Are Unlocked iPhones Getting Bricked? At Least Some.

[ncbill]

There is no requirement to sign a contract at your local Apple store (hand over 5 Benjamins, get your change, and walk out).

There is also no need to activate the iPhone with an AT&T plan prior to unlocking it to work with another cellular provider.

No contractual relationship exists between the purchaser of an iPhone and AT&T, until the purchaser chooses to activate it on a 2-year plan with AT&T.

License agreements are a form of contract and a contract actually spells out the "rules" of how two or more parties will act in commerce."

Dave

 

[JD914]

Hopefully the hackers will get tired of the game and move back to hacking MS and we can all enjoy our iPhones in peace.

Not gonna happen. Hopefully the hackers will be more determined to overcome this minor inconvenience and come back stronger with easier activation hacks and better 3rd party apps. Their here and their not going anywhere.

 

[PDE]

Its always interesting to see how many people imagine and assume that they have legal rights to justify any action they take. Rarely, is there actually a truly legal right to support their position. Just because your assume it does not make it so.

Most likely, if this "Cat and Mouse" game continues much longer, you will see the attorneys of Apple and ATT squash any of the mice it can find. They won't put up with this for long. They are now in the "we will make it much harder for them and see what happens" stage. Next will come a few high visibility massive lawsuits which will scare off just about anyone that facilitates unlocking, making our own ring tones or allowing you to install non-authorized applications. Most folks do not have the deep pockets to take on Apple and ATT and will cease and decist after receiving nothing more than a very stongly worded letter.

This too will pass,

Dave

Only thing is: Apple's lawyers have little jurisdiction outside the U.S., and especially not in countries where its practices are not legal. This will not stop and the more APple tries to stop it, the more people will try to fight back. It's human nature and Apple should know better.

 

[megfilmworks]

Not gonna happen. Hopefully the hackers will be more determined to overcome this minor inconvenience and come back stronger with easier activation hacks and better 3rd party apps. Their here and their not going anywhere.

That's too bad! Those 3rd party apps just slow up your phone and limit all of us to software updates aimed at the hackers. What a waste!!

 

[JD914]

That's too bad! Those 3rd party apps just slow up your phone and limit all of us to software updates aimed at the hackers. What a waste!!

Is that what happened to your phone when you modified it? The apps slowed down your phone? Whats there to complain about? Now you have an I tunes wifi store!

 

[megfilmworks]

Is that what happened to your phone when you modified it? The apps slowed down your phone? Whats there to complain about? Now you have an I tunes wifi store!

In my business I am surrounded by professional geeks. They all modded their iPhones and all most everyone, including me, gave up because of the piss poor performance penalties. Lock up your iPhone, dump the hacks and you will remember just how clean and fast it was before you hacked it. My iPhone works great now. I don't want hackers or foreign bureaucrats designing my software, let them stick to messing up their own world.

 

[ncbill]

Not necessarily.

What most people have missed so far is that individual states (if Apple has a point of presence) have jurisdiction to modify the terms of a manufacturer's warranty, and have done so.

In many states, if your new car is a lemon, the manufacturer has a limited number of attempts to fix the problems before they must buy it back from you, or trade it for another of the same model.

That's why you see, at the end of warranty statements, "This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state."

A state agency can decide all on its own that merely unlocking the iPhone does not allow Apple to void the warranty.

Or that if a easy solution to "unbricking" an iPhone you've unlocked does exist (e.g., a simple reflash at the Genius bar), that Apple must offer that service (the state can cap the price of that service as well)

Of course, given Apple's statements, it seems clear Apple doesn't think bricked phones can be fixed, period.

If you choose to activate the phone via some other method, then you avoid entering into that particular contract--With the effect of voiding your warranty.

 

[Analog Kid]

With all due respects, Dave, your comments are simply absurd at best and comical at least.

iPhone owners can do whatever they want with their device as they see fit; they've paid for the item and the customers have the final say in how it is utilized.

...

If Apple doesn't like the notion of customers using their purchased Apple products in their own prerogatives, then that is just too bad for Apple.

While it's tempting to take the Holy View that folks have brought this upon themselves, but the raw, unabashed truth is that Apple has created this situation and should own up to offering a solution that pleases all parties.

First, ease up on the double space. My posts are long too, but I've got the courtesy to fill them with blather, not whitespace.
Apple hasn't created any situation. They've created a mobile phone. People disregarding Apples usage guidelines, subverting the update mechanism, reverse engineering the deepest levels of firmware, making changes to code they don't control, ignoring warnings from the company that updating might be bad, and then whining when their house of cards collapses are creating this situation.

Having said that, the reason this whole iPhone thing seems to have to have gone so far is because you are reading an iPhone forum. Politics are best discussed elsewhere.

 

[daveporter]

A lot of hackers are posting that they have legal rights. The only legal right they have is not to be arrested. That is the sole right they retain.
Apple owns the software and if the software is corrupted by the end user then they still have the hardware they bought. i.e. a brick.

Correct!

Many folks here do not understand the difference between a "law" and a "legal obligation" both of which are handled by the courts...in one case a criminal court and in the other a civil court.

However, I give up trying to tell them the how they are both related to enforcing "the law."

Your turn to try. ;-)

Dave

 

[mklos]

By not releasing an unlocked iPhone in the first lace, as probably everyone except AT&T's board of directors would have liked.

That one decision caused a huge split in Apple's customer base, which has lead to the same opinion-dominated discussions we see over and over again on MacRumors (like the one in this thread that I've just contributed to) and, in turn, lead to Apple being forced to release locked phones in other countries (for fear that unlocked phones would make their way back into the States) and - as a final insult to loyal Apple customers who've salivated over this device and were ready to spend their hard earned money on it - has likely lead to it not being released *AT ALL* in countries that have the good sense to not allow companies to wield the kind of anticompetitive muscle that Apple is now flexing.

That's how.

If you don't like Apple's policies, then don't buy the iPhone! Plain and simple!

Everyone was warned ahead of time and yet they still think they've been wronged some how.

Anyone's iPhone that has been bricked doesn't deserve to get a new one and most likely will not. I'm sure a group of idiots will organize a class-action lawsuit over this.

 

[daveporter]

There is no requirement to sign a contract at your local Apple store (hand over 5 Benjamins, get your change, and walk out).

There is also no need to activate the iPhone with an AT&T plan prior to unlocking it to work with another cellular provider.

No contractual relationship exists between the purchaser of an iPhone and AT&T, until the purchaser chooses to activate it on a 2-year plan with AT&T.

That is rubbish.

You must activate your iPhone through iTunes (and OK the agreement) prior to gaining full use of your iPhone. I you choose to go around the proper activation process for the phone...you loose don't you?

Dave

 

[briand05]

How can a device by "bricked" by a software modification? One way or another I believe that any of the errors on the unlocked phones will be easily fixable, it's a pure software problem that can be resolved.

 

[briand05]

That is rubbish.

You must activate your iPhone through iTunes (and OK the agreement) prior to gaining full use of your iPhone. I you choose to go around the proper activation process for the phone...you loose don't you?

Dave

It is your phone, you paid for it and you can do whatever you want with it. Stop shilling.

 

[daveporter]

It is your phone, you paid for it and you can do whatever you want with it. Stop shilling.

No so. You agreed to certain conditions when you purchased the phone and now you have to live with them.

The reality speaks for itself...those that broke the agreement lost. Now they have no iPhone, just a nice looking brick.

So, I guess you can't just do with it what you want..in fact you can't do anything with it now.

Dave

 

[daveporter]

i'm still hoping daveporter might help me out with these questions.

Please go to the Apple web site and take a look at the requirements. Its all there for you to see. Try here first:

http://www.apple.com/iphone/questionsandanswers.html

At the bottom right of the page it says:

Can I “unlock” iPhone and use it with another wireless carrier?
AT&T is the exclusive wireless carrier for iPhone in the United States. If you currently use another wireless carrier, you can choose to transfer your number when you activate your AT&T account.

I don't think they could make it more clear.

The iPhone is a great product. If the features appeal to you and your willing to abide by the agreements and conditions, you will love it.

If not, buy a Nokia or some other brand that gives your what ever features you want that the iPhone does not.

Dave

 

[briand05]

No so. You agreed to certain conditions when you purchased the phone and now you have to live with them.

The reality speaks for itself...those that broke the agreement lost. Now they have no iPhone, just a nice looking brick.

So, I guess you can't just do with it what you want..in fact you can't do anything with it now.

Dave

It's just a software issue, which will be fixed. As I said it's impossible to "brick" a device with a software hack alone.

 

[sananda]

Please go to the Apple web site and take a look at the requirements. Its all there for you to see. Try here first:

http://www.apple.com/iphone/questionsandanswers.html

The iPhone is a great product. If the features appeal to you and your willing to abide by the agreements and conditions, you will love it.

If not, buy a Nokia or some other brand that gives your what ever features you want that the iPhone does not.

Dave

i have been to the website. i might have missed something but i can't see anything along the lines of you must enter "into a multi-payment contract with Apple and ATT when....(you)...CHOSE to by an iPhone". i see you must have a two year contract to activate the phone but i don't see any stipulation that must enter into a contract with at&t. these are not the same thing. if you are correct, and you may be, then if i buy an iphone and take it home and place it on a shelf for two years unused, at&t would still be entitled to demand $1,439.76 from me. so i don't really follow your logic and don't see any support for it on the website.

the other thing i was asking you about was the license agreement. because i think you were saying that the license agreement says you can't unlock the phone. i can't find that license agreement of the website and but you seem to be familiar with it, so i was hoping you might tell me what it says about unlocking (and also whether it says you must take at&t service).

 

[biggerbearbrian]

Its always interesting to see how many people imagine and assume that they have legal rights to justify any action they take. Rarely, is there actually a truly legal right to support their position. Just because your assume it does not make it so.

Most likely, if this "Cat and Mouse" game continues much longer, you will see the attorneys of Apple and ATT squash any of the mice it can find. They won't put up with this for long. They are now in the "we will make it much harder for them and see what happens" stage. Next will come a few high visibility massive lawsuits which will scare off just about anyone that facilitates unlocking, making our own ring tones or allowing you to install non-authorized applications. Most folks do not have the deep pockets to take on Apple and ATT and will cease and decist after receiving nothing more than a very stongly worded letter.

This too will pass,

Dave

Well, this is my last response to you. It is legal to unlock, Apple and ATT can fight it, but its legal now. I wonder why you want so much lockdown, its kind of weird. You're argument's too shall pass...

 

[sananda]

Please go to the Apple web site and take a look at the requirements. Its all there for you to see. Try here first:

http://www.apple.com/iphone/questionsandanswers.html

At the bottom right of the page it says:

Can I “unlock” iPhone and use it with another wireless carrier?
AT&T is the exclusive wireless carrier for iPhone in the United States. If you currently use another wireless carrier, you can choose to transfer your number when you activate your AT&T account.

I don't think they could make it more clear.


Dave

ah..you edited your post with this reference after i replied so i didn't see it. the thing is that doesn't say you can't unlock the phone. it just says at&t is the exclusive carrier. it couldn't really be less clear.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Well, I'm about to try my luck...

Wish me luck.

From what I can tell from posts on other forums, the problem is when your phone's IMEI doesn't match what Apple has on file. Apparently the unlocking tool sometimes makes your phone's IMEI change. I have just checked, and my phone's IMEI is correct.

My phone is both hacked (Installer.app plus a few apps,) and unlocked (although I am using the original AT&T SIM; I only unlocked because the option was there, and because I will be going to Mexico in a month, and would like to use a local SIM instead of having massive AT&T roaming charges.) I have no problem with re-locking my phone, I can live with just getting an el-cheapo phone in Mexico. But it sounds like as long as the IMEI matches, I don't have to re-lock.

 

[EagerDragon]

Sorry Dave,

As far as I am aware, US Law supercede's Apple's Corporate interest, in this case, even though Apple says you must play by their rules concerning locking (and is within their rights to try to limit iPhone use in this way), those wanting to unlock their phones are working within the realm of legality. This is not an excuse or a rationality, it is the law.

I agree (and think most people who have unlocked their phones would or should) that since unlocking the phone voids the warrantee, those who have done so have to live with the consequences of it and need to live with that. I actually don't have an iPhone, yet, and am still trying to decide whether to unlock it or switch to ATT.

Sorry US Law states that you have the right, if you so desire to unlock your phone. It also allows you to ignore all other rules set forth by manufactorers. However it does not state that you are excepted from a contractual agreement. Take it to court, the phone was a brick when you purchased it, only way to enable in compliance with the agreement was to use itunes and signup for 2 year contract with at&t. If you broke the rules and later ignored the warnings, well you got a brick.

I am building a brick wall outback, im paying $0.10 for each brick.

You have the right to be foolish so long as you make your bed and lay on it.

 

[shadowfax]

ah..you edited your post with this reference after i replied so i didn't see it. the thing is that doesn't say you can't unlock the phone. it just says at&t is the exclusive carrier. it couldn't really be less clear.

That's exactlyy right. That's the striking thing about the iPhone FAQ, is that you really get the feeling they know that they can't tell you you're not allowed to do certain things, so instead they word it in terms of what you "can do," not specifically excluding the thing you're asking to do.

 

[daveporter]

ah..you edited your post with this reference after i replied so i didn't see it. the thing is that doesn't say you can't unlock the phone. it just says at&t is the exclusive carrier. it couldn't really be less clear.

Its very clear to me and it will be to any court that is ever asked the question.

Dave

 

[sananda]

Its very clear to me and it will be to any court that is ever asked the question.

Dave

it's interesting that you should mention a court. because any court asked to interpret that question and answer you mention would immediately note that apple have perfectly purposefully avoided their own question. it simply does not answer the question "can i unlock my phone".

 

[macintologist]

I unlocked my iPhone using the iUnlock method from modmyiphone.com. I have a legit ATT iPhone sim card in my iPhone and I have a proper AT&T account for my iPhone. I have since done an iTunes restore to 1.0.2.

The IMEI number on the back of my iPhone is the exact same listed in the iPhone About menu.

Will the 1.1.1 update brick my iPhone?