Are high temperatures slowly damaging my Macbook pro 2018?

T1M_MC

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Feb 1, 2019
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England
When I run intensive tasks on my MacBook it can get very hot ( up to 95 degrees Celsius) and sometimes it can be over a very long time eg two-three hours. I am already getting ddouble key repeating issues on my d key and I am wondering if this could be related to heat and what other issues could be caused by the extreme heat?
 

Khaleal

macrumors regular
Aug 24, 2013
174
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I've seen several reports of defective keyboards when these MacBooks were kept in clamshell mode, likely due to heat issues affecting the keyboard somehow. So looks like not only dust breaks these keyboards, also heat.
 

giffut

macrumors 6502
Apr 28, 2003
376
85
Germany
Heat is the main factor breaking the keyboard, not dust. It warps the butterfly mechanism permanently resulting in double keypresses or loss of funcionality.

The butterfly mechanism is still basically the same as issued with the macbook 2015. The silicone rework ist more or less useless, as it traps even more heat and dust

The keyboard is a planned failure, there is no remedy other than avoiding it.
 
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vaugha

macrumors 6502a
Nov 3, 2011
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How old is your laptop? Do you have the 2018 i9 model? When did you first start noticing keyboard issues? Does the issue come up only when the laptop has sustained load? Does the issue persist when the laptop is cooled? If so, you could probably rule out the heat theory.

But I did hear a lot of conspiracy theories about butterfly keys failing due to heat, in addition to dust.
 
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Plutonius

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2003
8,205
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New Hampshire, USA
When I run intensive tasks on my MacBook it can get very hot ( up to 95 degrees Celsius) and sometimes it can be over a very long time eg two-three hours. I am already getting ddouble key repeating issues on my d key and I am wondering if this could be related to heat and what other issues could be caused by the extreme heat?
They are designed to run hot but heat may be affecting the keyboard (most likely it's just the poor butterfly keyboard design).

There is an app to turn off cores if you want it to run cooler and don't mind a loss in performance.
 
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maflynn

Moderator
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May 3, 2009
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They are designed to run hot but heat may be affecting the keyboard (most likely it's just the poor butterfly keyboard design).
The CPU and GPU certainly are, but the heat could be impacting other components that may be sensitive to heat. I'm not saying that is the case, but rather it's a concern of my.

For example, the 2018 Razer's SSD would get really hot as the fans were not moving the heat and that component was getting very hot. Eventually Razer put a thermal pad on the SSD to help deal with the heat. This has nothing to do with apple per say but my point is if parts of the MBP are getting overly hot, it could have an overall negative impact
 

giffut

macrumors 6502
Apr 28, 2003
376
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Germany
The 2016ff macbook chassis is NOT designed for robust heat dissipation regarding any intel processor currently in use by apple. The cpu in any macbook always runs very close to its maximum thermal limit around 100°Celsius with just moderate workloads. Any heavy workload, especially including the gpu results in immediate throttling.

This was different with macbooks before, which mostly maxed at 85°C , far away from the hardware shutdown temps of the cpus, which is around 105°C. They still suffered from thermal damage.

For sustained workloads the macbook pro is no longer a suitable choice. For marginal computing, it is way overpriced as it is.
 

chrono1081

macrumors 604
Jan 26, 2008
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Heat is the main factor breaking the keyboard, not dust. It warps the butterfly mechanism permanently resulting in double keypresses or loss of funcionality.

The butterfly mechanism is still basically the same as issued with the macbook 2015. The silicone rework ist more or less useless, as it traps even more heat and dust

The keyboard is a planned failure, there is no remedy other than avoiding it.
Planned failure? Where on earth do you people come up with this nonsense. Apple isn’t going to purposefully make a keyboard worse.
 

acorntoy

macrumors 65816
May 25, 2010
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Have you used compressed air on your keyboard? I've had a 2016 model get sticky/repeating/not pushing keys repeatedly and the air has always brought the keyboard back to 100%.

And I'm sure the constant pressure is putting more strain on the computer, I don't believe its causing the keyboard issues though. I use my 2015 MBP for encoding, the 2.8 i7 will run at maximum for 24+ hours sometimes. In 2018 the motherboard, both fans and screen failed. All repaired under AppleCare, I highly doubt all those components would have failed if I was just using the computer to surf the internet and write emails, but I got the computer to perform, if I don't use it what's the point?
 

Martius

macrumors 6502
Jul 12, 2008
386
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Yes, I think that is the main reason for keyboard failures since 2016. For me it's more logical explanation than dust. Dust is everywhere. I don't eat at my computer, I don't live at the beach, but I still have to clean my keyboard at least once a weak (I do it more often thanks to my OCD, but that's not the point). The point is if the problem is dust, the keyboard failure rate is really 100% after two years. But some people have not keyboard problems at all (even after two years) and I think those are the people who are not running the CPU at high temperatures for longer period of time.
 

LogicalApex

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Nov 13, 2015
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For example, the 2018 Razer's SSD would get really hot as the fans were not moving the heat and that component was getting very hot. Eventually Razer put a thermal pad on the SSD to help deal with the heat.
That was definitely poor design by Razer. High performance SSDs generate a lot of heat and Razer should have put a thermal pad there from the start to prevent SSD thermal throttling.
 

leman

macrumors G4
Oct 14, 2008
10,228
4,726
When I run intensive tasks on my MacBook it can get very hot ( up to 95 degrees Celsius) and sometimes it can be over a very long time eg two-three hours. I am already getting ddouble key repeating issues on my d key and I am wondering if this could be related to heat and what other issues could be caused by the extreme heat?
There are some people who claim that but their claims are not substantiated by anything tangible. If you are looking for evidence (empirical or otherwise) that running your MBP under load for prolonged time can damage keyboard or other components: there is none. If you are looking for opinions: there are opinions about everything.
[doublepost=1549749781][/doublepost]
The 2016ff macbook chassis is NOT designed for robust heat dissipation regarding any intel processor currently in use by apple. The cpu in any macbook always runs very close to its maximum thermal limit around 100°Celsius with just moderate workloads. Any heavy workload, especially including the gpu results in immediate throttling.
This is not true. The thermal system of the MBP is precisely designed to keep the CPU at its max safe operating temperature (100C)when it runs at its maximal allowed power draw (45W) for prolonged periods of time. This allows the system to be particularly efficient and keep its size and noise at the minimum without compromising performance. For instance, if the system tried to keep the CPU at 90C while maintaining the 45W power draw, you'd need larger/louder fans but your performance would be still the same.

And yes, if you try to put the GPU and CPU under heavy load at the same time, you combined power consumption will surpass the combined TDP of the laptop and it will result in reduced power delivery to both CPU and GPU. Which is a normal occurrence in this class of laptop (other laptops like Dell XPS, Razer Blade etc. behave similarly) and it has very little practical significant since workload that involve both CPU and GPU at the same time are very uncommon and almost never occur in typical software.
 
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T1M_MC

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Feb 1, 2019
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England
How old is your laptop? Do you have the 2018 i9 model? When did you first start noticing keyboard issues? Does the issue come up only when the laptop has sustained load? Does the issue persist when the laptop is cooled? If so, you could probably rule out the heat theory.

But I did hear a lot of conspiracy theories about butterfly keys failing due to heat, in addition to dust.
I only have the base 2018 i7 processor and I have had it since October last year. Only in the last 4 weeks I have been starting to get key repeating issues but I have noticed the issue is worse under heat and just after an intense task where I can get sometimes 4 key repeats. When I just start up the laptop the repeats don't happen as often but still do so it is possible that it is heat related but would it not take a much more extreme temperature to warp the keys?
[doublepost=1549797962][/doublepost]
Have you used compressed air on your keyboard? I've had a 2016 model get sticky/repeating/not pushing keys repeatedly and the air has always brought the keyboard back to 100%.

And I'm sure the constant pressure is putting more strain on the computer, I don't believe its causing the keyboard issues though. I use my 2015 MBP for encoding, the 2.8 i7 will run at maximum for 24+ hours sometimes. In 2018 the motherboard, both fans and screen failed. All repaired under AppleCare, I highly doubt all those components would have failed if I was just using the computer to surf the internet and write emails, but I got the computer to perform, if I don't use it what's the point?
I have tried using air to remove any particles but it doesn't seem to do anything. My 2018 model has that membrane below the keyboard so it stops most of the dust so I don't think dust should be an issue as I have only had the laptop for a few months. What I'm going to do is after my top case is replaced I'm going to use a wireless keyboard because i cannot rely on the keyboard and I don't want to add £350 for applecare for an issue which is not my fault.
 

giffut

macrumors 6502
Apr 28, 2003
376
85
Germany
I don't need to prove anything. I just reflect our experience with several models of the macbook pro series 2016, 2017 and 2018. They all had terrible thermal throttling and other serious problems regarding quality of material and software/hardware integration, especially the introduction of the t2 bridge processor. We never experienced so much downtime before with any macbook pros and disturbing quarrels with apple support. After three years we no longer can tolerate such compromise. 2019 we start to migrate away from apples mobile and desktop hardware. It is somewhat hard as we need to rethink and replace some software workflow. But windows 10, while quirky, is basically rock solid compared to osx 10.13/10.14 and we find lenovos p and hp z series laptops very promising and much more reliable. The hp z desktop series is a revelation for us.
 

Plett

macrumors regular
Feb 16, 2016
188
137
I don't need to prove anything. I just reflect our experience with several models of the macbook pro series 2016, 2017 and 2018. They all had terrible thermal throttling and other serious problems regarding quality of material and software/hardware integration, especially the introduction of the t2 bridge processor. We never experienced so much downtime before with any macbook pros and disturbing quarrels with apple support. After three years we no longer can tolerate such compromise. 2019 we start to migrate away from apples mobile and desktop hardware. It is somewhat hard as we need to rethink and replace some software workflow. But windows 10, while quirky, is basically rock solid compared to osx 10.13/10.14 and we find lenovos p and hp z series laptops very promising and much more reliable. The hp z desktop series is a revelation for us.
This I don't understand. If you are already happy with another platform why come to an Apple fanboy site and ask for opinions? This group loves to berate Apple, that is what fanboys do. It's been this way since the 80s, and one thing we have in common as Apple loyalists the god given right to unite against all other brands! So go on have a jolly time with your "fill in the blank junk" and let us rail about our Apple junk!
 
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giffut

macrumors 6502
Apr 28, 2003
376
85
Germany
I still use macbooks at home: a 2008 and a 2011 model I needed to repair myself (gpu failure) and it works more reliable than the new ones, with upgraded ram, ssd and egpu - which is crazy to think of, right?

Yes, you are right - my time here in this forum may come to an end soon. I couldn't have imagined this just five years ago.

I was using apple hardware/software exclusively for many years privately and professionally. Now I finally understand the need to be platform agnostic. It feels a bit emotional.

But hey - it is only bits and pieces.
 
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Falhófnir

macrumors 68040
Aug 19, 2017
3,744
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Could sustained high temps cause a repeat of the radeongate failures from 2011 machines? If I understand correctly the problem there was the solder softening while hot and over time this broke the contact between the GPU and the logic board. I assume they would have changed to solder that didn't soften when they launched the repair programme if this was possible? I know cooling on the newer machines is meant to be better than ever though, so maybe the heat can't build up inside enough to cause a similar issue.
 
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vaugha

macrumors 6502a
Nov 3, 2011
542
166
I only have the base 2018 i7 processor and I have had it since October last year. Only in the last 4 weeks I have been starting to get key repeating issues but I have noticed the issue is worse under heat and just after an intense task where I can get sometimes 4 key repeats. When I just start up the laptop the repeats don't happen as often but still do so it is possible that it is heat related but would it not take a much more extreme temperature to warp the keys?
[doublepost=1549797962][/doublepost]

I have tried using air to remove any particles but it doesn't seem to do anything. My 2018 model has that membrane below the keyboard so it stops most of the dust so I don't think dust should be an issue as I have only had the laptop for a few months. What I'm going to do is after my top case is replaced I'm going to use a wireless keyboard because i cannot rely on the keyboard and I don't want to add £350 for applecare for an issue which is not my fault.
From what you have described, the problem seems to have existed already even when the laptop was not heated. No one outside of apple has proved heat is the culprit of these key failures and it's all conjectures at the moment. But it does make me think heat *could* be the issue. Even if it is, I don't know why pre-2016 mbps w/ scissor keys didn't suffer from key failures due to heat either. I don't think anyone really has tried to take these keyboards apart and subject them to sustained heat and see if the dome switches of the butterfly keys really warp and eventually fail.

The best advice I can give you is take it in and get it repaired by apple. It's still under warranty so you should be covered for a keyboard replacement free of charge.
 
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T1M_MC

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Feb 1, 2019
11
2
England
From what you have described, the problem seems to have existed already even when the laptop was not heated. No one outside of apple has proved heat is the culprit of these key failures and it's all conjectures at the moment. But it does make me think heat *could* be the issue. Even if it is, I don't know why pre-2016 mbps w/ scissor keys didn't suffer from key failures due to heat either. I don't think anyone really has tried to take these keyboards apart and subject them to sustained heat and see if the dome switches of the butterfly keys really warp and eventually fail.

The best advice I can give you is to take it in and get it repaired by apple. It's still under warranty so you should be covered for a keyboard replacement free of charge.
I've already given it in and I am getting the top case replaced but the issue is what happens after the 1 year warranty. The repair out of warranty would have cost almost £420 which is very expensive. I hope there will be a similar program like the other macbooks if this issue gets enough attention or I may have to use consumer rights if the issue happens again after warranty.
 
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vaugha

macrumors 6502a
Nov 3, 2011
542
166
I've already given it in and I am getting the top case replaced but the issue is what happens after the 1 year warranty. The repair out of warranty would have cost almost £420 which is very expensive. I hope there will be a similar program like the other macbooks if this issue gets enough attention or I may have to use consumer rights if the issue happens again after warranty.
I know, that's why I always advise people to get applecare+ if they can't trust the reliability of the machine. I think I read somewhere in reddit that apple may not launch a similar repair program for 2018 models b/c if there were, people would be taking advantage of it. I know a lot of you will disagree w/ this but I'm just stating what I read. Hopefully we will see a 4th gen key this year and put this issue to rest once and for all.
 

T1M_MC

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Feb 1, 2019
11
2
England
I know, that's why I always advise people to get applecare+ if they can't trust the reliability of the machine. I think I read somewhere in reddit that apple may not launch a similar repair program for 2018 models b/c if there were, people would be taking advantage of it. I know a lot of you will disagree w/ this but I'm just stating what I read. Hopefully we will see a 4th gen key this year and put this issue to rest once and for all.
Is it possible to get standard applecare after 90 days of purchase as I don't need applecare plus because I don't carry my Mac around too much
 

jerryk

macrumors 603
Nov 3, 2011
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No argument there. I was not liking the idea of the SSD getting cooked like that
The problem is space. My desktop machine has heat spreaders for each of the 3 NVMes. They are thicker and wider that the drive module. They work, since the drives are about the same temp as other components near by even when being hammered (my data sets involved 4-10 GBytes of reading in a tight loop). But they are not thin and I can see how you would not want them unless you really needed them in a notebook because the fit would be tight.
[doublepost=1549826778][/doublepost]
Is it possible to get standard applecare after 90 days of purchase as I don't need applecare plus because I don't carry my Mac around too much
People in the US have gotten regular Applecare by calling the Applecare support number. At least here in the states, you do not want to call regular sales. They will tell you you cannot get it.