are we able to counter centrino?

[jefhatfield]

wintel laptops now have the battery saving centrino processor/chipset and i am seeing them everywhere now

i know apple laptops have very good battery time, but do we need a "centrino" low power type of processor too?

just for a comparison, i bought a pc laptop and and an ibook in the same week in december, 1999 and both listed for $1599 us...the ibook laptop with original battery still gets more time on a single charge, three years and four months later...than the pc laptop did new out of the box

i still read pc laptop reviews that think that three hours on a single charge is great

 

[Foxer]

It's my impression that the Centrino chips only save battery life if you choose not to do anything with the computer. As soon as you put some demand on the chips, the battery will burn pretty much like all the others. Of course it's Intel, so they'll market it well and the average buyer will think, "Oh this is the new thing." They'll beleive it is good beacsue they were told it is good.

Once again, I ask why Apple can't market their strengths. The Switch campaign was good, the ads were nice, but it should have only been one brick in the wall. Apple, you've got all this cash sitting about - spend it on advertising. And tell us why Macs are good, not why PCs are bad. Sell your strengths!

 

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Foxer
It's my impression that the Centrino chips only save battery life if you choose not to do anything with the computer. As soon as you put some demand on the chips, the battery will burn pretty much like all the others. Of course it's Intel, so they'll market it well and the average buyer will think, "Oh this is the new thing." They'll beleive it is good beacsue they were told it is good.

Once again, I ask why Apple can't market their strengths. The Switch campaign was good, the ads were nice, but it should have only been one brick in the wall. Apple, you've got all this cash sitting about - spend it on advertising. And tell us why Macs are good, not why PCs are bad. Sell your strengths!

because apple is an island, they hang onto the cash and play it safe by not spending too much on advertising

the money is there for a rainy day, of which there have been many

the original vision and guts that apple had with the two steves is long gone...i think microsoft took away their fire

instead of computers for everyone like apples once were, now it's just, "computers for the rest of us"

it's sad but it's business and in that realm, microsoft is king...they won the war

at best apple can win a tiny battle here and a tiny battle there but never really catch the world of wintel...and at this point, would we want apple to be that big? (it's a good question but deep down inside i wish apple was the 95% percent market share)

i think steve jobs, business wise, is the reason apple even became a product...but at the same time, sj is also why apple didn't make it in the big leagues...not everyone is able to think as big as bill gates or mike dell

 

[Over Achiever]

Originally posted by Foxer
It's my impression that the Centrino chips only save battery life if you choose not to do anything with the computer. As soon as you put some demand on the chips, the battery will burn pretty much like all the others.

That's not quite true...the centrino ships are very efficient. In fact, they are almost like the AMD processors...get more done more efficiently at a lower clock speed.

I think apple's counter will simply be the 970.

 

[patrick0brien]

-Gents

One counter argument is that the Wireless feature is non-upgradable.

If you want to work on an 802.11a or 802.11g network? You need a PC card, or a new machine.

 

[iJon]

im gonna disagree with you, if we were 95% this would be windowsrumors.com and we would be trying to convert mac users to pc. i think apple goes for quality because they cant afford to lose. if i was microsoft all i would care about is money, not trying to make a superior product, they barely have anyone to compete with. but this may change with linux and apple crawling up their way.

iJon

 

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by iJon
im gonna disagree with you, if we were 95% this would be windowsrumors.com and we would be trying to convert mac users to pc. i think apple goes for quality because they cant afford to lose. if i was microsoft all i would care about is money, not trying to make a superior product, they barely have anyone to compete with. but this may change with linux and apple crawling up their way.

iJon

linux is a real threat since they are free or very low cost w/manual

apple is no threat to microsoft at this point...business wise...maybe apple will win more pretty os awards than microsoft, though

 

[DarkNovaMatter]

I don't know how much the current G4's use in power but even if they don't consume less than the new centrino we will have a good way to offset the centrino. The 970 at 1.2 ghz uses 19 watts (at 130 nm) the lowest I think the centrino can go at its 14 (I think, 24 watts for 1.4 ghz) and thats downclocking the processor to 700 or 800 mhz. Whats even more exciting is that imagine when the 970 will go to 90 nm (for the powerbooks I'm guessing they will go for that instead of the 130 nm version), lower power usage and faster speeds. I am sapposing that since its a 30% shrinking with going from 130nm to 90 nm that power usage will go down about the same percentage (the # of electrons needed to compute is directly related to the size of the chip, die size,etc.- thus the reason why shrinking the die size gives better scaling capabilities and reduced power needs). That means the 1.2 ghz will go from about 19 watts to about 12 or 13 watts. The future of Apple and Powerbooks verry bright with the 970, the other specs I am sure you already know of.

 

[G5orbust]

Centrino, as a product package (chip+ wireless), is very confusing deal fro the average consumer. First of all, they advertise this wireless technology as some new invention Intel cooked up while no one was looking. That was the impression it made on my father, which is unfortunate, because he was buying a computer at the time. The job of trying to convince him that the Centrino wireless crapola wasnt new fell upon me. Infact, this technology, as you all well know, is the 802.11b standard that was just added into the motherboard; an un-upgradeable attachment. Yes, Intel, with its brainwashing ads, did not allow my father the luxury of believeing me and my knowledge that allowed me to see right through the Intel ads. All he could say is that Centrino gets wonderful battery life and that he could go to millions of the adverstised "hot spots" and he was willing to pay more for that. It took me about a week and three individual computer magazine articles to snap him out of it. He seriously thought the wireless stuff was new- even though Apple has been doing it since the first Airport came out in very early 2001 (date may be a little off, but its close). That Centrino campaign is just Intel denying the public full information about their product and not allowing them to know that they are paying 5-10% more for a laptop that has built in wireless, when they could go down to their local PC club and pick up a better 802.11g card for around 100 bucks that would have better range, backwards compatability with 802.11b networks and would have more longevity than the crap Intel is building into their Centrino branded machines. And for better battery life? Buy a second one. If you are gunna do anything with your computer or are going on a long trip and dont plan to jsut play Solitare for 10 hours, a secord, or even third battery is a necessity.

We ended up buying him a nice, $999 Compaq- good enough for what he will do with it.

i just wanted to share my personal Centrino experience and I hope that the 970 will be not only Apple's response to Centrino, but to every other Intel desktop chip as well. And Darknovamtter is right- shrink the die, shrink energy usage, more battery life from the same battery. Its simple and will probably be implemented. Expect double digit laptop battery life hours if Apple shrinks the die. Also, if Apple shrinks the desktop die, that means less energy use, which means less heat given, which means high clock speeds for the same amount of heat the larger die was giving.

 

[firestarter]

Originally posted by G5orbust
Centrino, as a product package (chip+ wireless), is very confusing deal fro the average consumer. First of all, they advertise this wireless technology as some new invention Intel cooked up while no one was looking.

<snip uninformed rant>

Expect double digit laptop battery life hours if Apple shrinks the die. Also, if Apple shrinks the desktop die, that means less energy use, which means less heat given, which means high clock speeds for the same amount of heat the larger die was giving.

- Centrino is Intel's brand name which includes the processor and the low speed Intel WiFi card, usually on a mini-PCI card (like Apple's extreme). You need to ship Intel's card if you want to use the Centrino label, but most manufacturers give you the choice of upgrading. Dell let you swap the 'a' card for an 'a/g' card for nothing, which means they can still use Centrino branding, but give the customer what they want.

- So if you want battery life then carry extra betteries and get over it, but when Apple shrinks feature size then we'll teach 'em... Do you really think Intel will stay on the same feature size? They'll be the next step ahead...

- Interestingly, from the various Pentium M reviews, it seems that a lot of the gain in battery life comes from the chips speed. It gets a job done very quickly at full power, then throttles back while the OS waits for the next user input, so the low power nature is as much from increased smarts as from low power silicon.

 

[jefhatfield]

also the centrino has a different chipset

and mhz for mhz, it is faster than the pentium 4m

i really don't like intel, but i like this chip...it's not about speed, but about battery power and that is the KEY in laptop computing

 

[kaltsasa]

My buddy and I at work were interested in the centrino technology, we were confused as to what it was exactly. AFter much research we came to a few conclusions.

First, to be called a centrino laptop it must have 3 things

1. The Pentium M CPU
2. the new Intel 855 chipset family ("Odem," "Montara-GM")
3. A WLAN adapter in mini-PCI format called Calexico, which is based on the 802.11b/a standard.

Only notebooks with this whole package have Intel's approval to carry the name "Centrino Notebook."

The reviews on the current Centrino laptops look good, until we look at the price.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INT...gCategoryID=smsKC0.NfWoAAAD03nCg86Aj&Dept=cpu

$ 2,199.99 for a sony viao with Centrino technology. For the price of one of these babys, go buy a Powerbook, or go buy a Regular P4M laptop and buy a couple extra batterys with the bling bling you save. The centrino is pure marketing BS from intel.

 

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by kaltsasa
My buddy and I at work were interested in the centrino technology, we were confused as to what it was exactly. AFter much research we came to a few conclusions.

First, to be called a centrino laptop it must have 3 things

1. The Pentium M CPU
2. the new Intel 855 chipset family ("Odem," "Montara-GM")
3. A WLAN adapter in mini-PCI format called Calexico, which is based on the 802.11b/a standard.

Only notebooks with this whole package have Intel's approval to carry the name "Centrino Notebook."

The reviews on the current Centrino laptops look good, until we look at the price.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INT...gCategoryID=smsKC0.NfWoAAAD03nCg86Aj&Dept=cpu

$ 2,199.99 for a sony viao with Centrino technology. For the price of one of these babys, go buy a Powerbook, or go buy a Regular P4M laptop and buy a couple extra batterys with the bling bling you save. The centrino is pure marketing BS from intel.

when i saw some hp and compaq notebooks with centrino, they were about fifteen hundred only

but the equivalent pentium 4 laptop was no more than thriteen hundred

therefore centrino laptops, while clocked slower, are also more expensive...so they better give better battery time to make the product worth it...otherwise, it's really big time bs

 

[G5orbust]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
when i saw some hp and compaq notebooks with centrino, they were about fifteen hundred only

but the equivalent pentium 4 laptop was no more than thriteen hundred

therefore centrino laptops, while clocked slower, are also more expensive...so they better give better battery time to make the product worth it...otherwise, it's really big time bs

yes. The Centrino chips are clocked much lower and are more expensive than their P4-M counterparts. But, in return, as you said, battery life is increaed dramatically. But, that battery life comes at a great performance loss. Say, you wanted to finish your novel you are writing while on a plane to Hong Kong from Los Angeles. Then you could get that stupendious battery life because you would be minimally taxing the system. On the other hand, if you wanted to do something like watch a DVD movie on battery power, it would perform like every other laptop- because regardless of waht anyone says, they still havent minimized the power usage of the disk drive.

While the Centrinos are faster (performance wise) than similarly or even higher clocked mobile Pentium 4's, most people dont understand that kind of thing- they assume higher clock speed= better performance, hands down. So, Intel just had to add some extra perks, like you said, to get people to buy.

 

[Gus]

AirPort has been around longer than since 2001, try 1998. Officially in all the products by late 1999, the iBook was the first to get it built in. Centrino is only dangerous BECAUSE of the marketing and the 400 lb. gorilla that Intel has become. It seems like every 5 minutes I see or hear that Centrino commercial. This is the battle that Apple has lost. I agree, that even as an island, (which they definitely are now), the only way to sell more, is to be seen more. You have to spend to make money, and Apple's ads never show people what the machines can do, just how cool they look. As dumb as people lugging around desks in order to go wireless is, it gets the idea across that these laptops will be wireless. It's all about getting the idea across and making it stick, and Intel is doing that quite well.

Regards,
Gus

 

[macktheknife]

Remember too that Centrino is more than just Airport and wireless networking for PC laptops. It is a completely redesigned processor that promises faster processing at lower clockspeed and less energy usage (and hence longer battery life). From the reviews that I have read thus far, the Centrino processors seem to hold great promise.

 

[herr_neumann]

I am just hoping the counter to this will be built in airport extreme with an internal expansion slot for future upgrades, when the 970 comes out that is. Maybe even bumb the airport extreme to support 802.11a too. Now that would allow apple to talk some ****...

 

[alexlai5050]

Centurio or whatever it is has a good market
there marketing team has done quite well like the non computer people i know go round saying im going to buy a laptop with that new processeuer in cus mines crap ad it runs flat in 2 hours
they mite be sucessful in there first quarter but later people mite start realiasing that it isnt that good for value

 

[i_wolf]

I suggest that some people here take a look at the anandtech review of the Pentium M and the Centrino technology. Excellent review. But any how what i tool from it was that like it or not this technology is a great thing. Means more thin and light but for once, thin and light will be in combination with power. For the majority of tests there the 1.6 Pentium M beat out the 2.4 (i think could have been 2.2) Pentium 4M by quite a large margin. Considering that apple are still using a slow G4 in their powerbooks, and furthermore considering that barefeats and digitalvideoediting has already showed dual G4's being killed by single P4's (granted desktop) this should be a source of worry for apple. Why? well apple could at the very least claim victory in battery life tests and thing and light which is important to a lot of individuals, now the centrino technology makes the wintel world take victory on the thin and light and the battery while still providing the traditional superpower of a high end Wintel combo.
Just my humble opinion however
Kind Regards,
i_wolf

 

[macktheknife]

Originally posted by i_wolf
I suggest that some people here take a look at the anandtech review of the Pentium M and the Centrino technology. Excellent review. But any how what i tool from it was that like it or not this technology is a great thing. Means more thin and light but for once, thin and light will be in combination with power. For the majority of tests there the 1.6 Pentium M beat out the 2.4 (i think could have been 2.2) Pentium 4M by quite a large margin. Considering that apple are still using a slow G4 in their powerbooks, and furthermore considering that barefeats and digitalvideoediting has already showed dual G4's being killed by single P4's (granted desktop) this should be a source of worry for apple. Why? well apple could at the very least claim victory in battery life tests and thing and light which is important to a lot of individuals, now the centrino technology makes the wintel world take victory on the thin and light and the battery while still providing the traditional superpower of a high end Wintel combo.
Just my humble opinion however
Kind Regards,
i_wolf

Exactly--you hit Centrino's potential (and Apple's problems) right on the head.

 

[alxths]

Indeed, its a big problem for apple, but supporters of PC laptops will probably be having our worries about a year down the road(not a great comparison, but you get the point). You can't expect everyone to come out with their new productst at the same time--they just take turns outdoing each other... Well, that's how I see it at least.

 

[Abstract]

I'm going to get a PC laptop because Apple doesn't give me a reason to do otherwise.

Oh, and don't give me the OSX vs WinXP speech, because I have never had a problem with WinXP. Some rare crashes when shutting down, but that's all. Like I have said in previous threads regarding laptops, Apple is now losing in every category where it competes with PC makers. At least we used to wear the crown in the laptop arena, but not anymore. I seriously hope Apple doesn't hold off on putting the 970 into their notebooks, and just put those babies in their entire Power line ASAP, because there's no time to waste.

 

[iJon]

Originally posted by Abstract
I'm going to get a PC laptop because Apple doesn't give me a reason to do otherwise.

Oh, and don't give me the OSX vs WinXP speech, because I have never had a problem with WinXP. Some rare crashes when shutting down, but that's all. Like I have said in previous threads regarding laptops, Apple is now losing in every category where it competes with PC makers. At least we used to wear the crown in the laptop arena, but not anymore. I seriously hope Apple doesn't hold off on putting the 970 into their notebooks, and just put those babies in their entire Power line ASAP, because there's no time to waste.

bye, have fun with xp. but yet at the end of your post you talk about apple putting a faster processor in the powerbook, sounds to me like apple does give you a reason to stay. we all know pcs are faster, so whats holding you back

iJon

 

[Abstract]

Only the possibility of them putting the 970 asap instead of putting them first in the PM's, and THEN into the PB's later on. I want to get a laptop, and I really don't mind getting a Windows laptop, but if the PB's and PM's are updated at the same time, then great. But if Apple chooses to update their PMacs with the 970 first, then update the PB's with a 1.25GHz instead of the 970, and then wait 6 months to finally update the PB's with the 970, then I'll take a PC laptop and not bother waiting. Centrino is a great technology, and I'm very surprised that Intel managed this. The only downside of getting a Centrino-equipped laptop is that its not a Mac.

 

[Sherman]

I'm actually quite sad for apple right now. They're basically killing themselves. It's really bad. I wish that once, JUST ONCE, Apple would hurry. They wouldn't lug along like they've got all the time in the world and actually take some fscking action.

970 already damn you!