Are Apple going to be retiring CD/DVD drives entirely

[derbothaus]

So you are supporting them then, and watching their content on Netflix, rather than avoiding “RIAA/MPAA trash” altogether.

It’s one thing to say that you don’t support them, but it’s something else when you actually try to avoid their content and potentially miss out on content that you would have enjoyed by sticking to your principles.

My small amount of streaming once in a while is a far cry from abandoning principles most don't even think to have in the first place. It supports them in the most limiting of ways. AND if they move their content back to their own services I will stop the streaming. Netflix is a very good value service. And it is quite difficult to avoid entirely as they own most things (mostly the good older stuff they pick up at festivals. They don't make it. They just buy it) but I make active efforts not to contribute to current demand. The literal police listen heavy around here. Embellishment for clarity is OK in my book, obviously
I know I get some pretty blank stares when people ask if I am planning on going to see the new Batman or whatever at the theater.

 

[beamer8912]

Slow, impractical and expensive. I can burn a disc and not care about getting it returned to me. I’m going to want to keep a USB drive or external HDD.

Slow, impractical and expensive describes DVDs, not other means. They write at 8 MB/s, compared to a USB 3.0 drive at 100>MB/s. They're one-time use, so you have to continually buy them, expensive. And you have to keep 100s of them as opposed to one USB drive on your car keys or just using the internet, impractical.

 

[derbothaus]

Everyone is assuming fast access to internet though. National average is a paltry 3.9Mb. Averaging 1.5's to 100's. How many still on 1.5 that can get faster? Very easy to sit on a N router at 22Mb and say "no problem" I can loose my disc drive". Sometimes there are few options. I live 1 mile from downtown Seattle. Not exactly the boonies. I can get no more than 1.5Mb/s from telco. Of course I can get Comcast at over 50Mb/s (Maybe more haven't checked in a while) but the discrepancy can be massive. And web based deployment, painful.

 

[Beta Particle]

Slow, impractical and expensive describes DVDs, not other means. They write at 8 MB/s, compared to a USB 3.0 drive at 100>MB/s. They're one-time use, so you have to continually buy them, expensive. And you have to keep 100s of them as opposed to one USB drive on your car keys or just using the internet, impractical.

24× DVD burners exist (34MB/s) and Blu-ray burners seem to be 12× now. (52MB/s)

A USB3 hard drive is definitely quicker, but I wouldn’t be happy mailing that to someone, or lending it out.

Flash drives are slower (than HDDs) easy for people to lose, and still expensive.

Transferring files over the internet is only practical for small documents, even anything that would fill the 700MB of a CD is totally impractical. (and blank CDs/DVDs are really cheap these days) Not only is it slow, but many people have bandwidth caps.

AirDrop assumes you’re both using Macs. Bluetooth is extremely slow and unreliable.

I’m not saying that the internet, flash drives and external hard drives don’t have their uses—I wouldn’t want to be backing up my system to a series of DVDs, but to say that there is no need for optical discs any more is completely wrong, and that’s completely ignoring the concerns of purchasing media outside of USA (primarily cost, availability and reliability) and the significant loss of quality when moving to download formats for audio/video distribution.

 

[maflynn]

I hope they remove it. Better use of the space for extra hard drive, more RAM, etc.

They're not going to add more ram. battery or a hard drive. Look at the Retina MBP for evidence. They'll shrink the size (make it thinner), thats it.

 

[beamer8912]

24× DVD burners exist (34MB/s) and Blu-ray burners seem to be 12× now. (52MB/s)

A USB3 hard drive is definitely quicker, but I wouldn’t be happy mailing that to someone, or lending it out.

Flash drives are slower (than HDDs) easy for people to lose, and still expensive.

Transferring files over the internet is only practical for small documents, even anything that would fill the 700MB of a CD is totally impractical. (and blank CDs/DVDs are really cheap these days) Not only is it slow, but many people have bandwidth caps.

Apple uses 8x superdrives. Making 24x and 12x irrelevant.

Internet transfer is faster than mailing. (Really? You snail mail documents on CDs?)

You can upload a 700 MB document to Dropbox in less than 4 hours. Your counterpart can download it even quicker. <8 hours for a transfer is much quicker than snail mail. Also, its free.

Flash drives are $20 for 16GB (USB 3.0). That's not expensive. You'll spend the same amount on 50 discs you can only use once. As far as losing it, attach it to your keys. ~90% have key ring loops, they're there for a reason.

You can download lossless versions of audio now. See FLAC.

Discs are very outdated, and are going the way of the floppy disc. Perhaps iTunes isn't the best method but there are more than likely other sites/applications you can use. Again, there will always be growing pains when introducing or phasing out new technology. But if we didn't do that, we'd still be using floppy disks and old versions of Windows.

 

[Beta Particle]

Internet transfer is faster than mailing. (Really? You snail mail documents on CDs?)

Faster, but not always an option. If I have to mail something (it happens) I’d much rather send a disc than a flash drive or external hard drive.

You can upload a 700 MB document to Dropbox in less than 4 hours. Your counterpart can download it even quicker. <8 hours for a transfer is much quicker than snail mail. Also, its free.

Maybe on your connection, uploads are heavily capped here and that would take a minimum of 12 hours and eat up a huge chunk of your data allowance.

Flash drives are $20 for 16GB (USB 3.0). That's not expensive. You'll spend the same amount on 50 discs you can only use once. As far as losing it, attach it to your keys. ~90% have key ring loops, they're there for a reason.

It’s a lot to give out to someone and not have it returned. You don’t have to worry about a disc at all.

Discs are an option for giving other people copies of data, not for personal document storage/backups.

An example: I have family coming over to visit from all across the country, I see them maybe a couple of times a year. It’s nice to burn a few discs full of all our recent family photos/videos that they can take home and load onto their computer. It’s not practical to upload potentially gigs of data (modern cameras capture a lot of data) and expect them to download it, or compress it significantly so they can’t make a print if they ever wanted it. Burning a handful of discs is trivial compared to purchasing USB drives and expecting them to remember to mail them back, keep them until we see them next, hope their kids don’t damage them, or they otherwise get lose over the course of the next six months.

You can download lossless versions of audio now. See FLAC.

Really? Where can I buy FLAC albums of artists that I’ve actually heard of rather than indie stuff on Bandcamp? If Apple actually started offering ALAC on iTunes, it would be a lot more enticing, but they would likely want to bump the price up again compared to the iTunes Plus format, and they’re already more expensive than buying a physical CD.

Nine Inch Nails are the only “big” artist I know of that has embraced FLAC or other lossless formats.

These are nice ideas in theory, but unfortunately we have to live in the realities of 2012.

Discs are very outdated, and are going the way of the floppy disc. Perhaps iTunes isn't the best method but there are more than likely other sites/applications you can use. Again, there will always be growing pains when introducing or phasing out new technology. But if we didn't do that, we'd still be using floppy disks and old versions of Windows.

The floppy disk was outdated—there were no advantages of floppy disks over any other forms of storage at the time. There are still no other formats as widely supported and cheap enough to be disposable as burning a CD or DVD.

There’s still nothing remotely comparable to Blu-ray image quality available on the web commercially, and while it would definitely be possible for CD-quality or even studio-quality tracks to be made available for download today, it just doesn’t seem to be happening, and even if it did, there would still be disadvantages compared to discs.

 

[mrkjsn]

Really wish they would. It's been a long time since i used my DVD drive. I'd rather they use it for battery space.

 

[beamer8912]

Faster, but not always an option. If I have to mail something (it happens) I’d much rather send a disc than a flash drive or external hard drive.

Maybe on your connection, uploads are heavily capped here and that would take a minimum of 12 hours and eat up a huge chunk of your data allowance.

It’s a lot to give out to someone and not have it returned. You don’t have to worry about a disc at all.

Discs are an option for giving other people copies of data, not for personal document storage/backups.

An example: I have family coming over to visit from all across the country, I see them maybe a couple of times a year. It’s nice to burn a few discs full of all our recent family photos/videos that they can take home and load onto their computer. It’s not practical to upload potentially gigs of data (modern cameras capture a lot of data) and expect them to download it, or compress it significantly so they can’t make a print if they ever wanted it. Burning a handful of discs is trivial compared to purchasing USB drives and expecting them to remember to mail them back, keep them until we see them next, hope their kids don’t damage them, or they otherwise get lose over the course of the next six months.

Really? Where can I buy FLAC albums of artists that I’ve actually heard of rather than indie stuff on Bandcamp? If Apple actually started offering ALAC on iTunes, it would be a lot more enticing, but they would likely want to bump the price up again compared to the iTunes Plus format, and they’re already more expensive than buying a physical CD.

Nine Inch Nails are the only “big” artist I know of that has embraced FLAC or other lossless formats.

These are nice ideas in theory, but unfortunately we have to live in the realities of 2012.

The floppy disk was outdated—there were no advantages of floppy disks over any other forms of storage at the time. There are still no other formats as widely supported and cheap enough to be disposable as burning a CD or DVD.

There’s still nothing remotely comparable to Blu-ray image quality available on the web commercially, and while it would definitely be possible for CD-quality or even studio-quality tracks to be made available for download today, it just doesn’t seem to be happening, and even if it did, there would still be disadvantages compared to discs.

Here are some FLAC links:

http://www.last.fm/group/Free+Lossless+Audio+Codec/forum/16918/_/276748

It's really easy just to google it. That's what I did.

It doesn't quite match Blu-ray, but netflix does have 1080p streaming. iTunes also supports 1080p. There are other sources for 1080p content too. However, as bandwidth increases, so will the quality. Again, growing pains.

What is your cap at? Just curious. It sounds like you only have a few GBs/month. Even at 250GB (what the caps are around here in the US), you would be hard pressed to upload that much data in a month. Plus, once you upload it, everyone can download from the same uploaded file. Saving you from having to burn copy after copy of discs.

An example: I have family coming over to visit from all across the country, I see them maybe a couple of times a year. It’s nice to burn a few discs full of all our recent family photos/videos that they can take home and load onto their computer. It’s not practical to upload potentially gigs of data (modern cameras capture a lot of data) and expect them to download it, or compress it significantly so they can’t make a print if they ever wanted it. Burning a handful of discs is trivial compared to purchasing USB drives and expecting them to remember to mail them back, keep them until we see them next, hope their kids don’t damage them, or they otherwise get lose over the course of the next six months.

That's why they would bring their flash drive, or SD card. Most people bring cameras, computers, phones etc. All of which could be used to transfer the pictures. Also, try Picasa, Facebook etc.

The realities of 2012 are just that, realities of 2012. Those won't be the case in 2013, 2014 etc. It's sort of a chicken and egg scenario. The tech isn't built until theres a need, but there isn't a need when you use legacy tech. Sure we can stay in 2012 forever and never move forward. But that isn't going to help anyone.

For example, when fewer people buy CDs, more artists will support FLAC and FLAC files will become easier to find.

 

[Beta Particle]

Here are some FLAC links:

http://www.last.fm/group/Free+Lossless+Audio+Codec/forum/16918/_/276748

It's really easy just to google it. That's what I did.

Again, there is nothing with wide support from major artists, it’s all indie stuff.

It doesn't quite match Blu-ray, but netflix does have 1080p streaming. iTunes also supports 1080p. There are other sources for 1080p content too. However, as bandwidth increases, so will the quality. Again, growing pains.

You’re talking about 50GB films compressed to 5GB or less. It’s a significant quality loss which is not even remotely comparable, and these services are mostly limited to USA.

While the resolution is lower, DVDs tend to look better than “1080p” streaming services they use so much compression. (because you have 8GB for 720×480 rather than 4GB for 1920×1080)

Of course things will get better in the future, but until we actually have something comparable to Blu-ray, maybe don’t be too hasty to kill it off? We still don’t have CD-quality downloads years after iTunes has been around, so why should you expect Blu-ray quality downloads any time soon?

What is your cap at? Just curious. It sounds like you only have a few GBs/month. Even at 250GB (what the caps are around here in the US), you would be hard pressed to upload that much data in a month. Plus, once you upload it, everyone can download from the same uploaded file. Saving you from having to burn copy after copy of discs.

Upload has a much smaller cap than download, and you need to have somewhere that can even store gigs of data. Yes, you can find workarounds without the ability to burn a disc, but it’s just so much easier to do that. Removing the drives is just a hassle.

That's why they would bring their flash drive, or SD card. Most people bring cameras, computers, phones etc. All of which could be used to transfer the pictures. Also, try Picasa, Facebook etc.

Photo & video hosting sites generally have filesize limits or recompress your uploads. Bringing their computers and storage devices is a real nuisance and you spend half the time copying files over, checking they’re done so you can start the next transfer etc. Burning a disc can be done the day before and they can just pick it up when they’re leaving.

The realities of 2012 are just that, realities of 2012. Those won't be the case in 2013, 2014 etc. It's sort of a chicken and egg scenario. The tech isn't built until theres a need, but there isn't a need when you use legacy tech. Sure we can stay in 2012 forever and never move forward. But that isn't going to help anyone.

Again, there are no alternatives to discs for what is essentially a disposable format now.

Sure, you can argue about waste, and sure if it’s always possible for people to carry their own computers or portable drives around with them all the time rolleyes that can work, but it creates a problem that didn’t exist.

The removal of Floppy drives was not an issue for most people. It’s not like you had music, films and large amounts of data being transferred around frequently on them—you had 1.44MB of documents/images at most, and even the cheapest flash drive is a simple replacement for that.

When you’re talking about removing an essentially disposable 8.5GB storage device that is still in frequent use today, that’s an entirely different situation.

For example, when fewer people buy CDs, more artists will support FLAC and FLAC files will become easier to find.

Keep dreaming. Even iTunes doesn’t have all the music I have on CDs available for purchase, and that isn’t even CD-quality.

 

[terraphantm]

For example, when fewer people buy CDs, more artists will support FLAC and FLAC files will become easier to find.

I doubt this. It is a fairly small portion of the population can tell the difference between 256kb AAC and lossless. It is probably not worth the increased costs in bandwidth to serve a few people who want lossless.

Shame really, because I would rebuy every song I have online if I could get it in a lossless format (doesn't necessarily have to be FLAC - ALAC is fine too).

If anyone can make a change there, it's Apple. We had a similar problem in the LCD world - vast majority of monitors were TN panels and no one was pushing pixel density because no one knew better. But Apple has enough market force that they can convince a ton of people that they want whatever technology they're selling. So we're finally starting to see some decent displays coming on consumer devices.

At the same time, Apple does end up forcing low-quality options onto us too. 1080p streaming video doesn't hold a candle to bluray. And for the longest time, the iTunes store was only 128k

 

[Nerdy Keith]

What it all comes down to is this. A laptop is supposed to be a portable mobile device, which is the main advantage of it over a desktop computer. A mobile computer should have everything internally available including a device to play DVDs etc.

If people want devices without optical drives they can get an iPad. I don't like this whole idea of simply not allowing the customer to have the option of have an internal CD drive.

The optical devices installed on mac computers are not even that bulky anyway, they are sleek, subtle and hardly noticeable.

It is simply irresponsible of a computer company to be removing this option from customers when the market is ill-equipped to be offering equivalent alternatives world wide not just the united states.

I want to be able to take my laptop with me on long journeys and watch a dvd on it and I'm certainly not prepared to be using some bulky external dvd player on it.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

If people want devices without optical drives they can get an iPad. I don't like this whole idea of simply not allowing the customer to have the option of have an internal CD drive.

Yeah, I'm still waiting for Apple to put the floppy drive back in

The fact is things go obsolete as things begin to replace them. The optical drive is on its way out. Sure you may be using DVD's now, and Apple DOES still sell MBP's with a DVD player. Apple will be likely to continue this optical drive option for another 9-12 months, and then I think it's a good idea to get rid of it to further drive innovation. If you need an optical drive, keep your current laptop. Also the OD MBP's will be available refurbished for a long time if you absolutely require them. Or just buy an external one for the rare occassion you use it. Most people want to keep their computers for 5 years, and I can guarentee you that in 5 years everybody will be complaining about the optical drives in their computers. (They're so useless! They take up so much weight and space!)

 

[gentlefury]

That seems like a lot of work if you have a lot of TV DVD box sets. Still seems like an excuse to rip off their customers. Their products are expensive enough as it is.

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Unlike the floppy disk drive. An optical drive serves a more versatile purpose. I wouldn't mind it so much if apple would at the very least allow me to purchase TV shows from iTunes but they don't. And DVD is the only option I have to view them on my Mac. So are they trying to tell me I shouldn't be allowed to watch TV shows on my Mac at all?

The selection of digital entertainment just isn't extensive enough to justify this decision.

Umm, ok. DVD and floppy are exactly the same. Outdated disposable media. I buy all my tv shows on iTunes. Not sure what you're doing wrong. Expect the current (outdated) cMBP line to be the last to have it. Sd cards are cheap and easier.

 

[Nerdy Keith]

Umm, ok. DVD and floppy are exactly the same. Outdated disposable media. I buy all my tv shows on iTunes. Not sure what you're doing wrong. Expect the current (outdated) cMBP line to be the last to have it. Sd cards are cheap and easier.

Its not what I'm doing wrong, TV shows are not available for customers in the Republic of Ireland to download from iTunes.

Good for you that you are able to download them in your country, I can't in mine.

DVD and floppy are not exactly the same, in any manner shape or form. DVD and blueray are still widely being sold for film and television shows across the world.

Floppy discs where designed for basic PC applications and word doccuments, they were never designed for what DVDs and CDs are designed for.

Like I said, I'm all for the evolution of a new format of media, when the market is ready for such a move, but it isn't. Wireless media is not fully accessible in all areas of the world. In my option, its a bad marketing strategy. It would be like apple releasing the iCloud service back in the early 90's when most people didn't even have broadband. The marked is ill-equipt, its as simple as that. And I'm speaking globally here btw.

Basically without a dvd player on my laptop I cannot watch a lot of TV shows. The netflix we have in Ireland doesn't even have half of the content I watch. Its a major inconvenience for me and many others.

 

[SlyMac]

Like others have said, an external drive resolves any issues you have witth omiting the optical drive. I rarely need an optical drive and when I do, I have an external blu ray drive for ripping. I rarely (if ever in the last few years) have needed an optical drive while on the go. Your experience may be different but I doubt it. They just aren't nearly as important as they used to be.

 

[godcandy]

I can see the case for getting rid of the medium and I can make a case for keeping it. I use multiple large usb drives to store data as well as the smaller drives to make copies and move form computer to computer. It is very handy to have 128gb in my pocket and it makes an easy way to keep offsite copies as I bring important backups to my office and store them here regularly (along with online backup).

However I do some photography and some video for parties, weddings, and that sort of thing. I always give the client the finished product on a DVD. I would love to give it to them on a thumb drive but that wouldn't play on there TV properly (I know I will get bashed because some TV's will play from usb) and that they could accidentally delete. And when your talking about 100+ 22MP images plus any video I may have it is usually a good DVD if not a DL-DVD for a single client, sometiems more than one.

I think there is a use for both. I don't know if optical will be around in 5 years but I would speculate it would take a while to eliminate all of the optical media from everywhere in the world. Maybe I am wrong.

Do note that where I work and a lot of other orginizations still use tape to backup critical systems. Not really practical for home use but this is a media that has been around almost as long as computers and is still used.

 

[Mrbobb]

Good for you that you are able to download them in your country, I can't in mine.

Then you have a location-specific need.

Don't know what to tell ya, the world, the U.S. (I have to say the leader in this matter) is moving everything toward online. U like it or not, u agree with it or not, the writing is on the wall, as others have mentioned. It's just a matter of time.

I myself personally moved to disc-less over 10 years ago, nobody had to push me. I just love THIN, like Jobs. To achieve thinness, the first thing that has to go is the removable drive. I never found carrying a bunch of CD/DVD with me an appealing idea, and I seldom watch full length movies on the road, but if you have that need and can't do online, ooops, I feel ur pain.

Lots of full sized Wintel notebooks. Even them, I say in another 5 years, will san that removable altogether.

 

[gbit]

time to say goodbye
flash storage is as cheap as never
6€ (9$) for 16gb usb2 for example replaces every cd/dvd
it can get washed or taken in the shower as well

 

[nitromac]

I still prefer buying music on CDs. It's better quality than MP3, and I get something physical to hold and enjoy. I have trouble justifying spending $10 on downloaded music when I can pay the same (or less) and get a physical copy in better quality.
Plus, I get rewards points at my local music shop.

But yes, apple is going to retire CD/DVD drives as they are becoming outdated. I've replaced mine with an Optibay (which is great) and got a case for the superdrive for those moments when I need it.