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Originally posted by AlphaTech
Personally (since art is subjective) I see custom motorcycles are more art then production line cars. When you have just one of an item, it is unique, when there are hundreds of thousands of that exact same item, it is not as unique (not to say it isn't art).

What it all really boils down to, is that art is what you perceive it to be.

Its the same with me and guitars. And the great thing about guitars is that if a guitar was made by a smaller company, it is probably quite unique. Even when a guitar is made by the same person (or people) with the same materials, they can vary widely in tone, feel and will suit some people's style much better than others. I have a couple of guitars that I consider works of art whose beauty and craft I can barely comprehend.

And I couldn't agree more about art being what you perceive it to be.

Matthew
 
Originally posted by AlphaTech
What it all really boils down to, is that art is what you perceive it to be.

Exactly, art is subjective. I put this in another thread a while back, but its appropriate here.

Someone could walk down a beach and see a washed up piece of wood, take it home, clean it up, maybe polyurethane it and place it on the mantle - ART.

Another person could walk by a simillar piece and think, what a great bit of firewood.

But that gets away from the topic. I don't think we're really worried about what art is, but at what level is it defined. As long as someone picks it up and calls it ART, it is. But until then its just a piece of wood. Put it in context, then you make something of it.

Fine art on the other hand will always be ART. Even if you don't like it, you'll still admit its art. Take a walk through an art museum and you see what I mean.
 
original question?

I agree that it lies in the eye of the beholder.
But going back to the original thread,
I remember reading a magazine called
"mac art magazine" or something.
It was mad by a swedish bloke called
Anders F. Rönnblom, who btw is an
excellent blues-guitarist!
He created Art with a mac and photoshop
as his tools. Actually he made the entire
magazine (all typesetting and all) in
photoshop. And this was early-mid 90´s!
But is it Fine art? I don´t think so.
This is recent work:
http://www.gingkopress.com/_zine/metalh/1mh1.htm
 
freedom....

but if he put it in a certain fine art context then it is fine art...right? or is it unsuccesful fine art? if so it is still fine art. if not then what makes some art ...."fine" and some not. whats the objective rule here? is there or isnt there an object rule for some art being "fine"?
 
art is art whatever tools are used

this distinction between whether computer generated art is "fine" or not has thankfully disintegrated for the most part. it's now just accepted as yet another tool to produce content.

now what comes up is what is defined as computer art as it's own genre. what makes it a medium that allows a form of expression that cannot be achieved in any other way.

well, 3D modeling/animation is a form of sculpture that has the ability to defy all laws of physics. so if you are using it to create shapes/motion/topologies that cannot be described in the "real" world then possibly it is a form of art explicit to the digital domain.
electronic music is the other obvious one. the intricacies of electronic music often go beyond what the human body could possibly perform. whether or not the music produced in this fashion is a step forward for musical expression is still in question :)

this is a complex subject and it's really cool someone brought it up on this forum... not always just tech rumors and the like ;)
 
Re: art is art whatever tools are used

Originally posted by twek
this distinction between whether computer generated art is "fine" or not has thankfully disintegrated for the most part. it's now just accepted as yet another tool to produce content.

Bravo. I was hoping someone would bring this up. I look at computers to be a new medium for creation just as watercolor, oil paint or ink was at some point in history a new medium. People can do some incredible things with computers.

And look at the range. Artists working for movie studios have produced some of the most realistic images ever brought to the human outside...well...real life. And others are creating synthetic landscapes and pure visual splendor without constraining themselves to realistic form whatsoever.

It really is pretty cool what can be accomplished with these machines today.

Matthew
 
I'm catching back up on this thread this morning...and it seems that u guys have lots of valid points. Still, though, I feel the graphic design market has become flooded with lots of crap...and there's an obvious distinction between someone who knows what they are doing and someone who shouldn't be allowed to touch a computer.

Art is a means of expression & communication. Often I find that people who cannot express themselves vocally can be more successful doing it visually. Graphic design, however, is more of a technical craft. In most cases, commercial art & graphic design isn't an expression of one's thoughts or feelings...but rather a client's spec sheet. This is why I hold my signature, "don't fall in love with your first idea." Too many times I've become attached to an idea that looked incredible...only to have a client completely tear it apart because it's "not what I was thinking." ugh... :rolleyes:

Has the answer really been found here yet? maybe we should conduct a poll to get a more direct approach to it?
 
Originally posted by eyelikeart
I'm catching back up on this thread this morning...and it seems that u guys have lots of valid points. Still, though, I feel the graphic design market has become flooded with lots of crap...and there's an obvious distinction between someone who knows what they are doing and someone who shouldn't be allowed to touch a computer.

hey eye, you will hit 2,000 before i can hit 1,200...ps thnx for offer for help ;-)

i bet when the french impressionists first came out, many of the critics thought they should not be allowed around paint brushes

just of a few years ago, there were techie oriented computer people and those who did not use the computer, but now there is this whole breed of non techie, non geek computer users, and some of them are artists who could care less about a cpu, processor, and hard drive, but simply want to create a work of art with the computer as their medium that given day instead of pen and ink, charcoal, or oil paints.
 
Originally posted by jefhatfield
artists who could care less about a cpu, processor, and hard drive, but simply want to create a work of art with the computer as their medium that given day instead of pen and ink, charcoal, or oil paints.

Have you ever used Painter, its amazing what you can do, especially with a tablet. You can do oil, water color, pen, ink, etc., select the paper type to get rough effects if you're using charcoal, blend oils and water color and a whole host of things. And the best thing about it, the undo button....:D
 
Originally posted by eyelikeart
Has the answer really been found here yet? maybe we should conduct a poll to get a more direct approach to it?

Go ahead and do it. It would be interesting to see what people here think. But I don't know if you'd get any definitive answers. Its all so subjective a topic.
 
re: 2000 & polls

jef...
no prob for the offer ;) I suppose I'll hit the 2000 mark in the next couple weeks...I'll do a dance for u all...he he he...

duke...
when I first got into Macs...they were teaching us Painter...damn that was long ago.... :rolleyes:
a poll may be a good idea....jeff?
 
Re: re: 2000 & polls

Originally posted by eyelikeart

a poll may be a good idea

Do a good job on the answer selections, though. I've seen a few that don't provide good options and it ruins the pole. Provide a 'all of the above', 'i don't care', or 'what is art anyway' type of option.
 
Hey dukestreet

I use Painter..... it's pretty amazing...... I use it alot with DV as you can import the footage raw, abit like Commotion......
 
Re: I want Atmosphere.

Originally posted by mischief
I want Adobe Atmosphere goddammit. It's been a year.:mad: :p

Yeah! What's up with Adobe on this? Why is VRML having such a problem on the mac? Its a neat little app with huge potential - sort of like the 3DOS. Once it all comes together it will be great, but meanwhile we're out of luck.:mad:
 
Art is art only to those that view it as art. I personally have a few production cels from various animated films/catoons. All signed. They are art. Its for commercial use, but the beauty is there and I see them as art.

Also, I was wondering if anyone knows an good sites that post FREE textures that I can use for texture mapping for my final 3D animation that's due in 2 weeks!!! I have so much to do and the textures are hard...Its an egyptian tomb. I'm almost done modeling/animating. I've started to texture and light, but it takes a while...and I need almost a week to render since I cant just start it and let it go until it finishes...other people need to render as well.

Gracias
 
Originally posted by teabgs

Also, I was wondering if anyone knows an good sites that post FREE textures that I can use for texture mapping for my final 3D animation that's due in 2 weeks!!!

Ah, the textures are the tough one sometimes, eh? I use a couple now and again, you can take a look at

http://www.3dsite.com in the links section.

But someone posted a new site with a whole bunch of resources. I haven't had a chance to check it all out, but it looked really good.

http://www.clubmedia.com/

One thing you might want to do is 'adjust' some of the images a little, give them a custom feel, it always looks better. Also if you have access to a digital camera that works even better. Good luck.
 
After a year of being in "lurk mode" I thought I'd slip in a some comments on this one.

I have a BA degree in Fine Art & photography and have been an illustrator for 17+ yrs. In recent years, I seem to be spending more time behind my Mac then the drawing board (webdesign, DTP, etc..).

First, to define a few terms....
I never use the word "artist" to describe myself or my title. I believe "artist" is a title someone else needs to give you. An "artist" is simply someone who has, over the years of perfecting and refining, elevated his particular skill to that of an art. So, a farmer can be an artist if they excell at what they do and strive to a higher level of excellence in their field.
I guess you could then say that the farmer is out-standing in his field (had to get that in there... hehe)

creativity .... is simply "decision making". Anyone who must decide between choice A or B is using creativity in his job. Creativity is not something limited to those involved in the "arts". Perhaps a toll booth operator may be the one exception to the rule. :) <BG>
-------------------
Here's a quote from an article that I found interesting and touches on some of the questions here about designers vrs. fine artists vrs. etc......:
It's crucial to remember that design is not art. It's not about personal expression running amok. Design is about solutions to real problems. Unlike fine artist who follow their own whims, designers do not solve their own problems, but rather the problems of the job at hand. They should be concerned with getting results like selling products, filling auditoriums, identifying companies and presenting information understandably. Design must grow out of an awareness of the assighnment's problems and goals.
-------------------
fine art....computer art...etc.
I still use my pens, brushes, etc. and I make use of several computer programs. I have no doubt in my mind that the computer will never completely replace "traditional" tools for illustration.
One reason...
People pay for imperfection. What would someone pay more for - a handmade plate or a "perfect" one made by a machine, a handsewn rug or a machine sewn one?
The reason for this is that humans are imperfect and having this element of imperfection in one's artwork breathes "life" into in and gives a personal human element to it. I'm not talking about "mistakes" or doing shoddy work but rather human imprefection shining through and having people relate to it. I've tried the best "natural media" software on the market and a computer can NOT create this natural human element - impressive as the 3D brush strokes may look with the preasure sensitive Wacom tablet. Don't get me wrong....I think these programs are GREAT and I am itching to try the new Mac OSX Photoshop 7 with the addition of unlimited pressure sensitive natural brushes!! :eek:

Whenever I produce artwork in the computer, I always make a point to have at least one stage of the process done by hand. For example, if I wanted to drop in colour for a b/w line drawing, I would do the drawing by hand and scan it in, then manipulate it in the computer and add the colour in photoshop. Or, for a colour pencil effect in a photo, instead of using a Photoshop art filter, I would hand draw some colourpencil effects over the photo (on tracing paper) and then scan it in and superimpose it over/under the photo (setting the photograph layer at around 60%). I even made some homemade papers (at home in the blender using feathers, flowers, etc.!) and scanned them in for backgrounds to a brochure. Went quick and was fun. ...and I found out that a computer doesn't always do every graphic job faster than by hand. It all depends...

My Mac (and painting software) is only a tool, no different than a pencil or brush. It is another tool in my bag and no one tool is the best choice for every job. There were some good points in this thread on how some students buy a fancy computer program and think that those cool effects will do the trick. The same happens with fine or graphic artists who think that the use of colour can cover a multitude of weaknesses (weak composition, drawing skills, etc.). Notice how the latest design trends tend to run parallel with the new Photoshop tools and eventually things start to look "sameish".

Another reason, I will never give up my traditional tools is that the computer doesn't appeal to my sense of smell and touch. What would I do without my wet watercolour paper smelling like a dog coming in out of the rain.:p, the smell of oil of lavendar spike, or the buttery feel of my Blockx oil paints. Also, there is less frustration with my traditional tools over my computer software/hardware ... "Ahhh, I just spent $25 on that new kolinsky sable brush and they just came out with an upgrade - kolinsky sable "version 1.5 for OSX"!" It's a comfort knowing that my investment will not become outdated for at least another 150 yrs.. <g>

Well, there's my 2 cents ... actually looking at how much I ended up typing it may be more like $1.89.

Now let me get my hands on that new Photoshop 7.0!!
 
there is no art

art is just a word.

there is no fine art.

there is no commercial art.

the word itself implies a qualitative judgement that cannot be proven.

so any painting is art.

all music is art.

all driftwood is art.

all dog-poop is art.

anything and everything is art.

so what good is the word?:)
 
sadly I dot have a digital camera. Also, I will alter any texture I can find...I just need them to use to alter. I got a few books from the library and scanned pictures in but most textures arent good for this or are the same as in every other book.

thanks for the links though...
 
Re: re: 2000 & polls

Originally posted by eyelikeart
jef...
no prob for the offer ;) I suppose I'll hit the 2000 mark in the next couple weeks...I'll do a dance for u all...he he he...

duke...
when I first got into Macs...they were teaching us Painter...damn that was long ago.... :rolleyes:
a poll may be a good idea....jeff?

painter, believe it or not, i have never even seen what the program looks like...photoshop, illustrator, pagemaker...yes, but painter? no.

and i know painter should be in everyone's collection so i have heard, but i would also like bryce since a friend of mine turned me onto it...i would like to try and use my right brain more since i have been left brained (analytical) for so long now , so it might be fun

i might take that famous techie to artist evolution i have seen so many computer people do, so i am not going to plan it...art will just happen to me, hopefully

as for art having no definition or anything being art, history will tell you art and artists once considered something else will always go into the proper art world and be accepted eventually
 
btw...who is the one who was an artist but is a techie now?

now that is fascinating to me
 
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