iPod Are Shuffles really slow at uploading?

wowoah

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 16, 2003
187
0
Berkeley, CA
Hi everyone,

I just got a new iPod Shuffle and plugged it into my USB 2.0 slot to Autofill and it looks like it's taking an incredible amount of time to upload, something like 15 minutes for only 1GB. My iPod never took about that long to fill up the full 10GB. Isn't USB 2.0 supposed to be comparable to FireWire in speed? Does this mean either my USB 2.0 or my Shuffle is busted?
 

joecool85

macrumors 65816
Mar 9, 2005
1,355
1
Maine
USB 2 is roughly the same as FW400. My shuffle is slow because I have a rev a 12" pb (867mhz G4, USB 1.1) and the USB 1.1 kills it :-(
 

Langly

macrumors newbie
Apr 4, 2005
20
0
Cumbria, England
I think it depends on what file format you've got your music library in on your Mac (MP3, AIFF etc) and whether you set your iTunes prefs to convert files to AAC format for your iPod. If so, part of the time is taken with converting the files over before it copies them.

My Shuffle seems to take ages sometimes. I usually leave it copying and go do something else. It gives the battery time to charge too :)
 

Chundles

macrumors G4
Jul 4, 2005
11,979
428
Nope, all wrong.

Shuffles are slow loading cause the speed at which the flash memory can load songs is way, waay slower than USB 2.0.
 

Langly

macrumors newbie
Apr 4, 2005
20
0
Cumbria, England
Excuse me, but I think you'll find that the information I gave, and Joecool85's contribution on USB/Firewire data transfer rates are both correct, and are both relevant factors. Your point may also be relevant, but there's no need to be so fecking rude about other posters' submissions.
 

26139

Suspended
Dec 27, 2003
4,315
373
Chundle is mostly right...

USB 2.0 is only comparable to firewire 400 in terms of BURSTS of speed, not sustained speed.
Firewire maintains a much higher transfer rate than USB 2.0 and flash drives are not as fast as regular hard drives.
So...to answer the poster's original question, no, nothing is wrong with your shuffle. That's just the downside of using USB 2.0 to transfer data (and another reason to live firewire external drives).
 

26139

Suspended
Dec 27, 2003
4,315
373
Nope...

Langly said:
Excuse me, but I think you'll find that the information I gave, and Joecool85's contribution on USB/Firewire data transfer rates are both correct, and are both relevant factors. Your point may also be relevant, but there's no need to be so fecking rude about other posters' submissions.
Sorry, man....Joecool85 was right about his USB 1.1 problem, but the bottleneck is in the flash memory and the sustained speed capabilities of USB2.0.
Don't get all twisted out of shape, man. He wasn't being rude.
 

Langly

macrumors newbie
Apr 4, 2005
20
0
Cumbria, England
I think i've been twisted out of shape for far too long already...

Given that Mr Wowoah hasn't given any details of his 'pooter specs and setup, I was just considering some of the many possible variables in his suspected problem and trying to give some positive suggestions. Unlike Mr Chundles, who, whilst he may not have meant to be rude, certainly sounded like it, at least to my delicate English sensibilities...
 

26139

Suspended
Dec 27, 2003
4,315
373
Hahahaha...

Langly said:
I think i've been twisted out of shape for far too long already...

Given that Mr Wowoah hasn't given any details of his 'pooter specs and setup, I was just considering some of the many possible variables in his suspected problem and trying to give some positive suggestions. Unlike Mr Chundles, who, whilst he may not have meant to be rude, certainly sounded like it, at least to my delicate English sensibilities...
I apologize, I failed to take into account your English sensitive side. We Americans are too jaded to be insulted by minor rudeness (which is not to say that it's a good thing).
You know...if we combined ALL of our answers we would have answered his questions...
 

GoCubsGo

macrumors Nehalem
Feb 19, 2005
35,741
147
I've loaded 128, 192, and 320 kpbs mp3s and I can load 1/2 my shuffle (512mb) in under a minute.
 

MarkCollette

macrumors 68000
Mar 6, 2003
1,556
33
Toronto, Canada
Let's just do some math.

Firewire/USB 2.0 would give approximately 400 mbit/sec, which for 1 GB would take around 21 seconds.

USB 1.1 would give 12 mbit/sec, which for 1 GB would take around 683 seconds, or 11 minutes and 23 seconds.

Now, those are theoretical limits, which could be less in reality due to cabling, USB stack in the operating system, chipsets, etc.

Since wowoah reported approximately 15 minutes, we can't actually tell if it's just a kindof crappy USB 1.1 connection, or if the flash write speed is the limiting factor. If wowoah verified if the computer did in fact use USB 2.0, then we would know it was the flash.

So, at this present time, people shouldn't be pissy at each other. :p
 

swy32x

macrumors regular
Mar 20, 2005
170
0
You have probably set the iPod shuffle options to convert all songs to 128AAC when syncing across to fit onto the shuffle.

This slows the process right down.

Try unticking that option and see how it goes.
 

26139

Suspended
Dec 27, 2003
4,315
373
transfer rates...

Listen, I know the limits to firewire and usb 2.0 transfer rates are theoretical, but firewire is faster for sustained data transfer EVERY TIME. USB 2.0 might start quicker, but firewire keeps a faster speed.
That's why usb is better for input devices like keyboards, mice and such.
Try using a uSB 2.0 hard drive and a firewire hard drive and see how long it takes to transfer a bunch of files.
 

wowoah

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jul 16, 2003
187
0
Berkeley, CA
MarkCollette said:
Since wowoah reported approximately 15 minutes, we can't actually tell if it's just a kindof crappy USB 1.1 connection, or if the flash write speed is the limiting factor. If wowoah verified if the computer did in fact use USB 2.0, then we would know it was the flash.
That's exactly the math I did. My PowerBook is literally a brand-new PowerBook 15" so it should definitely have USB 2.0. Maybe I should give AppleCare a call.

Thanks everyone!
 

Langly

macrumors newbie
Apr 4, 2005
20
0
Cumbria, England
MarkCollette said:
So, at this present time, people shouldn't be pissy at each other. :p
:eek: Another example of Brits and Americans speaking the same language, but using it to say different things. If I started pissing at people over here, I really would be in trouble! ;)

How about we all get together with our Macs and our Shuffles, set them all off uploading, and have a nice cup of tea whilst we wait? :D

We could even try this: http://www.wrightthisway.com/Articles/000154.html
 

HiRez

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2004
5,886
1,878
Western US
MarkCollette said:
Since wowoah reported approximately 15 minutes, we can't actually tell if it's just a kindof crappy USB 1.1 connection, or if the flash write speed is the limiting factor. If wowoah verified if the computer did in fact use USB 2.0, then we would know it was the flash.
It is the flash memory, my Shuffle is brutally slow on both my PowerBook G4 and my dual G5 PowerMac, both reading and writing. For what I use it for, it's fine, but as others have tried to say, the speeds of FireWire vs. USB 2.0 are irrelevant here: the Shuffle could not write any faster if it had a fibrechannel card attached. Some other companies have managed to make high-end keychain flash drives with much higher speeds (SanDisk Extreme III, etc.), but they're still expensive (at least the last time I checked). But those are specialy items, I consider flash drive capability a "bonus" of the Shuffle, not really a primary consideration, and for music, who cares if it takes 5 minutes or 15 to fill up? Think ahead and do something else while it works instead of watching it! I'd say 15 minutes is about right, mine takes about 15-20 to Autofill (1 GB Shuffle, dual 2.0 G5).
 

Langly

macrumors newbie
Apr 4, 2005
20
0
Cumbria, England
MarkCollette said:
But, I'm Canadian ;)
:eek: Oops, Sorry Mark. No excuses on that one. Er... um.... would you like a cup of tea?

*runs off for a bout of self-flagellation with a USB cable*

...

*puts down cable* If I changed it to read 'Brits and Colonials', would that cause more, or less offence? ;)

*picks up cable again in anticipation*
 
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