Are iMac G5's really this slow?

[daveL]

Uh-oh, my Mac Newbie status will be clear here: I don't know what pre-binding is. I don't think I've ever enabled Journaling.

I do have FireVault enabled, however, so that probably isn't helping.

If you have FileVault enabled on your entire disk, that's a problem. Just think about it: You're encrypting every piece of data you write to disk and decrypting every piece of data you read. At the very least, keep the stuff (music, pics, video) outside FileVault. I'm sure this is your problem.

r is an Objective C thing, because Object C allows run-time bindings, unlike most other languages. Every time you install something you see the message at the end about "Optimizing", that's the OS pre-binding. Not to worry, this is normally NOT something you have to worry. You've just gotten all us geeky types coming out of the woodwork.

Edit: Meant to add that file system journaling is on by default, so you don't have to do anything unless you've wiped your filesystem clean and created a new one without this option, which sounds very unlikely.

 

[dvdh]

As no one has asked yet (surprisingly): Have you tried to run Xbench (http://www.xbench.com/)on the machine yet? If you run the complete test and post the results to this forum someone might be able confirm whether they are on par with other iMacs of similar specs.

 

[veedubdrew]

The first thing I'd do before spending hours on tech support with a vague problem would be to do an archive-and-install of OS X. This will reinstall your OS while keeping all of your documents, apps, and settings intact. It's relatively fast and painless.

After doing this, run the hardware diagnostic CD (or DVD) that came with your machine. Verify that something isn't screwy. Also, maybe try running xbench before and after to see if your scores are comparable to other similar machines.

Even on my old 800 MHz iMac G4 I couldn't get iTunes to stutter, even while encoding DVDs, so something is surely wrong. I didn't even know this was possible until you mentioned it.

As for iPhoto, it's slow by nature, but not that slow. The app is doing quite a bit of stuff behind the scenes and is an awful memory hog (close it when you're not using it). The new version is a tremendous improvement in speed, but on a G5 with 1GB of RAM, there shouldn't be the issues you're describing.

My vote is that something is wrong, whether hardware or software. Archive and install OS X, xbench it, then get back to us. Make sure your memory is good (it isn't cheap-o third party stuff is it?) and that there aren't errant applications running in the background hogging your memory or CPU cycles. If anything Norton is there, kill it off immediately.

If all else fails, call Apple or take it to a store. They'll get it straightened out.

-Drew

I’m a long-time Dell & Windows user (though I did use Macs back in the early 90s when, until NeXT came around, they had the best GUI going). I took the leap and bought the 20” iMac G5 in December. 1.8Ghz PowerPC G5, 1GB DDR SDRAM, 160 GB harddrive.

The press, and the reviews, said that this iMac is blazingly fast. That it screams.

My iMac seems so slow, so sluggish, that I am beginning to question how badly Mac users may have had it all this time. I am the one screaming, not the iMac.

Three examples of unacceptible slowness:

1) When selecting multiple individual photos in iPhoto (using Command-Mouseclick), the blue selection box cannot keep up, the CPU stays spiked near 100%, the Rotate menu is seriously delayed, and the song playing on iTunes skips.


2) When syncing with an iPod Mini while playing a different song in iTunes, with iPhoto open in the background (but not being used), the CPU is maxing out, and iTunes skips repeatedly.

3) And, perhaps the most annoying and unacceptible of them all: When trying to listen to a smart playlist (U2) through a remote Airport Express (using AirTunes and iTunes), the music drops out, randomly, for about 1 second each time, about 2-5 minutes between each drop. The only apps open are iTunes and Finder. This is worse than a skipping CD! The Wi-Fi signal strength appears to be at maximum, and I’ve tried it with both Interference Robustness on and off--no difference in the skipping problem.

Please, does anyone have any ideas for why my “screaming” iMac G5 is so slow? Perhaps I have a defective unit? Or perhaps it is too much to ask that this Mac can do two things at the sametime? Or just do one thing, iTunes, well?

Can anyone reassure me that I haven’t bought $2.4K of junk?

Signed,
Originally Optimistic, but Now Seriously Concerned

 

[fraeone]

Filevault + Music in lossless format sounds like a likely explanation. Lossless requires a huge amount of storage, which in and of itself is ok, but encrypting/decrypting that huge amount of data on the fly is probably not advisable.

Furthermore, music generally doesn't constitute as "sensitive" data, although movies and pictures could. Take your media out of the vault, or turn the vault off altogether if your Mac is in a secure location and password protected, network security is strong enough that I wouldn't be too worried about remote intruders stealing files, particularly massive lossless audio files.

 

[daveL]

The first thing I'd do before spending hours on tech support with a vague problem would be to do an archive-and-install of OS X. This will reinstall your OS while keeping all of your documents, apps, and settings intact. It's relatively fast and painless.

After doing this, run the hardware diagnostic CD (or DVD) that came with your machine. Verify that something isn't screwy. Also, maybe try running xbench before and after to see if your scores are comparable to other similar machines.

Even on my old 800 MHz iMac G4 I couldn't get iTunes to stutter, even while encoding DVDs, so something is surely wrong. I didn't even know this was possible until you mentioned it.

As for iPhoto, it's slow by nature, but not that slow. The app is doing quite a bit of stuff behind the scenes and is an awful memory hog (close it when you're not using it). The new version is a tremendous improvement in speed, but on a G5 with 1GB of RAM, there shouldn't be the issues you're describing.

My vote is that something is wrong, whether hardware or software. Archive and install OS X, xbench it, then get back to us. Make sure your memory is good (it isn't cheap-o third party stuff is it?) and that there aren't errant applications running in the background hogging your memory or CPU cycles. If anything Norton is there, kill it off immediately.

If all else fails, call Apple or take it to a store. They'll get it straightened out.

-Drew

Reading all the posts before advising a newbie to do a complete re-install of OS X might be advisable. It turns out he has FileVault turned on, including his iTunes music. That *might* have something to do with it, don't you think?

And Xbench is a total piece of crap. What kind of numbers do you think he would get with FileVault turned on?

 

[mrgreen4242]

Reading all the posts before advising a newbie to do a complete re-install of OS X might be advisable. It turns out he has FileVault turned on, including his iTunes music. That *might* have something to do with it, don't you think?

And Xbench is a total piece of crap. What kind of numbers do you think he would get with FileVault turned on?

6?

 

[veedubdrew]

I did read the posts, thank you. Archiving and installing is pretty painless, fast, and doesn't screw up any existing settings or data, so I don't think it's an off-the-wall suggestion if all else fails. And FYI, I was authoring a response as the FileVault issue cropped up, so I didn't see it. No need to be rude.

Xbench is indeed crap, but if he's getting a score of 60 or something, it's a good indication that he's not just dissatisfied with the performace of his machine, but that his machine differs substantially from other similar machines. If xbench spits out a 140 or something, then perhaps he's just expecting more than the machine can deliver (although it certainly sounds like something is wrong).

-Drew

Reading all the posts before advising a newbie to do a complete re-install of OS X might be advisable. It turns out he has FileVault turned on, including his iTunes music. That *might* have something to do with it, don't you think?

And Xbench is a total piece of crap. What kind of numbers do you think he would get with FileVault turned on?

 

[daveL]

I did read the posts, thank you. Archiving and installing is pretty painless, fast, and doesn't screw up any existing settings or data, so I don't think it's an off-the-wall suggestion if all else fails. And FYI, I was authoring a response as the FileVault issue cropped up, so I didn't see it. No need to be rude.

Xbench is indeed crap, but if he's getting a score of 60 or something, it's a good indication that he's not just dissatisfied with the performace of his machine, but that his machine differs substantially from other similar machines. If xbench spits out a 140 or something, then perhaps he's just expecting more than the machine can deliver (although it certainly sounds like something is wrong).

-Drew

Fair enough. I didn't mean to be rude. Having been on these boards for a while, there are a lot of folks that don't read before posting, as you probably know. Sorry for jumping to that conclusion.

 

[crap freakboy]

Group Hug..

 

[macquestion99]

I've run xbench. What is the best etiquette for posting the results to this thread?

My overall score was 141.20, vs. the comparison machine's 99.87. That being said, my harddrive-related scores were slightly lower. But that could be because of FileVault read/write slowness (as others have pointed out).

As no one has asked yet (surprisingly): Have you tried to run Xbench (http://www.xbench.com/)on the machine yet? If you run the complete test and post the results to this forum someone might be able confirm whether they are on par with other iMacs of similar specs.

 

[macquestion99]

I wasn't actually aware that I could FileVault a single folder (such as a particular user's Documents folder). It sounds like that is possible? I certainly don't need to lock down the music and the photos...

Is it relatively painless to un-FileVault a given user account, then re-FileVault just a given folder within that user account?

Filevault + Music in lossless format sounds like a likely explanation. Lossless requires a huge amount of storage, which in and of itself is ok, but encrypting/decrypting that huge amount of data on the fly is probably not advisable.

Furthermore, music generally doesn't constitute as "sensitive" data, although movies and pictures could. Take your media out of the vault, or turn the vault off altogether if your Mac is in a secure location and password protected, network security is strong enough that I wouldn't be too worried about remote intruders stealing files, particularly massive lossless audio files.

 

[daveL]

I wasn't actually aware that I could FileVault a single folder (such as a particular user's Documents folder). It sounds like that is possible? I certainly don't need to lock down the music and the photos...

Is it relatively painless to un-FileVault a given user account, then re-FileVault just a given folder within that user account?

I haven't used FileVault but from what I'm reading, it's all of your Home directory or nothing. I'm sure someone will correct me, if I'm wrong. One way to handle this would be to have a "sensitive" user account and a "normal" user account. Use FileVault on the "sensitive" user's Home folder and not on the "normal" user's Home folder. This might sound a bit awkward, but if you use Fast User Switching, you can move from the "sensitive" user to the "normal" user very easily, without logging out of either user or losing your work context. Fast User Switching is enabled in the Accounts Preference.

Edit: You'd turn FileVault off on your current user account, create the "sensitive" user account, copy your sensitive stuff to the new user and turn FileVault on for the new "sensitive" user.

 

[altair]

Any chance your microwave is running when you get AirTunes to skip?

Ive noticed it makes mine screw up, and the microwave is 20 feet away from the Airport Express.

Ive been meaning to change the channel on my wireless router, to see if the microwave doesnt effect it, but havent gotten around to it.

GL with your problems.

EDIT: Oh and has anyone tried turning off FileVault recently? When it first came out i turned it on and decided i didnt have anything i needed encrypted, so turned it off and it FUBARD all my preference files.

Anyway, hope they fixed that

 

[razorme]

Just curious - if you go to the apple menu (upper left) and select "About This Mac", does it show 1GB of RAM? Your machine would also act that way if it had a lot less RAM and had to page often - perhaps one of the sticks is loose?

Macquestion99, did you check this question out?

 

[Mechcozmo]

EDIT: Oh and has anyone tried turning off FileVault recently? When it first came out i turned it on and decided i didnt have anything i needed encrypted, so turned it off and it FUBARD all my preference files.

iNever turned it on. Few people can use a Mac.. hehehehehehe.... its so easy too.....


Here is what you should do: (until it gets better)
1. Turn off FileVault (or do the two user account suggestion)
2. Repair Permissions
2a. Read this linkety and find the section that has to deal with the Stickies/FAQs. Read up on the Repairing Permissions, FSCK, etc.
3. Run the hardware test CD
4. Call Apple

 

[macquestion99]

I did. It says 1 GB DDR SDRAM (which I had installed by Apple as part of the original configuration).

Macquestion99, did you check this question out?

 

[macquestion99]

I actually did discover that tonight (as I mention in an earlier post). But it is separate from my iTunes skipping problem (or slow iPhoto problem). The microwave actually knocks out AirTunes throughout the entire microwave cycle (as opposed to a 1-2 second skip). So, for a given Lean Pocket Ultra (Supreme Pizza flavor), we are talking about 1 minute 30 seconds of no music. And the Lean Pocket Ultra wasn't even that great.

Any chance your microwave is running when you get AirTunes to skip?

 

[Rolerboy]

File vault

I would disable filevault. it is encrypting everything which takes longer to read and write and process.

I have a DP 867 MHz G4, I hav over 1 GB of slow ram (compared to G5) and I don't have any of the problems you are describing.
FOr sure, I would verify and repair permissions using disc utility.

and call apple tech support, it does sound like a hardware/ issue. JOBS did the keynote on the imac so I am sure the machine is capable of handling what you are trying to do.

Also, check the apple discussion forums under itunes and imac G5

 

[dotdotdot]

I actually did discover that tonight (as I mention in an earlier post). But it is separate from my iTunes skipping problem (or slow iPhoto problem). The microwave actually knocks out AirTunes throughout the entire microwave cycle (as opposed to a 1-2 second skip). So, for a given Lean Pocket Ultra (Supreme Pizza flavor), we are talking about 1 minute 30 seconds of no music. And the Lean Pocket Ultra wasn't even that great.

LOL!

Windows help here - might work on apples...

Did you try defragging it after you put all your stuff on the iMac?

 

[Ringo]

hello I got a iMac G5 and i dont get any of those problem. I ran some xbench and took the "average" one to compare it with yours.
As you can see i got "only" 512M of memory and i scored better than you...You should post your detailed result here (file/save as/ in xbench and use text format)

Results 153.59
System Info
Xbench Version 1.1.3
System Version 10.3.7 (7S215)
Physical RAM 512 MB
Model PowerMac8,1
Processor PowerPC G5 @ 1.80 GHz
L1 Cache 64K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 512K @ 1.15 GHz
Bus Frequency 600 MHz
Video Card GeForce FX 5200
Drive Type Maxtor 7Y250M0

CPU Test 154.78

GCD Loop 99.03 3.87 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 174.71 631.83 Mflop/sec
AltiVec Basic 123.68 3.59 Gflop/sec
vecLib FFT 182.69 2.84 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 342.13 13.69 Mops/sec

Thread Test 100.08
Computation 66.97 904.14 Kops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 197.90 2.48 Mlocks/sec, 4 threads

Memory Test 221.29

System 239.09
Allocate 592.91 386.75 Kalloc/sec
Fill 208.34 1658.41 MB/sec
Copy 164.98 824.91 MB/sec

Stream 205.96
Copy 180.30 1318.02 MB/sec [G5]
Scale 179.36 1323.69 MB/sec [G5]
Add 234.37 1499.95 MB/sec [G5]
Triad 247.96 1515.06 MB/sec [G5]

Quartz Graphics Test 200.93
Line 189.36 4.82 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 182.68 12.85 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 196.48 4.53 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 182.43 1.98 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 281.03 4.58 Kchars/sec

OpenGL Graphics Test 174.05
Spinning Squares 174.05 121.80 frames/sec

User Interface Test 233.80
Elements 233.80 75.20 refresh/sec

Disk Test 104.10

Sequential 96.42
Uncached Write 84.10 35.06 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 66.58 27.27 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 150.91 23.89 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 125.81 50.83 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Random 113.12
Uncached Write 118.31 1.77 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 129.74 29.26 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 95.38 0.63 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 114.72 23.61 MB/sec [256K blocks]

 

[Sun Baked]

LOL!

Windows help here - might work on apples...

Did you try defragging it after you put all your stuff on the iMac?

Sort of pointless, since quite a few of the well know defrag tools actually cause more problems than the solve with OS X.

ie, The risk of damage to the drive outweighs the benefits.

However for seperate video/audio volumes who need the slight advantage this gives them when working with a critical project -- it can help, but they also have an external volume that they can wipe and reload as needed.

Plus they usually have it backed up, so the occasional crash in defragging the volume isn't as risky.

 

[bellis1]

Bad mac owner

I take bad care of my imac G5 and this is my xbench. Let me know how it compares because it is a comparative machine with no maintenance but bad maintenance:

Results 113.63
System Info
Xbench Version 1.1.3
System Version 10.3.7 (7S215)
Physical RAM 1024 MB
Model PowerMac8,1
Processor PowerPC G5 @ 1.80 GHz
L1 Cache 64K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 512K @ 1.15 GHz
Bus Frequency 600 MHz
Video Card GeForce FX 5200
Drive Type ST3160023AS
CPU Test 89.09
GCD Loop 57.38 2.24 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 142.27 514.50 Mflop/sec
AltiVec Basic 61.46 1.79 Gflop/sec
vecLib FFT 99.79 1.55 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 186.12 7.45 Mops/sec
Thread Test 67.99
Computation 51.24 691.77 Kops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 101.00 1.27 Mlocks/sec, 4 threads
Memory Test 164.53
System 156.07
Allocate 644.91 420.68 Kalloc/sec
Fill 113.51 903.57 MB/sec
Copy 112.84 564.18 MB/sec
Stream 173.95
Copy 222.94 1629.67 MB/sec [G5]
Scale 121.78 898.73 MB/sec [G5]
Add 145.42 930.70 MB/sec [G5]
Triad 292.32 1786.05 MB/sec [G5]
Quartz Graphics Test 171.88
Line 187.37 4.77 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 129.22 9.09 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 159.47 3.68 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 169.46 1.84 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 260.20 4.24 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 155.29
Spinning Squares 155.29 108.67 frames/sec
User Interface Test 209.12
Elements 209.12 67.26 refresh/sec
Disk Test 79.67
Sequential 69.22
Uncached Write 68.45 28.53 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 50.31 20.60 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 66.97 10.60 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 119.48 48.27 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 93.83
Uncached Write 90.19 1.35 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 89.64 20.22 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 92.86 0.61 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 103.95 21.39 MB/sec [256K blocks]

By the way I have no idea what all this means...

 

[bellis1]

Hey wait a second.

I was kind of just joking about the bad maintenance. But I only got 74% of the guy before me and I have 2x the RAM. I am pretty happy with this machine and my airport streaming doesn't stall although I have some popping speakers. Oh jeez I gotta start taking better care of myself and my baby.

 

[Balin64]

My iMac G5

I had a bench mark score of 153, with the 1.8 17" model. The 20" model, with the faster front side bus should fair better, I would think. I keep my system in pristine shape: although I run two "listening apps" that I think may have affected my score: KeyXing and the Wacom driver, which always run a "daemon" type process in the background. I believe that even though you have lossless tunes and FileVault turned on, the performance is till troubling. I wish I had your Mac in front of me so I could try to tweak it. Download Onyx, a great maintenance program. Also, like others have suggested, aquaint yourself with periodic maintenance, prebinding, and repair permission commands in Terminal. Lastly, consider purchasing a copy of Disk Warrior, and run the hardware test on your RAM, it may be faulty. Good Luck!

 

[mrgreen4242]

I had a bench mark score of 153, with the 1.8 17" model. The 20" model, with the faster front side bus should fair better, I would think. I keep my system in pristine shape: although I run two "listening apps" that I think may have affected my score: KeyXing and the Wacom driver, which always run a "daemon" type process in the background. I believe that even though you have lossless tunes and FileVault turned on, the performance is till troubling. I wish I had your Mac in front of me so I could try to tweak it. Download Onyx, a great maintenance program. Also, like others have suggested, aquaint yourself with periodic maintenance, prebinding, and repair permission commands in Terminal. Lastly, consider purchasing a copy of Disk Warrior, and run the hardware test on your RAM, it may be faulty. Good Luck!

Both 1.8ghz iMacs (the 17" and 20") have the same FSB, and all other specs, sans harddrive size, are the same. The 1.6ghz 17" has a slower FSB (corresponding to the slower cpu clock speed). ALl iMacs and current SP PMs FSB runs at 1/3 of the CPU clock speed... or the CPU runs at 3 times the FSB, depending how you look at it. The DP PMs and original SP PMs FSB runs at 1/2 speed.

Anyways, I'd bet dollars to donuts that bellis1's poor XBench score is due to his system being set on Automatic Power Savings, as opposed to High. The G5 can scale down it's overall power use (and hence heat output) at the loss of performance, and it comes defaulted this way. Change the power management/performance setting to high and rerun XBench, you'll jump up into the 140's+.

Best wishes,
Rob