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Are we over-criticizing the 720p webcam?

dogslobber said:
The fact is it has a lousy 720p webcam in it. Who'd have thought they actually made such a lousy resolution in 2020?

Now the real question is why Apple is putting a piece of junk in there and selling it in 2020. Shameful.
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The fact is 720p looks awesome on a 65” big screen TV. How is it not enough resolution? It seems you are just trolling. Shameful.
 
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Personally, i don’t care as I use an iPad Pro & not a macbook Pro. But 720 P cameras do seem kinda lame in 2020/21...especially since more people are working at home now due to Covid. I have a feeling Apple will be adding a better camera in the upcoming 15” Macbook Pros with the M1X or whatever they will call the high end version of the M1 chip. We shall see.
 
tothemoonsands said:
Quite frankly floored. 720p isn’t the worst thing in the world, it’s just very much outdated and behind the times. It’s not in line with the rest of Apple’s innovations. 1080p should be the standard, there’s no doubt about that. I can see where we don’t need 4K/UHD, but 1080p HD should be a given. This is coming from someone who just slaps a sticker over it anyways. But nonetheless, a $1500-2000 machine should have a 1080p webcam without question.
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Would you rather have a low quality 1080p or a higher quality 720p? In any case, Apple chose to go with higher quality.

Apple doesn’t do spec sheet porn, the megapixel specs on iPhones for the last 12 years are proof of that.
 
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On the Air, no.

On the Pro, yes.

The "Pro" system should have at least a 1080p webcam.

No, it isn't vital for Zoom meetings, most of which I've been on the past 9 months have had enough attendees with enough bandwidth issues that nobody will notice the difference between 480p and 720p, much less 1080p.

But I have had to give a couple "virtual conference" talks, and in those, maximum quality always helps. I use a 1080p camcorder through an HDMI capture device - but the webcam in my HP "Pro" laptop would do just fine in a pinch and not be "terrible." The webcam in my MacBook Pro? Much worse than the HP's. And I have the 16" Pro. It absolutely should have a better webcam.
 
defunder said:
Are there any other Macbook parts that haven’t changed in a decade?

Personally, future-proofing to 1080p would be nice, considering I’m planning to have my next Macbook for half a decade or longer.
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Putting in a worse 1080p camera than a better 720p camera isn’t future proofing.
 
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I've never understood the big fuss surrounding the cameras since these M1s launched.

It's not a question of if but when Apple releases entirely new notebook designs, and those will undoubtedly feature new cameras.

The current M1 Macs are all based on existing chassis and components, so it would make no sense for Apple to switch things up when they could save features for upcoming products. Yes, they might sound stingy, but at the end end of the day the MBA and MBP were designed for a specific camera module in mind.
 
PickUrPoison said:
That’s not what Apple’s customers want, and Apple knows it.
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You seem to wanna go to the ends of the earth to defend Apple. You can’t be that naive to think that Apple doesn’t have the technology to fit in a better quality 1080p cam on their screens. It would just cut into their profits.

It’s a choice, not a lack of tech out there. Same reason why the base model iPads have the crappy front cam yet the higher end and THINNER iPads have much better resolution front cameras.

During these times where people are much more reliant on things such as zoom meetings, I think Apple could have stepped up the quality. I think it would have made a great selling feature. And they know it would have, that’s why they still tried to push the front camera quality in their presentation.

I’m not an Apple hater, but at some point this shameless defending gets to be embarrassing... for you
 
JustAnExpat said:
YES! There's virtually no laptops or notebooks in Apple's price range that I could find that doesn't have a 720p camera.

The Dell XPS series have a 720p camera

The HP Spectre series have a 720p camera

Lenovo Thinkbook 13" has a 720p camera

Lenovo T15g Thinkpad has a 720p camera (that model is $3,000)

If everyone is selling a 720p camera on all computers, why should Apple be an exception to their low end machines?
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It’s 2020 me want 4K 🤣
 
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UnLiMiTeD558 said:
You seem to wanna go to the ends of the earth to defend Apple. You can’t be that naive to think that Apple doesn’t have the technology to fit in a better quality 1080p cam on their screens. It would just cut into their profits.

It’s a choice, not a lack of tech out there. Same reason why the base model iPads have the crappy front cam yet the higher end and THINNER iPads have much better resolution front cameras.

During these times where people are much more reliant on things such as zoom meetings, I think Apple could have stepped up the quality. I think it would have made a great selling feature. And they know it would have, that’s why they still tried to push the front camera quality in their presentation.

I’m not an Apple hater, but at some point this shameless defending gets to be embarrassing... for you
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OP said “they could have made the screen a lot thicker.”

I said “That’s not what Apple’s customers want, and Apple knows it.”

Nothing you wrote has anything to do with any of that, as far as I can tell. Are you agreeing with me or OP?
 
Jobs’ vision was to build his computers first and then it was up to the tech guys to fit around that. Unless folk want thicker lids and heavier laptops, get a grip and deal with 720p.
 
UnLiMiTeD558 said:
And why does it have to be worse exactly? There’s also the option of a better 1080p cam. Are we ignoring this fact?
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We aren’t, but you might be. Given the depth constraint, the best 640 or 720p will be better than the best 1080p, 2160 or 4K.

The problem with image quality on Mac laptops is not insufficient resolution. You can’t solve the problem of relatively poor low light performance from a small sensor in a narrow assembly, simply by upping the resolution.

Wanting a better camera on the Mac makes all the sense in the world.

Wanting a 1080p camera because 1080 p’s are moar than 720 makes zero sense.
 
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UnLiMiTeD558 said:
And why does it have to be worse exactly? There’s also the option of a better 1080p cam. Are we ignoring this fact?
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All things being equal, more dense sensors are a trade-off. You can resolve more details, with the cost being issues handling indoor lighting that is more commonly found in homes, as your pixels shrink. The irony here is that I don't think 720p is actually much of a cost saver at this point. The cost of these sensors are in the die size more than resolution, and yields should be very good for small embeddable cameras like these.

That said, is it possible better 1080p sensors exist that can handle the same low light situations the 720p sensor Apple uses that would work? Very probably. But I'd just point out that comparing to a good external webcam is comparing to something with a lot more room, and can use larger sensors to wind up with as good, or lower density than what you get in a laptop lid. Just so much more space.
 
PickUrPoison said:
OP said “they could have made the screen a lot thicker.”

I said “That’s not what Apple’s customers want, and Apple knows it.”

Nothing you wrote has anything to do with any of that, as far as I can tell. Are you agreeing with me or OP?
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I’m more or less addressing your slew of posts in this thread that defends them no matter what’s being said.
 
PickUrPoison said:
We aren’t, but you might be. Given the depth constraint, the best 640 or 720p will be better than the best 1080p, 2160 or 4K.

The problem with image quality on Mac laptops is not insufficient resolution. You can’t solve the problem of relatively poor low light performance from a small sensor in a narrow assembly, simply by upping the resolution.

Wanting a better camera on the Mac makes all the sense in the world.

Wanting a 1080p camera because 1080 p’s are moar than 720 makes zero sense.
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It wouldn’t make sense 5 years ago. But it makes perfect sense to request this bump in 2020 when they have all the tech they need to do this. Just lacking the will to put it in just yet.

I have a feeling the next batch of MacBooks coming next year will magically have a much improved camera without having to make a thicker lid. And I don’t think that tech would have just magically dropped into their lap. I think it’s been in their back pocket for quite some time but wanted to hold out longer for the redesign.

People are getting frustrated because many of us know they have the means to do better and have for awhile and choose not to. Especially for the premium they charge (though now with the big performance boost, it’s a much better value but what was their excuse prior?)
 
Krevnik said:
All things being equal, more dense sensors are a trade-off. You can resolve more details, with the cost being issues handling indoor lighting that is more commonly found in homes, as your pixels shrink. The irony here is that I don't think 720p is actually much of a cost saver at this point. The cost of these sensors are in the die size more than resolution, and yields should be very good for small embeddable cameras like these.

That said, is it possible better 1080p sensors exist that can handle the same low light situations the 720p sensor Apple uses that would work? Very probably. But I'd just point out that comparing to a good external webcam is comparing to something with a lot more room, and can use larger sensors to wind up with as good, or lower density than what you get in a laptop lid. Just so much more space.
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I’m not comparing to an external webcam, a good quality external cam will beat out 99.9% of laptops out there. But at the same time, Apple has ample camera tech at their disposal, much more then most laptop manufactures do. They can do better, and as I said in my last post addressing someone else; I guarantee there will be a big bump up in that area in their next design. And it won’t be because they made the lid thicker
 
UnLiMiTeD558 said:
It wouldn’t make sense 5 years ago. But it makes perfect sense to request this bump in 2020 when they have all the tech they need to do this. Just lacking the will to put it in just yet.
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Maybe that’s how you got off-track—that couldn’t be further from the truth.
 
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