dotnet
macrumors 68000
But why stop there? Why not also have a VGA port, or a PCMCIA slot? Might come in handy one day, too.
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Apple's Work on Touchscreen Macs: What We Know So Far
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But why stop there? Why not also have a VGA port, or a PCMCIA slot? Might come in handy one day, too.
Piggie
macrumors G3
Sounds a lot like the old joke of all the horse riders saying they don't want or have any need for a car as the horse is fine just how it is.
Are not we always saying how Apple does not plan for what people want now, but develop for the future and then show people what they never knew they needed?
Are not we always saying how Apple does not plan for what people want now, but develop for the future and then show people what they never knew they needed?
dotnet
macrumors 68000
We’re not talking about some hypothetical thing here, or some unknown future. Touch screens have existed for some time*, and I dare say that most people who want one already have one. I don’t see many people using touch screens with a mouse pointer OS like Windows (in fact, I’ve never seen anyone use the touch screen on Windows laptops, except for the first 10 minutes after unpacking), but they seem to be extremely popular with touch optimised systems (iOS, Android, iPadOS).
Is there anything to be gained from smashing incompatible concepts together? I don’t know, but I don’t need to try a microwave oven with built-in ice maker to know that I don’t want one. Likewise with a touch screen MacBook.
* I used Tektronix touch screen oscilloscopes in the early ’90s. For me it was a gimmick, nothing more.
Sir_Macs_A_Lot
macrumors 6502a
After years of computer use, I've already trained myself that laptop screens are NOT to be touched. I have a Microsoft Surface Go that I could probably utilize better if I used the touch screen instead of the touchpad & keyboard...I just can't do it.
Nobody. Most want MacOS on iPad Pro.
Apple simply don’t want to do it because they want to force you to buyl 2 devices.
East India Company
macrumors 6502
Yes you are absolutely right, it must be 3:2 (very close to 4:3). These elongated screen really ruined computing for screen size smaller than 19-20”.
I have an old PowerBook 12” from 2003 and despite its far inferior resolution, the fact that it is 4:3 (sic) give a feeling a plenty of useful space to work.
No. They want a device that works intuitively. If it is going to be a laptop with a touch screen, the touch side must work as well as it does in the iPad, which is clearly phenomenal.
MacOS on the iPad is really really stupid. Ever used Sidecar on the iPad? Because you are getting MacOS when you do it and it’s horrible. Really Really horrible.
You see, Apple have tried this using Sidecar, and it simply doesn’t work as a device. Extra real estate with an additional small monitor, sure. But not as a useable device.
I agree. Have just discovered, as an example of less than shift of the Mac to an iPhone/iPad, the new "System Settings" in Ventura.
In my mind, the direction Apple has been taking with the Mac in its misguided efforts to create a glorified unified IOS on Mac, is similar to an automobile engineer deciding for some reason to put 26" bicycle tyres on all cars. Or to shift the spark plugs to under the spare tyre.
ric22
Suspended
Enter a lecture hall full of data scientists, every single one annotating PDF's using a stylus, and not a single one taking notes on paper. Yes, these particular students have to own Windows devices, but still, to annotate as they do, and many students today do, you need a touch screen. Why neglect university students as a market segment, or simply hope they'll buy a Mac AND an iPad, just because their Mac is missing a key feature?
From another viewpoint, speak to any 12 year old... they grew up with iPads, and it's unintuitive to them not to interact directly with any screen they use. In a decade or less, when they're a key market segment, it's hard to imagine that Apple still won't have made the switch.
From another viewpoint, speak to any 12 year old... they grew up with iPads, and it's unintuitive to them not to interact directly with any screen they use. In a decade or less, when they're a key market segment, it's hard to imagine that Apple still won't have made the switch.
I think we can be guilty of being locked into a preconception of the familiar.
Before the smartphone and tablet it would be easy for many to be locked into the idea, “how can you have a computer without physicals controls—no mouse and no keyboard? We can be locked into the idea that, as an apocryphal quote says, “Everything that can be invented has been invented.”
Apple could be exploring a touch screen device with which we’re not familiar. We’re assuming it’s a laptop, and it may be, or may not. All sorts of research is done to explore ideas that may or may not result in a practical, marketable device. Sometimes the research yields results that can be applied to existing products rather than what is being researched.
The nature of innovation is being able to envision something that works in a previously unknown manner. Each the car, the airplane, the telephone, the talking picture had their skeptics—“What can you possibly do with this?”
It’s the nature of the masses to be skeptical. And innovators are those who can we where others can’t.
We have no real idea what Apple is working on. We can only speculate.
Before the smartphone and tablet it would be easy for many to be locked into the idea, “how can you have a computer without physicals controls—no mouse and no keyboard? We can be locked into the idea that, as an apocryphal quote says, “Everything that can be invented has been invented.”
Apple could be exploring a touch screen device with which we’re not familiar. We’re assuming it’s a laptop, and it may be, or may not. All sorts of research is done to explore ideas that may or may not result in a practical, marketable device. Sometimes the research yields results that can be applied to existing products rather than what is being researched.
The nature of innovation is being able to envision something that works in a previously unknown manner. Each the car, the airplane, the telephone, the talking picture had their skeptics—“What can you possibly do with this?”
It’s the nature of the masses to be skeptical. And innovators are those who can we where others can’t.
We have no real idea what Apple is working on. We can only speculate.
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joecomo
macrumors 65816
Not to be nonsensical, however, I am fairly certain the Minute Man missile silos do not use touch screens. This is just one example of how keyboards are still a valid method of input.
And to be clear, I am certain touch screens are good in certain applications. However, just as touch screen is good, I hope Apple does not degrade the traditional keyboard interface a al Touch Bar......
macfacts
macrumors 603
Ppl dont want a touch mac, they want mac os features on an iPad, such as windowed apps, multitasking, side loading, pro apps, etc.
Who says? I’ve never heard anyone ask for that outside of a vocal minoroty on this site, which is a very tiny minority of Mac users.
DeepIn2U
macrumors G5
Let me clarify or ask you to clarify if you’ll entertain me.
You have a touch screen laptop that you use for “input”? As in your use an onscreen keyboard or stylus/digital-enabled pen to write on the “Laptop’s” screen?! To me that can very easily make both kinds of iniut mutually exclusive after 20 lengthy emails (5 paragraphs each; proper sentences), writing 3 documents or knowledge articles and constant micro chats amongst a team of 30 ppl for 8hr a day.
Now so you use both input on a 2-in-1 laptop that can isolate the touch screen form the physical keypad for better weight distraction for digital-enabled pencil for writing input, which when enabled and used no longer functions like a classic laptop for data input since said keyboard has been folded away from direct use.
So please clarify if you do have a touch screen laptop, and NOT a 2-in-1 and use it for real world data input.
ric22
Suspended
I also hope the regular interface isn't downgraded, and I also disliked the Touch Bar. But you do realise the words you said after saying "not to be nonsensical" were indeed very silly. There's a lot of students in the world and they're all joining the workplace soon...
Why would a computer display an onscreen keyboard when connected to a physical one? My iPad doesn’t either. Work didn’t give me a stylus so I don’t use one, but on my iPad I do sometimes use my Pencil2 while connected to a MK but I use the Pencil more when its just a tablet. I even use my iPads screen while connected to the MagicKeyboard.
But otherwise I touch the screen for some things and use the mouse/trackpad/keyboard for others. After over 17 years of using touch-based devices, touching my laptop screen for somethings is a natural way of interacting with the computer. Humorously, I catch myself trying to touch my MBP‘s screen for some things because I am so used to touch on every other computing device I own.
Thinking that just because you have a touchscreen means you can’t or shouldn’t use a mouse for things the mouse excels at is a very inflexible mindset. Would you also think that you should never use your laptop’s screen just because a larger display is better for some things? You wouldn’t use a touchscreen for the heavy workflow you described, and if that is literally the only thing you use your computing devices for then a touchscreen wouldn’t benefit you… but most people use their personal computers casually as much as, if not more, then they do professionally.
Work gave me a touchscreen laptop, not a 2-1 convertible, and I use the touchscreen on this laptop. A MacTouchBook implies a MacTouchConvertible or a MacTouchPad; I’m most interested in the latter. There really is no gotcha here. A touchscreen adds versatility to how I interact with my computers, and I enjoy/utilize all methods of operation.
But none of that matters, we have an entire generation of computer users who grew up using touch as their primary input method. Apple risks falling behind and losing future Mac customers by not offering touchscreen Macs because a lot of people do not have a dedicated work Mac in addition to their personal Mac.
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DeepIn2U
macrumors G5
Why all of this and not once did you give an example of data input on the touch screen of your laptop. Not once.
You first try to deride the topic by talking about an iPad - this is not a laptop by your words you chose laptop. Why are you trying to compare or being in an iPad to this debate - it doesn’t hold water here. Yes I’ve owned 2 iPads prior.
Why would you confuse touch interaction with your iPad with your MacBook Pro?! Two different devices targeted for 2 different use purposes and the OS & UI is designed for each specifically. Again your 2nd paragraph states nothing about data input.
Your third paragraph incorrectly assumes I mentioned anything about not using a touchscreen cause one has a trackpad or mouse. I never stated such. I did state it’s much easier and much more efficient using a keyboard (for data input) and a mouse/trackpad for UI manipulation/interaction.
I think many people here think touch screens for a full computing device is better at all things than a keyboard. I’ve seen some very fast iPad 11” Pro typing by Apple employees it’s a great show.
BUT:
For short data entry it looks fast. Over a prolongues data entry, say for a full document page (8.5 x 11”) - it’s proven time and time again accuracy drops tendon strain increases (mostly due to holding a tablet) vs one trained to touch type. Think about it. We went from manual typewriters to digital to desktops and now laptops.
Many like the iPhone and Android with capacitive touch and I love it too. Yet for the multitude of keyboard shortcuts on a blackberry that power and efficiency was lost and completely unknown to majority of phone users. Today I feel the same thing has happened to Mac and PC users with keyboard shortcuts that save LOTS of time.
So where are the touchscreen shortcuts on smartphones and tablets that really make data input and object manipulation faster, powerful and very efficient? There are VERY few tasks - when you think about it, it’s not very surprising.
Again my debate is where is your use cases for real world data input - by your own words - that you do in the touchscreen of your laptop!?
Not your smartphones or your iPads or other didgital tablets. Try not to bring in other devices to falsely challenge that when neither is relevant to the device you’ve originally volunteered for this debate and consideration 😉 great Jiu-jitsu of tech I’ll agree.
I’m not going to respond to every point in your post so let me clarify and simplify.
1. *edited* Huge amount of data entry is not my computer use case. If I had to do long sessions of data input, I would use the physical keyboard connected to the touchscreen Mac, just like I use the physical keyboard attached to my touchscreen iPad.
2. I have a touchscreen laptop, not a convertible, and I use the touchscreen for some things and mous/trackpad/keyboard for others. I do not view these as mutually exclusive inputs, but rather the touchscreen adds versatility of input.
3. I use the touchscreen on my iPad for some things even when it is vertical in laptop mode despite having a trackpad at my disposal. This is relevant to the “would you use a vertical laptop touchscreen” question.
4. Using a touchscreen is as natural to me as using a trackpad.
5. There are even tasks where a mouse is better than a trackpad, but that doesn’t mean that a trackpad isnt good for other things.
To sum up, based on my real-world experience with a touchscreen laptop there is no gotcha you can think of or argument you can make which will convince me that adding touchscreen support to MacOS would be bad for me, assuming MacOS is optimized well for it that is. I probably wouldn’t upgrade to a MacBookTouch, but I would a MacConvertible or a MacTablet.
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Yes, indeed there are many students doing the workplace. However, I was using an extreme example of why keyboards will continue to be relevant and necessary.
Touch screens can be inaccurate, and if like me, often have to double or triple touch to make an entry, it can be frustrating. I seem to have more issues in hot and humid locations with entry on a touch screen. And yes, I spend a lot of time overseeing Asia for the group....So, come summer in Asia, high humidity, I am frustrated on a daily basis.
ric22
Suspended
I certainly would dislike losing the keyboard.... the touch screen would just be an alternative option, one hopes. What part of Asia do you end up in? I've spent half my adult life out here
Family has had a long history in Asia, from fighting the Japanese from HK through to Burma, and missionaries in China before that. I attended high school in Japan.
I headed up China in the wild days when Deng was still alive, and later all of Asia from India to Japan. At this very moment, back in Tokyo to see what has really happened, or not, as the case may be during the pandemic.
lepidotós
macrumors 6502a
I've got a touchscreen laptop -- a Surface Laptop 3 -- and it's mostly gimmick IMO. I suppose it could maybe be handy for someone with fine motor issues but I don't have any use for it, and I'm in the prime demographic to be in the audience for it -- Western, slightly middle-class computer-enthused Gen Zs that grew up with an iPhone 4. Well, that's not entirely true -- my enter key is missing a switch (that's on me for buying used), so I do use it to hit the enter key on an OSK when I need it (I can use U+M in terminals and the like) but even then I can (and do) use the touchpad instead.
I love the Touch Bar having just used it last year for the first time, but it's supplementary to the display, not the display itself. It's also where your fingertips are naturally anyway, not perpendicular to them, so it's a lot more natural of an input device.
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