Are all the '17 portables (MBP/MB) junk?

[puma1552]

Are the '17s bad machines to buy?

Still rocking a rock solid mid-2010 15" MBP but I'm just tired of it, I just want a new machine, and am looking at everything from a higher spec'd 12" Macbook to a dedicated GPU 15" MBP. I don't have any particular needs, but since I only buy a machine every 7-8 years, I just buy what I want, not what I necessarily need. I typically buy a top spec machine for maximum longevity.

But I'm seeing complaints about the dGPU not working, and keyboards being junk on all models (both MBP and MB).

Touchbar, could take it or leave it I guess. Not sure how useful it really is.

Are the '17 machines going to go down in history as a big "miss" for Apple? I know they've been a sales success, but it seems there may be reasons worthy of holding off for the '18 models. I'm in no hurry.

 

[gobikerider]

Are the '17s bad machines to buy?

Still rocking a rock solid mid-2010 15" MBP but I'm just tired of it, I just want a new machine, and am looking at everything from a higher spec'd 12" Macbook to a dedicated GPU 15" MBP. I don't have any particular needs, but since I only buy a machine every 7-8 years, I just buy what I want, not what I necessarily need. I typically buy a top spec machine for maximum longevity.

But I'm seeing complaints about the dGPU not working, and keyboards being junk on all models (both MBP and MB).

Touchbar, could take it or leave it I guess. Not sure how useful it really is.

Are the '17 machines going to go down in history as a big "miss" for Apple? I know they've been a sales success, but it seems there may be reasons worthy of holding off for the '18 models. I'm in no hurry.

I’d wait for the 18’s at this point, go ahead and join me and many others in the “waiting for 2018 Macbooks” thread.

 

[mcpix]

Given the "potential" for major upgrades in the 18's (Hex core, better video, more memory) I'd wait.

 

[Closingracer]

Given the "potential" for major upgrades in the 18's (Hex core, better video, more memory) I'd wait.

6 core cpus isn't going to dramatically improve performance

 

[ls1dreams]

Most of the time it's not worth waiting, but the 18's will be getting extra cores, and hopefully apple will fix the horrible keyboard issues.

This is an easy wait IMO.
[doublepost=1515908324][/doublepost]

Given the "potential" for major upgrades in the 18's (Hex core, better video, more memory) I'd wait.

I'd agree that for most apps going from 4 -> 6 cores won't matter much. On the 13" macbooks though, going from 2->4 is huge.

 

[leman]

The 2018 is likely to bring major architectural advances in form of new CPU/GPU tech. That’s a good reason to wait in my book. The 2017 is also an excellent laptop though.

 

[The Mercurian]

6 core cpus isn't going to dramatically improve performance

Where did you get that ridiculous idea? The next chips released so far with extra cores for mobile (Kaby-Lake-R) and desktop(coffee lake) are much faster than their predecessors

 

[ascender]

The 2018 models may be faster, but for most people the current machines are more than fast enough.

Try the keyboard out before you label it as "junk". You might like it. You might not, but its highly unlikely they'll radically change it in 2018 as it would probably need a case redesign to accommodate any keys with more travel.

Its the same old story, if you keep waiting for the next model to come out, you'll never buy anything.

 

[Closingracer]

Where did you get that ridiculous idea? The next chips released so far with extra cores for mobile (Kaby-Lake-R) and desktop(coffee lake) are much faster than their predecessors

Ridiculous idea? Lmao how about yours? Faster yeah sure but a dramatic difference no way. If you need a Macbook Pro 15 now I would go for it. No need to wait for an assumed Hexa core cpu. I would wait for a 13 if it should get a quad core cpu.


My 17" 15 inch with the quad core i7 and AMD 560 is good enough for me.

 

[Fishrrman]

"Are the '17s bad machines to buy?"

Let's just say that they have a higher-than-normal probability of experiencing keyboard failures -- an expensive fix once the warranty runs out (about $700, because the entire top case has to be replaced, you can't just "replace the keyboard").

So... if you get one, it's probably a good move to get AppleCare along with it.

I, too, had a 2010 MBPro, and I, too, got the desire "for something newer".
For me, it was back in December 2016, just after the 2016 MBPro's came out.
I went to the store, checked the 2016 vis-a-vis the 2015 design "side-by-side" -- and bought the 2015 instead. I liked the older-style keyboard better and I liked the legacy ports. Of course, the keyboard problems of the 16/17 models had not yet manifested itself.

More than a year later, I'm comfortable with my decision.

As others have suggested, if you can "hold out", might be a better move to "wait for the 2018's..."

 

[Glmnet1]

Ridiculous idea? Lmao how about yours? Faster yeah sure but a dramatic difference no way. If you need a Macbook Pro 15 now I would go for it. No need to wait for an assumed Hexa core cpu. I would wait for a 13 if it should get a quad core cpu.


My 17" 15 inch with the quad core i7 and AMD 560 is good enough for me.

I don't know when you bought yours but we're now in January, 5 months before WWDC, and OP said he's in no hurry. It makes a lot of sense to wait a few months considering the possible upgrades coming.

Sure the performance would be good enough now but why not wait a little and get a better value out of the purchase.

 

[puma1552]

Yeah I think at this point I'd wait for the '18s at minimum since we are already probably mid-way between '17s and '18s and there just seems to be be too many problems with the 2017s.

Went to Best Buy this morning just to play with sizes. Don't think I'm really interested in the 13" MBP, I want to go all out wth a 15" or go for max portability with the 12" Macbook. Again, I have no real needs for my machine so it's more just about what I want/like.

Observations:

-Playing with the Macbook, I just don't know if I like the form factor. I've always preferred the slab sides of the MBP and never cared for the wedge shape. I also like the expansive speaker grilles on the 15" flanking the keyboard. Macbook also looks weird being barely wider than the keyboard. Top spec MB also approaches $2k, but I don't see the machine being really feasible for more than 3-4 years, so while cheaper than a MBP, it might be more expensive in the long run since I'd need to upgrade sooner. MB was a nice idea because I could probably get rid of my iPad Air 2 as well as my 24" LED ACD and simplify my life a bit.

-The 15" MBP just feels so right. Optioned the way I want is more like $3k, but it will surely last longer than a MB. It would also allow me to keep my LED ACD and then I would keep my iPad and the 15" would basically be permanently docked like my current one. I'm really ok either docking a 15" and keeping my current setup, or simplifying my life with the 12" MB so this factor is basically a wash. It IS nice to have that ACD real estate though - I certainly have the desk space for it.

So I guess I'm leaning towards a MBP, but it really needs to have 32 GB RAM (considering we've been stuck at 16 max for six freakin' years now, we are on the verge of 32 GB) and 1 TB SSD for around $3k out the door including tax. Right now a 1 TB machine with 16 GB is more like 3300-3400 out the door with tax which is just too much for what you get currently. The current keyboard and touchbar are pretty whatever and Apple went overboard with the trackpad. Lack of Magsafe blows too. With Jonny saying he's listening, I'm hoping some of these things get rectified, but I'm guessing that wouldn't happen until 2019 unfortunately so I don't know.

Guess I'll wait and see what the '18s bring, I want a machine I can keep for a long time (in fact this mid-2010 MBP is a free AC replacement for my original late-'08 machine so it's been a decade since I laid out cash). It's really gotta feel like a substantial - and worthwhile - upgrade, and right now the '17s just seem like they are going to go down in history as a real miss for Apple. When I bought my top BTO spec 2.8 Core2Duo late-'08, it felt like it was worth every single penny of the $3100 I laid out and I loved it to death. Then Apple replaced it for free with my current machine (which was great and appreciated), but I've never had that same amazeballs feeling for this one as I did the original '08 machine. I'm looking for that feeling again with the next machine and I don't think the '17s do it for me in that department.

All that said, my mid-2010 says 'service battery' (1000ish cycles on it) and occasionally shuts itself off and restarts while using, so not sure how long it will last. Probably a slow death so I can probably still wait it out a bit.

 

[ls1dreams]

The 2018 models may be faster, but for most people the current machines are more than fast enough.

Try the keyboard out before you label it as "junk". You might like it. You might not, but its highly unlikely they'll radically change it in 2018 as it would probably need a case redesign to accommodate any keys with more travel.

Its the same old story, if you keep waiting for the next model to come out, you'll never buy anything.

I just have to continue to disagree. OP is in no rush. The '18 will be one of the biggest leaps in power we've seen in a long time. Yes, the new keyboard may not have much different travel, but I sure hope they find a way to make them more reliable because no one on here is going to want to pay $700 to replace a keyboard in 2, 3, 4, or 5 years from now.

This is one of the easiest wait instead of buy now times for anyone that doesn't desperately need a replacement ASAP. (machine failure, etc).

 

[cambookpro]

Yeah I think at this point I'd wait for the '18s at minimum since we are already probably mid-way between '17s and '18s and there just seems to be be too many problems with the 2017s.

Went to Best Buy this morning just to play with sizes. Don't think I'm really interested in the 13" MBP, I want to go all out wth a 15" or go for max portability with the 12" Macbook. Again, I have no real needs for my machine so it's more just about what I want/like.

Observations:

-Playing with the Macbook, I just don't know if I like the form factor. I've always preferred the slab sides of the MBP and never cared for the wedge shape. I also like the expansive speaker grilles on the 15" flanking the keyboard. Macbook also looks weird being barely wider than the keyboard. Top spec MB also approaches $2k, but I don't see the machine being really feasible for more than 3-4 years, so while cheaper than a MBP, it might be more expensive in the long run since I'd need to upgrade sooner. MB was a nice idea because I could probably get rid of my iPad Air 2 as well as my 24" LED ACD and simplify my life a bit.

-The 15" MBP just feels so right. Optioned the way I want is more like $3k, but it will surely last longer than a MB. It would also allow me to keep my LED ACD and then I would keep my iPad and the 15" would basically be permanently docked like my current one. I'm really ok either docking a 15" and keeping my current setup, or simplifying my life with the 12" MB so this factor is basically a wash. It IS nice to have that ACD real estate though - I certainly have the desk space for it.

So I guess I'm leaning towards a MBP, but it really needs to have 32 GB RAM (considering we've been stuck at 16 max for six freakin' years now, we are on the verge of 32 GB) and 1 TB SSD for around $3k out the door including tax. Right now a 1 TB machine with 16 GB is more like 3300-3400 out the door with tax which is just too much for what you get currently. The current keyboard and touchbar are pretty whatever and Apple went overboard with the trackpad. Lack of Magsafe blows too. With Jonny saying he's listening, I'm hoping some of these things get rectified, but I'm guessing that wouldn't happen until 2019 unfortunately so I don't know.

Guess I'll wait and see what the '18s bring, I want a machine I can keep for a long time (in fact this mid-2010 MBP is a free AC replacement for my original late-'08 machine so it's been a decade since I laid out cash). It's really gotta feel like a substantial - and worthwhile - upgrade, and right now the '17s just seem like they are going to go down in history as a real miss for Apple. When I bought my top BTO spec 2.8 Core2Duo late-'08, it felt like it was worth every single penny of the $3100 I laid out and I loved it to death. Then Apple replaced it for free with my current machine (which was great and appreciated), but I've never had that same amazeballs feeling for this one as I did the original '08 machine. I'm looking for that feeling again with the next machine and I don't think the '17s do it for me in that department.

All that said, my mid-2010 says 'service battery' (1000ish cycles on it) and occasionally shuts itself off and restarts while using, so not sure how long it will last. Probably a slow death so I can probably still wait it out a bit.

While I'd certainly wait for the 2018 models at this point, I wouldn't hold out much hope for the keyboard, MagSafe (or lack thereof), or trackpad to be changed. Apple are nothing if not stubborn, and considering these were only redesigned in 2016, I would wager that these won't be changed. 32GB RAM and 1TB SSD for $3k also seems a bit optimistic.

A hexacore 15" machine might provide a very nice performance boost, but you have to ask yourself if you'd be happy essentially buying a computer which is, for all intents and purposes, just a more powerful version of the machines they sell now.

It sounds like you're not enamoured by the design decisions Apple have made, so I would just be mindful of the most likely scenario!

An option you could consider is buying a model closer to the base rather than a higher spec, and replacing it sooner. If you don't need 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD etc. now, it may be worth buying something cheaper and selling it to buy the ~2020 MacBook Pro, rather than keeping it for 7-8 years.

 

[Closingracer]

I just have to continue to disagree. OP is in no rush. The '18 will be one of the biggest leaps in power we've seen in a long time. Yes, the new keyboard may not have much different travel, but I sure hope they find a way to make them more reliable because no one on here is going to want to pay $700 to replace a keyboard in 2, 3, 4, or 5 years from now.

This is one of the easiest wait instead of buy now times for anyone that doesn't desperately need a replacement ASAP. (machine failure, etc).

Biggest leaps of power? Lmao. Short answer is no you're wrong.

 

[Closingracer]

I don't know when you bought yours but we're now in January, 5 months before WWDC, and OP said he's in no hurry. It makes a lot of sense to wait a few months considering the possible upgrades coming.

Sure the performance would be good enough now but why not wait a little and get a better value out of the purchase.

I bought mine in July. Either way you can find a good deal from places like Bestbuy for a 17 model year.

 

[adamh10]

I have a max-spec 2017 MacBook Pro 15-inch and have not had any issues at all with it and to be honest, it's the best computer I've owned and I have very few complaints - particularly regarding hardware.

Major issues? Maybe people don't like they keyboard - a matter of opinion - but mine has worked solidly since I purchased and I haven't had any issues, and I love the way they click and feel under my fingers. TouchBar? Amazing. For graphically intense applications I use with a million features - being able to have quick shortcuts at my fingertips is game-changing and I am so used to using TouchBar now that I couldn't have a notebook without one anymore.

Honestly, while the 18's may bring hexacore CPU's and maybe quad core to the 13", in the 15" for most everyday applications 4 vs 6 core isn't going to make a major performance difference as many applications don't unitize that many cores.

What would be game changer for me? More than 16GB of RAM! I mean seriously. I'd love at least 32GB to be honest, but given how solid the 2017 is, waiting solely for the RAM wouldn't take away my recommendation to buy.

As someone said, if you keep waiting... you never buy. Something better is always coming, but what we have is always already amazing.

Cheers

 

[coolX]

Consider also that the resale value of 17 models may be lower than expected if the 18 models address the keyboard situation.

 

[utgjon]

My good lord... macrumors sure knows how to kick up a fuss about an issue that (in the context of total sales) must be completely insignificant to the rest of the world.

I have a 2017, it is perfectly fine. There is no issue with the dGPU, the keyboard, scratches out of the box, speakers blowing or anything like that.

Oh, and it's running High Sierra without a glitch for good measure.

To call it 'junk' is hilarious and completely discredits you as one of the 'professionally offended' twonks on here.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

Yeah I think at this point I'd wait for the '18s at minimum since we are already probably mid-way between '17s and '18s and there just seems to be be too many problems with the 2017s.

Went to Best Buy this morning just to play with sizes. Don't think I'm really interested in the 13" MBP, I want to go all out wth a 15" or go for max portability with the 12" Macbook. Again, I have no real needs for my machine so it's more just about what I want/like.

Observations:

-Playing with the Macbook, I just don't know if I like the form factor. I've always preferred the slab sides of the MBP and never cared for the wedge shape. I also like the expansive speaker grilles on the 15" flanking the keyboard. Macbook also looks weird being barely wider than the keyboard. Top spec MB also approaches $2k, but I don't see the machine being really feasible for more than 3-4 years, so while cheaper than a MBP, it might be more expensive in the long run since I'd need to upgrade sooner. MB was a nice idea because I could probably get rid of my iPad Air 2 as well as my 24" LED ACD and simplify my life a bit.

-The 15" MBP just feels so right. Optioned the way I want is more like $3k, but it will surely last longer than a MB. It would also allow me to keep my LED ACD and then I would keep my iPad and the 15" would basically be permanently docked like my current one. I'm really ok either docking a 15" and keeping my current setup, or simplifying my life with the 12" MB so this factor is basically a wash. It IS nice to have that ACD real estate though - I certainly have the desk space for it.

So I guess I'm leaning towards a MBP, but it really needs to have 32 GB RAM (considering we've been stuck at 16 max for six freakin' years now, we are on the verge of 32 GB) and 1 TB SSD for around $3k out the door including tax. Right now a 1 TB machine with 16 GB is more like 3300-3400 out the door with tax which is just too much for what you get currently. The current keyboard and touchbar are pretty whatever and Apple went overboard with the trackpad. Lack of Magsafe blows too. With Jonny saying he's listening, I'm hoping some of these things get rectified, but I'm guessing that wouldn't happen until 2019 unfortunately so I don't know.

Guess I'll wait and see what the '18s bring, I want a machine I can keep for a long time (in fact this mid-2010 MBP is a free AC replacement for my original late-'08 machine so it's been a decade since I laid out cash). It's really gotta feel like a substantial - and worthwhile - upgrade, and right now the '17s just seem like they are going to go down in history as a real miss for Apple. When I bought my top BTO spec 2.8 Core2Duo late-'08, it felt like it was worth every single penny of the $3100 I laid out and I loved it to death. Then Apple replaced it for free with my current machine (which was great and appreciated), but I've never had that same amazeballs feeling for this one as I did the original '08 machine. I'm looking for that feeling again with the next machine and I don't think the '17s do it for me in that department.

All that said, my mid-2010 says 'service battery' (1000ish cycles on it) and occasionally shuts itself off and restarts while using, so not sure how long it will last. Probably a slow death so I can probably still wait it out a bit.

Why worry about 32gb of RAM?? If you say a MacBook will be computer enough for what you do you will never need or want 32gb of RAM it would be a complete waste of money.

 

[puma1552]

Why worry about 32gb of RAM?? If you say a MacBook will be computer enough for what you do you will never need or want 32gb of RAM it would be a complete waste of money.

Because if I buy a MBP, I'm just not going to buy one with the same amount of RAM I could've got 6 years ago. I want this computer to last another 6-8 years if I'm spending 3 grand, and 32 GB is key to that longevity.

Remember when people said nobody could possibly need 4 GB?

 

[Samuelsan2001]

Because if I buy a MBP, I'm just not going to buy one with the same amount of RAM I could've got 6 years ago. I want this computer to last another 6-8 years if I'm spending 3 grand, and 32 GB is key to that longevity.

Remember when people said nobody could possibly need 4 GB?

All your posts indicate a very simple use case , 32gb is a massive amount of ram even the majority of people editing 4K movies don’t need that sort of RAM in a portable machine. If you will never even use 16gb of ram (and everything you have said indicates this) then 32gb of ram will mean nothing now, in three years time or 6 or 8 years time.

I have had 8gb of ram in my laptops for 8 years, if I was buying today I would still get 8gb of ram. Why?? Because I have no ram pressure now and I have no plans to do anything that will need more ram and in 5years time 8gb will still be absolutely fine for my usage and any money I spend on more ram is a waste.

You state that you are fine with the performance of a fan less 5watt chip (retina MacBook), if that would be fine for you for years to come then RAM limiting what you can do just isn’t going to be an issue for you, even if you just get 8gb now i’m Pretty certain you’ll never even notice.

Of course buy what you like but don’t give us these b*llsh*t justifications when it is clear that spec chasing will make no difference whatsoever to you.

 

[puma1552]

All your posts indicate a very simple use case , 32gb is a massive amount of ram even the majority of people editing 4K movies don’t need that sort of RAM in a portable machine. If you will never even use 16gb of ram (and everything you have said indicates this) then 32gb of ram will mean nothing now, in three years time or 6 or 8 years time.

I have had 8gb of ram in my laptops for 8 years, if I was buying today I would still get 8gb of ram. Why?? Because I have no ram pressure now and I have no plans to do anything that will need more ram and in 5years time 8gb will still be absolutely fine for my usage and any money I spend on more ram is a waste.

You state that you are fine with the performance of a fan less 5watt chip (retina MacBook), if that would be fine for you for years to come then RAM limiting what you can do just isn’t going to be an issue for you, even if you just get 8gb now i’m Pretty certain you’ll never even notice.

Of course buy what you like but don’t give us these b*llsh*t justifications when it is clear that spec chasing will make no difference whatsoever to you.

This is a tired argument.

I'm not paying 3 grand for a machine with less than 32 GB of RAM in 2017, 2018, or beyond. Don't get so upset about it. I want 32 GB of RAM and that's all I need to say. I don't need a use case justification, but it certainly doesn't hurt the futureproofing of the machine for the long haul either because neither you nor I know what the demands will be in 8 years, or what I'll be doing with the machine at that point in time.

 

[xraydoc]

This is a tired argument.

I'm not paying 3 grand for a machine with less than 32 GB of RAM in 2017, 2018, or beyond. Don't get so upset about it. I want 32 GB of RAM and that's all I need to say. I don't need a use case justification, but it certainly doesn't hurt the futureproofing of the machine for the long haul either because neither you nor I know what the demands will be in 8 years, or what I'll be doing with the machine at that point in time.

I have a 2016 15” MBP and I’m very satisfied with it. The 2017’s are slightly improved from that...

And if you don’t mind my $0.02 addition to the 16GB vs. 32GB argument... Unfortunately 32GB just isn’t available on the MacBook Pro. No one knows if it will be an option on the 2018 models. However, I bought my 27” 2013 i7 iMac with 32GB of RAM and as far as I know I’ve never really needed it. I get that you want it, but the CPU or the graphics processor are going to feel out of date long before 16GB of RAM will, I suspect, or you’ll fill up the SSD which of course is not upgradable on the new MBPs.

 

[utgjon]

L

This is a tired argument.

I'm not paying 3 grand for a machine with less than 32 GB of RAM in 2017, 2018, or beyond. Don't get so upset about it. I want 32 GB of RAM and that's all I need to say. I don't need a use case justification, but it certainly doesn't hurt the futureproofing of the machine for the long haul either because neither you nor I know what the demands will be in 8 years, or what I'll be doing with the machine at that point in time.

The posting equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going “LA LA LA LA LA NOT LISTENING”

8gb today is not the same as 8gb from 2010.