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Are you going to buy a gaming controller ?
- Thread starter Che Castro
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If Apple reverses course and allow Devs to build controller only games, I might.
TrueBlou
macrumors 601
I don't see it making much difference to be honest. Sure supporting the remote limits input options when using it, but all we have to do is make a simplified control scheme for the remote and offer an expanded scheme for the full controllers. I say simplified, in reality it'll probably be more complex with just the remote.
Ultimately the best experience will be with a full controller, so as long as developers take the time to support them (and it's hardly time consuming) it will be worth owning one.
Take a racing game for example, for remote support you could have auto acceleration, motion steering and still have the touchpad and a couple of buttons for say, camera and braking.
Hardly ideal but it works for iOS games and it'll suit some people.
But then fire up your controller and you have full console style analogue steering, accelerating and braking. Buttons for camera, handbrake and so on.
It's a double edged sword. Not forcing compulsory remote support limits the potential audience for developers, not everyone will want to fork out for them and we know Apple isn't exactly keen on fragmentation of its user base. On the other hand, allowing controller only games would free us from having to find ways around the limitations of the controller and focus on one perfect control scheme.
Personally I would love to see Call of Duty iPad game ported to ATV. But that game would definitely need a controller.
TrueBlou
macrumors 601
Deffo, some fps action would be nice. Again tho, and I'm just riffing here. You could have motion controls for the aiming, touchpad for movement and the buttons for shoot and jump maybe. That way you appease Apple with remote support and you can offer a proper configuration, using analogue sticks and triggers and so on with the controllers.
I'm intending to make the game I'm working on universal across all the devices and while it's not as complex as a call of duty style fps, I'm not finding supporting the remote to be an issue.
I'm sure that in time the new ATV will be a decent gaming option as an addition to my consoles. It's not going to replace any, not by a long shot. But if Apple play their cards right, and this is Apple, a future revision of the ATV could be a bit of a Trojan horse for Apple to be a player in the home gaming market.
TrueBlou
macrumors 601
I've been chomping at the bit to talk about it for the past two years, I'm usually crap at keeping secrets 😀 but I've been holding off until I was sure I could pull it off properly and I've got some footage to show.
All being well it'll be unveiled in a couple of weeks and I'll be blabbing on about it here and over at Touch Arcade.
Until then, well, I'll say it's a platformer (sorry to disappoint, no fps yet) because I've wanted to make one since I was about 9, which was a long, long time ago 😀
But it's got a really, reeeally big difference to the usual iOS platform game fare.
oneMadRssn
macrumors 603
I don't really see a need for gaming on the ATV for the casual gamer, and hence no need to buy an expensive controller.
Today, one can get a last-gen XBOX 360 (S or E models even) with two wireless controllers and a decent hard drive for less than $100 easy, in like-new or new condition. Then you can enjoy a back catalog of 100s of great AAA, franchise, etc. games for $5-$10/game on half.com or amazon marketplace. The graphics will probably be better than on an ATV for most of the games. Or if you subscribe to xbox live gold, the free titles they are giving away right now are worth the price alone. This is enough to keep gamers like me, who previously didn't want to spend the time or money on a modern console, happy for 5+ years. I highly doubt I will ever run out of xbox 360 games to play. There are fun single-player games and easy party-games - the width of the catalog is huge as well. I went with xbox 360, but the PS3 offers pretty much the exact same thing, and the WiiU will be at that price point in terms of games and hardware soon.
Clearly serious gamers who want the latest and greatest graphics and games aren't interested in last-gen console games, but those people aren't interested in ATV games either. But for casual gamers, last-gen consoles offer everything we want: low price gear, low price games, massive catalog of games, and easy to use. I see zero incentive to buy into gaming on ATV.
Today, one can get a last-gen XBOX 360 (S or E models even) with two wireless controllers and a decent hard drive for less than $100 easy, in like-new or new condition. Then you can enjoy a back catalog of 100s of great AAA, franchise, etc. games for $5-$10/game on half.com or amazon marketplace. The graphics will probably be better than on an ATV for most of the games. Or if you subscribe to xbox live gold, the free titles they are giving away right now are worth the price alone. This is enough to keep gamers like me, who previously didn't want to spend the time or money on a modern console, happy for 5+ years. I highly doubt I will ever run out of xbox 360 games to play. There are fun single-player games and easy party-games - the width of the catalog is huge as well. I went with xbox 360, but the PS3 offers pretty much the exact same thing, and the WiiU will be at that price point in terms of games and hardware soon.
Clearly serious gamers who want the latest and greatest graphics and games aren't interested in last-gen console games, but those people aren't interested in ATV games either. But for casual gamers, last-gen consoles offer everything we want: low price gear, low price games, massive catalog of games, and easy to use. I see zero incentive to buy into gaming on ATV.
TrueBlou
macrumors 601
I guess it's different things to different people. I have over 30 consoles, starting from the 70's up to now with all 3 of the current gen consoles.
They all still get used, all the classic consoles are set up in my office so that I can do some retro gaming when the notion takes me and the current ones are set up downstairs.
That's the consoles, I've got my Mac an iPhone and an iPad, a Windows tablet and a Fire TV. All of those get games played on them as well. I've actually just spent about £80 on a couple of controllers for the Fire TV and they are worth every penny.
The thing is, there will without doubt be games, and good games at that, that will appear on the ATV that simply won't be available on any other device. After all there are some great iOS games already that don't appear anywhere else.
I'm not a hardcore gamer any more, I simply don't have the time. But when I do get some free time to play a game, I like to have a good choice of what to play. Every single system I own has a selection of exclusive games that justifies its place in my collection and I fully expect the new Apple TV to offer that as well.
I already have a controller for the ATV when it launches, I use it for my iPad and iPhone just now and the difference it makes to the games you can use it with means I don't regret spending the money on it at all. In fact because it will be compatible with the ATV just means I'm going to get even better value for my money.
They all still get used, all the classic consoles are set up in my office so that I can do some retro gaming when the notion takes me and the current ones are set up downstairs.
That's the consoles, I've got my Mac an iPhone and an iPad, a Windows tablet and a Fire TV. All of those get games played on them as well. I've actually just spent about £80 on a couple of controllers for the Fire TV and they are worth every penny.
The thing is, there will without doubt be games, and good games at that, that will appear on the ATV that simply won't be available on any other device. After all there are some great iOS games already that don't appear anywhere else.
I'm not a hardcore gamer any more, I simply don't have the time. But when I do get some free time to play a game, I like to have a good choice of what to play. Every single system I own has a selection of exclusive games that justifies its place in my collection and I fully expect the new Apple TV to offer that as well.
I already have a controller for the ATV when it launches, I use it for my iPad and iPhone just now and the difference it makes to the games you can use it with means I don't regret spending the money on it at all. In fact because it will be compatible with the ATV just means I'm going to get even better value for my money.
TrueBlou
macrumors 601
I think the chances of that are pretty much none. Unless some sort of jailbreak is involved I think it will be the same situation as the rest of the iOS devices.
steve-p
macrumors 68000
I find the biggest limitation of iOS games at the moment is the touch interface, and I am not expecting the standard ATV4 controller to be much better. I will definitely be looking to get a third party controller. However, a proper controller is not going to magically turn ATV4 into an Xbox/PS equivalent overnight. Games for those may be a lot more expensive, but they are also 100x the size. Third party controllers may enable ATV4+ games to close the gap on the existing consoles over time, depending of course on hardware limitations.
chrisrosemusic1
macrumors 6502a
What about if you can play your already owned iOS games at some point? That may or may not happen but that would be an awesome reason to buy one.
oneMadRssn
macrumors 603
Nearly all my iOS games are casual puzzle games to kill time on the train. Even still, in the very unlikely even that my various touch-screen-based puzzle games are somehow adapted to the TV and controller format, it's just not worth paying $50 for that game controller.
$50 buys 10 really good last-gen console games.
TrueBlou
macrumors 601
Or one good current gen game. The other thing to consider with the ATV is that there will also be a lot of free games as well. So what your not paying for on games can pay for a controller.
That's not even taking into account the perceived value of games. For example, my next game has been over two years in the works. If it was releasing on a console/handheld digital store it would be priced at least £14.99. But with the state of the AppStore these days it'll either cost less than a bar of chocolate or be free.
Not so many years ago no one thought there would be much of a market for games on a phone with nothing but a touchscreen. Now it's a multi-billion dollar industry that is steadily eroding the dedicated gaming handheld market. Apple currently has arguably the biggest gaming platform on the planet with iOS.
Gaming on the Apple TV is going to happen and if history has taught us anything with Apple, it'll happen in a big way. Even in a market dominated by Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo Apple will make an impact. Apple also has the ability to offer something none of those companies currently do, or at least not well. The ability to play a game on your tv and then seamlessly continue where you left off on your phone or tablet.
There will be those who see it as an inexpensive all in one box that can cater to all their media and gaming needs. There will be people like me, who want to play a variety of games on a variety of systems.
I probably had a point when I started typing this, but I forget what it was. Bloody medication, I shouldn't be allowed near a keyboard when I've had my pills 😀
oneMadRssn
macrumors 603
I see your point - and I don't disagree that the ATV will probably enjoy some success with gaming.
I don't think it's appropriate to compare Apple's success with iPhone gaming to the ATV though. There are a few major differences:
- Gaming on the iPhone introduced a new genre of games to mobile. Passive easy games existed before, but mostly as flash games in the browser, and they were not previously available on mobile. In this sense, the other mobile gaming platforms at the time (Nintendo mostly) were not direct competition, and Apple filled an unfulfilled demand. Was a Sodoku game ever as successful on the Gameboy as it was on the iPhone, for example? Or one of the dozens of bubble polling games? None of this was surprising even back then - people on this forum were clamoring to be able to play flash games on the iPhone everyday. I don't see a similar unfulfilled demand in the living room gaming market (the big 3 have pretty much every square inch covered), and Apple doesn't seem to be offering a new genre of gaming. Indeed, it looks like they are trying to mimic the Wii.
- In mobile, users aren't really willing to have more than one device. A user is faced with the choice of iPhone or Gameboy, but not both; they chose iPhone obviously. In the living room gaming market, users are perfectly willing to have 2 or 3 or more devices. Thus, people aren't going to put away and stop using their consoles because they got the new ATV, like they did with the Gameboy/PSP when the iPhone came out.
One factor I am unsure of, is how well users will react to advertising on ATV. As far as I understand, right now there isn't an iAds API for tvOS. However, I am sure the free games will have ads using other means of advertising. I think developers will have to be careful to strike a good balance between ad revenue and annoying the user.
Finally, you can't really compare this whole thing to modern consoles. If someone already has a modern console, odds are they aren't going to game on the ATV at all because they are at least a somewhat serious gamer or really want to play the next iteration of same franchise game. Those are not the folks that Apple can go after.
I think Apple needs to sell this as a value proposition. This is why I think they are requiring developers to make games that work with the remote only, and the controller is optional. If the controller is required, the value proposition is ruined.
I already bought the Hori Horipad Wireless Gaming Controller from the Apple Store online. I use it with my iPhone/iPad. Crossy Road responds way better than using touch.
TrueBlou
macrumors 601
I don't disagree that the market is an entirely different affair when it comes to home gaming. Nor do I expect Apple to replace any of the established brands. I'm just trying to say that Apple will definitely carve out a market among them. My iOS analogy was intended to reflect that Apple will undoubtedly cater to a demographic who wouldn't ordinarily own a dedicated gaming console. That market could be huge, as you mention the Wii, just look at the install base of that system compared to the more traditional gaming systems.
The whole revenue system is a pain in the rear end full stop regardless of system these days. Being an old fashioned gamer of more than 30 years I'm perfectly happy to pay for my games. Unfortunately these days the amount of people willing to do that seems to be lessening by the day. Just as a side note, I read a review on the Google Play store for a game, I forget which one, where the woman actually said she thought it was one of the best games she'd ever played and would give it five stars if the developer removed the adverts and made it completely free. But because of the adverts she was giving it two stars. I played it, the ad's were anything but intrusive, actually quite minimal. How many of these people go to their work for free every day, but lets not open that can of worms 🙄
As for people who own a modern console not wanting to game on an Apple TV. Well, I have all three and I'm looking forward to gaming on the Apple device because I know there will be an exclusive array of games on it. In fact with the ease of developing and releasing on Apple devices I've no doubt there will be more exclusives on it than any other system. Not that these will be anything like say an Uncharted 4 level of experience. But there will be plenty for people like me to justify gaming on it. Indeed there will be some gems released that for a variety of reasons just wouldn't see the light of day on the big established gaming brands.
But at the end of the day your completely right in that they (Apple) have to package this whole thing as a value option, which it would seem is exactly what they are doing. As a developer having to support the remote is a pain in the butt, however I do see why Apple are doing it and I completely agree with their thinking. Without that out of the box support for gaming in some form, it would fall flat on it's arse. The majority of people buying into the new Apple TV are not going to rush out and spend more money on a controller just for some games..... Not yet anyway.