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I just inherited a Samsung Core i5 laptop that came with 4GB RAM. (Yeah, it's not a Mac, but I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth!) It runs Windows 7 just fine.

Given that my MacBook Pro (first-gen) tops out at 2GB, it's quite a difference, especially since my job requires me to run some virtual machines (VirtualBox) when I'm at a customer's site.

I went ahead and maxed out the Sammy's RAM to 8GB. Price? $22. RAM is dirt-cheap right now. Max out your system!
 
My MBA runs ok with Lion with 4 GB of RAM, but the SSD has a lot to do with this. I found Snow Leopard painful with 4 GB and a mechanical hard drive on my old computer and had to upgrade. I would say 8 GB is the minimum these days.

I am also unlucky enough to have to use a Windows 7 laptop for one of my clients occasionally. The previous one had 6 GB of RAM and a 2010 CPU (I couldn't be bothered to check which one). It wasn't great, but it was bearable. Unfortunately it was stolen by one of the TSA officials at San Diego airport when I left it in my hold baggage.

I now have a brand new version of that laptop with a Sandy bridge CPU, but only 4 GB of RAM. It runs a lot worse than the previous one. I don't use it for "heavy duty" work - just a lot of documents (excel, word, powerpoint, visio) and MS Outlook. It's constantly spinning up for no discernible reason and is very clunky. I suspect though a lot of that has to do with the corporate stuff running in the background. The crux of the matter is that I don't think 4 GB is enough for a modern operating system, whether it's OSX or Windows. Of course, I am not including Linux since most variants run quite happily with a lot less memory.

I agree with this. The MBA runs great with 4GB, but I am sure the SSD is acting as RAM to a degree to make the lack of RAM invisible. I could run VMs with 256MB of RAM (for Windows Server 2003) even with Office 2010 installed and it ran really good.

My fiancé just got a MacBook Pro 13" (current model) and it has 4GB, and it struggles pretty bad when several things are going. And that's just running the apps that come with the machine + Office 2011. I really hope that Apple compensates on the new model machines and puts 6GB+ in them - this is especially important for HDD models.
 
psykick5 (Opening Poster).

In a perfect world and things being 100% optimized, one wants their computer system with Swap File size = 0 and Swap Outs at 0 counts as well.

For my "typical home user with NO games" iMac, I simply bought 3rd party 2x4 GBs and installed within their empty slots. Thus, creating total of 12 GBs. This created 0/0 counts on my iMac system.

As a suggestion, buy/install 3rd party 2x4 GBs (around $50) and give it a try. If needing even more RAM (to create 0/0), then replace Apple factory 2x2s with 3rd party 2x4s (creating 16 GBs). For now, I would simply buy 3rd party 2x4 GBs and give them a try.

Hope this helps.
 
Can someone please explain the page-in/page-out in simple terms, why it's good to have 0/0 on them?
 
Can someone please explain the page-in/page-out in simple terms, why it's good to have 0/0 on them?
page-ins will never be 0 as that happens when programs start up. Page outs and more importantly page outs per second being low to zero means your system isn't wasting time writing memory out to disk to make room in memory to run applications.

Overly simple, but should answer your question.
 
Can someone please explain the page-in/page-out in simple terms, why it's good to have 0/0 on them?

In simple terms, ignore "page in". Every computer pages in. After all, it needs to "page in" when the computer is 1st turned on.

Page Out is when there is NOT enough physical RAM and its "not active" part of memory is temporally dumped (paged) to disk. When that info is needed again, it Pages it back in. When "too much" Page in and Page out is performed, its called "Disk Thrashing". And, this state dramatically bogs down the system. To explain Disk Trashing, surf: http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/D/disk_thrashing.html

If wondering, my iMac system has below System Memory info (after average working day). As seen below, 0/0 counts.

iMacMemoryScreenPrint.png



Hope this helps…
 
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You definitely need more ram, go for 8gb if not more. The activity monitor indicates you have less than 100mb of free ram which in not good at all.
 
You definitely need more ram, go for 8gb if not more. The activity monitor indicates you have less than 100mb of free ram which in not good at all.

I assume you're referring to the first post. Free RAM is not important. That's not how memory management works. What is important is his page outs and it is a high number so he probably needs more RAM, depending on when was the last time he started since that number keeps going up from the last restart.
 
You might want to select "All Processes" instead of "My Processes" to get a better picture of where all the RAM is going.
 
I Just bought 16gb of RAM for my iMac from crucial.com and its dirt cheap right now.. if you feel you need more memory then get it, you'll feel better for it :)
 
Can someone please explain the page-in/page-out in simple terms, why it's good to have 0/0 on them?

Think of your computer memory as paper note books with many pages in each one. In simple terms a computer has two note books - one is the RAM and the other is virtual memory, which is stored on your hard drive. Technically speaking there is a third note book, which is the stupidly fast cache memory on your CPU, but that's beyond the scope of this post.

A typical computer will have 4 gigabytes of RAM and about 500 gigabytes hard drive. You can already see that you have a lot more virtual RAM, unless your hard drive is full (which is very bad by the way). RAM is a lot faster to access than a hard drive. It does not matter if you have a solid state drive, which are obviously faster than mechanical hard drives. Typical RAM in computers these days is approximately 20 times faster than the average consumer solid state drive.

Now that we'e covered the background, let's go back to the note books analogy. Your computer, much like you, needs to remember stuff. It does this by writing to the pages in a note book. Each page can store a finite amount of information and, as I said, there are only a finite number of pages (how much RAM you have). The good thing is that these note books have clips, so you can remove or add pages as necessary without tearing or destroying anything. When your computer needs to remember something it first checks if there is a page available in your RAM. If there is, it simply writes that information to the available page. This is called a page in. Things get complicated when your RAM is being used by other applications and system processes and there aren't free pages to use in the RAM note book. This is when the second note book (the virtual memory) needs to be used.

In a nutshell, the operating system checks which pages haven't been used for a while in your RAM note book. This would normally be the pages for an application that's idling in the background or hasn't been used for some time. This page then gets removed from your RAM notebook and placed into your virtual memory notebook (in other words, it's stored on your hard drive) .This is called a page out. This is why page outs are bad. Writing to the hard drive is a very expensive operation and takes a lot longer than writing to the RAM. Once the page out has occurred the new information gets written to the RAM note book, since there is a free page available (page in).

Now, most people would say, "But that means having a low free RAM is bad". It's not true, because operating systems like OSX do things slightly differently. They actually allow the operating system and applications to hold onto the RAM (inactive RAM in activity monitor) for as long as possible. Then, when an application needs more RAM, the inactive pages are assigned to it, and the application's pages that were sitting there previously will be "paged out" to the virtual memory hard drive. This is why you sometimes see slow downs and beach balls when you switch back to an application that's been idling in the background for a while. The worst case is if you're constantly running out of RAM, because you're performing a task on a huge amount of data and the operating system has to try and move pages back and forth from the virtual memory to the RAM. This is when you get to a state of "thrashing".

wikipedia said:
In virtual memory systems, thrashing may be caused by programs or workloads that present insufficient locality of reference: if the working set of a program or a workload cannot be effectively held within physical memory, then constant data swapping, i.e., thrashing, may occur.


Some operating systems (like Windows XP) aggressively try to free RAM from idling applications. Windows 7 is somewhere in between OSX and XP. It tries to use more RAM than previous versions of Windows for caching.
 
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I'm sorry but it really does make a difference when you hardly have any free RAM left, you can theorize all you want on what impact inactive ram has but my from my experience it really comes down to how much free ram is available.
 
I'm sorry but it really does make a difference when you hardly have any free RAM left, you can theorize all you want on what impact inactive ram has but my from my experience it really comes down to how much free ram is available.

I am sorry, but that is wrong and I am not theorising anything.
 
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I'm sorry but it really does make a difference when you hardly have any free RAM left, you can theorize all you want on what impact inactive ram has but my from my experience it really comes down to how much free ram is available.
Actually you can run perfectly fine with very little free ram. It all depends on what is happening on the system.

As I stated above, my recommendation on getting more memory was based on page outs and the amount of pagefile space used. Those 2 plus page outs per second are the big indicators on whether or not more memory would help.
 
I'm sorry but it really does make a difference when you hardly have any free RAM left, you can theorize all you want on what impact inactive ram has but my from my experience it really comes down to how much free ram is available.

In my experience, things run really smoothly until free RAM runs out. After that, it is best to close the application using the most active RAM and start it again to free up RAM. A simple example: I'm using 24GB RAM. Let's say Final Cut Pro X is using 16GB active and the other 8GB inactive. The program runs much slower when there's zero free RAM (my experience). Closing it and starting it up again, thus resulting in a 1-2GB active, 8GB inactive, ~14GB free scenario runs noticeably better. When free RAM runs out, the program beachballs constantly and trimming, selecting objects in the timeline, and scrolling slow way down. Rendering is unaffected. Regardless of the inactive vs. free RAM debate Final Cut Pro X runs much much better for me when there's free RAM available, even if its only 1GB. This obviously might differ between applications.
 
just to clarify, are you just casually running starcraft II on the side while browsing with chrome or something? of course thats going to eat up your ram.
 
In my experience, things run really smoothly until free RAM runs out. After that, it is best to close the application using the most active RAM and start it again to free up RAM. A simple example: I'm using 24GB RAM. Let's say Final Cut Pro X is using 16GB active and the other 8GB inactive. The program runs much slower when there's zero free RAM (my experience). Closing it and starting it up again, thus resulting in a 1-2GB active, 8GB inactive, ~14GB free scenario runs noticeably better. When free RAM runs out, the program beachballs constantly and trimming, selecting objects in the timeline, and scrolling slow way down. Rendering is unaffected. Regardless of the inactive vs. free RAM debate Final Cut Pro X runs much much better for me when there's free RAM available, even if its only 1GB. This obviously might differ between applications.

That is exactly my experience, There may be a baseline in how inactive memory is supposed to be used but, but the people writing the apps can change how inactive memory is used especially if they mess up the coding.
 
That is exactly my experience, There may be a baseline in how inactive memory is supposed to be used but, but the people writing the apps can change how inactive memory is used especially if they mess up the coding.

That is, unfortunately, the crux of the matter.
 
Need more memory

It all depends on what you do with your machine. My wife has a older Macbook Pro with only 2 gigs (max allowed) and it works fine for her. I can easily use 32 gigs with VM's & image editing.

Look at swap space & page outs. You are swapping a lot of data in & out of the swap space on the hard drive and thats sloooooooow. Memory is cheap. i would add at least 8 gigs.
 
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