if not as high as 70%-80%. Hell I have had some where I paid as little as $10 for the semester used of the book and a handful I have turned a minor profit on.

re: Costs.

The books might be cheaper. That saves the school money. But if the school doesn't provide an iPad - it's definitely not a cheaper solution for the student who doesn't pay for books (pre-College) to begin with.


Well space savings would be minor at most. Storing textbooks in class rooms over the summer is a non issue because the rooms go unused and during the year the books are with the students so no savings there. As for the literature books often times the school libraries store a bunch of class sets for those so storied with the rest of the books and it is not like they are going to get ride of those books.
 
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