areca ARC-1300-4I ?

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by Honumaui, Sep 1, 2010.

  1. Honumaui macrumors 6502a

    Apr 18, 2008
    at about $129 the areca seems like a good deal ?

    I am used to Areca cards as I have some :) so I trust them
    anyone have one of these ?
  2. alphaod macrumors Core


    Feb 9, 2008
  3. Honumaui thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Apr 18, 2008
    yeah :) no biggy just need some extra drives but dont want choked speeds and dont want highpoint in my box ;)
  4. nanofrog macrumors G4

    May 6, 2008
    Do you mean to run mechanical disks from it?

    If so, then it should be fine (PCIe 1.0 spec, so you get 250MB/s per lane; @ 4x lanes, you max out at 1GB/s), as they do manufacture their own gear. If however, you see the need for 6.0Gb/s (i.e. SSD's), then you may want to go with an ATTO H6xx model (non RAID 6.0Gb/s HBA; is PCIe 2.0 compliant).
  5. Honumaui thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Apr 18, 2008
    yeah hooking up 4 hitachi 7100 on it raid 1/0

    then again pointing that out makes me rethink why not go forward :)

    part of me is thinking get that new firmtek unit for $99 and get by with the two ports for now ? SeriTek/e6G
    run the SSD off those and keep the sleds inside with the 4 hitachi and use the extra sata in optical for boot ?

    the atto is $399 my thought is I might as well jump to the $515 for the areca and get raid :) was trying to avoid that as I was going to do the 1880 series later on and move the 1222x down to the next machine in line

    part of me is also more and more thinking use my older 3,1 with the two extra SATA ports that I already have setup with SSD on them and then the sleds can have the 4 hitachi and BU is all external

    thanks :)

    just picked up another new 3.2 4 core for layout work with 24 gigs so want to get the storage figured out since it never goes above 400-500 gigs its easy to configure :)
    just need a raid 1/0
    SSD boot
    SSD scratch
  6. nanofrog macrumors G4

    May 6, 2008
    It would definitely work for this.

    This will work, but the newertech RAID version is cheaper ($80 at OWC). It's also cheaper than the ARC-1300-4i (hey, $50 bucks is better in your pocket).

    The only thing is, you can run more than 4x drives off of the ARC-1300-4i and can handle SAS if you ever need it (supports up to 128 disks via SAS expanders). At that point though, I'd go for a an HBA with more ports or RAID version.

    I'd hold out for an 1880 series (ARC-1880i = $624 and the ARC 1880x = $780 <assuming you want to stick with 8 ports> at pc-pitstop, as it would be in line with the ARC-1222x you already have).

    You could throttle here, presuming all 6x ports used are those of the ICH.
    2x SSD's = 500MB/s
    4X HDD's = 200MB/s

    Expanding with new employees? :confused:

    I'm assuming you're not building a small farm, given each system has it's own DAS.
  7. Honumaui thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Apr 18, 2008
    no expansion replacing the main layout machine also known as the wifes :)

    so the PS test of my 3,1 is doing 15 seconds on retourch artists ? seems new 3.3 are about 13 seconds some lower ? so I am close enough not to replace yet
    betting the new 3.2 does 14 or less ? I guess we will know in a week :) ordered 24 gigs from transintl this time rather than OWC since it was cheaper ?

    then we will be selling two of our 1,1 machines and using this one for mainly layouts

    my updates ususaly skip one generation but inbetween I update the storage so it gets a boost to make it feel fresher and everything moves down the line so to speak

    funny have my old G5 sitting here have to get rid of that also :) was in the other room for the kids but ended up using a old laptop in clamshell mode as the ichat machine :)

    yeah going to do areca 16 channel 12 out 4 in I think will use the adapters I have seen that can put outboard 8088 on the machine :)

    thanks for the throttle reminder :)
    the SSD on this setup wont be on raid ? if I do go raid on the other ones I have coming in will go outboard for those for sure

    if I do the old 3,1 with the raid 1/0 the scratch will be in single mode along with boot ? since both wont be hitting much I think the bandwidth will be OK

    but why I am looking at a solution to get better :)

    my other thought on the 1880 would be to see what drives come out this spring and then drop the coin on the whole thing at once :)

    I long for the days of my 128K mac :) things were so simple :) my buddy and I took the 128K chips out and replaced them with 512 chips :) man we were cutting edge :) and when chips were big enough you could home solder them ;) hehehehehe

    OK dating myself now ;)
  8. nanofrog macrumors G4

    May 6, 2008
    Ah. OK. Self Preservation kicking in... got it. :eek: :D :p

    Good way to do it IMO, as it spaces out the funds, and keeps you running smoother (better than a MASSIVE single outlay of funds for a system = machine + upgrades + software; and you can keep up with MTBR's for disks).

    Personal Tick - Tock basically. ;)

    DO NOT USE ADAPTERS with internal port cards when running SATA disks (data signal voltage is too low). The set will be too unstable, if you even get it to initialize in the first place. :eek: SAS is fine, but that's a much higher voltage (20V vs. 600mV).

    Instead, use an internal to external cable (here), and keep the length at 1.0 meter, as it's a passive SATA connection (per SATA specification). I've seen this pushed a bit, but not by that much (say ~ 1.5 meters). Run them out of a PCI bracket, which you've already indicated you're fine with. It's cheaper than a purely external solution as well (I've priced this out before on multiple occasions to see if/when it would be better to skip internal drives on the card).

    I wasn't sure if you meant 2x SSD's on the ODD_SATA ports and 4x HDD's on the bays = all 6x SATA ports used on the ICH, two of which should be at least able to consume 500MB/s of the 660MB/s limit. That wouldn't leave enough band for the mechanical array without throttling. This does assume that all the disks would be run simultaneously (worst case, which is how I tend to look at things).

    But splitting the disks off to different controllers (moves some of the band to the PCIe lanes), you'll be just fine. Unfortunately, this means you're forced to spend extra money. :rolleyes:

    Well, mechanical disks still won't be able to saturate 3.0Gb/s (not even 15k rpm SAS, though they'd be the fastest), but SSD's are already there (C300 models are already rated at 330MB/s IIRC).
  9. Honumaui thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Apr 18, 2008
    Nanofrog thanks for the heads up on the OWC cards :) funny I remember seeing them and for some reason they went out the brain ?
    might make me rethink things a bit since I was going to be running two of the OWC SSD 40s in raid 0 on another machine and was trying to figure out best setup :)
    hope these play well with my areca :)

    doing some digging

    interesting over the sil3132

    I think I might pick up some of the basic $49 models wil keep ya posted :)
  10. Honumaui thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Apr 18, 2008
    I have kids I am so used to this part of life :) heheheheheh
  11. nanofrog macrumors G4

    May 6, 2008
    No idea, as I've never tried them. I know Intel's G2 units work, but that's it for sure. So you'd be playing a guinea pig on that one... :eek:

    It's definitely going to be faster, but it can't handle PM enclosures (was under the impression you wanted PM support). Though they do make a 6.0Gb/s model that does (OWC sells it for $80, which is the one I linked previously). An extra $30 isn't bad IMO for future possibilities if you don't need that feature now.

    But the single disk performance (or 1x port per disk if in a stripe set) would be applicable, as they're both using Marvell controllers (same family).
  12. Honumaui thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Apr 18, 2008
    yeah for this setup no PM just need 4 fast ports :)

    I do use two PM ports/cases per setup though
    one a 5 disc raid 5 box for time machine I get about 120MB/s with aja up an down ? good enough for what it is ?
    if I could get a bit more cool :) so I might also order one of the PM cards they sell and try that out also :)
    and the other PM port just bare discs for archiving etc..

    I have a sil3132 along my areca no issues :)

    just thought it interesting read :)

    figure the cards are cheap ? if they dont work move em on to another machine or Return them or ?

    got to catch up some work :) been playing to much :) ehheeheh
  13. nanofrog macrumors G4

    May 6, 2008
    Well, the computers will be cheaper I think... :D :p

    I'm not sure how you mean to split this up. If a single card (slot 3 or 4) and the ICH, or 2x cards on both slots 3 & 4, or if involving a RAID card (slot 2).

    Slots 3 & 4 can be problematic in terms of performance if used simultaneously (and insufficient bandwidth if they are), as the 2009/10 systems share the same 4x lanes for those ports via a PCIe switch. Not sure about the 2008 systems.

    Can you provide a link?

    Some may be software based, which isn't advisable for parity based arrays, while others use an RoC (RAID on a Chip) solution, such as those offered by Oxford, Marvell, or LSI.
  14. Honumaui thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Apr 18, 2008
    good to know on the slots 3&4 I remember that before :) not sure what I will do but the more you know me rest asured I will think it out :)

    the box uses a JMicron JMB393 chip
    from research more hard than soft :)

    first thing I did is replace the fans !
    junk loud fans checked the CFM and went up a bit also put a 80-120 fan adapter and running a 120 as one of the main fans

    CHEAP :) but again worked when I had it needed it etc. usually dont like stuff like this ? but got tired of stuff spread out
    only testing I did was some basic speed ? but also yanked a drive put it back in
    let it rebuild yanked another
    also moved it and had no issue with other controller reading it :)

    and its more about the read on our other one that is strictly to archive stuff ?

    dont want to put to much into a outside box ? but like the 5 drives over the 4 drives ? just cause you get more out of them

    with larger HDD coming out :) its going to be easier for me with some archiving on the 3TB since our base read archive we have is 2.8TB as it sits now and growing
    I keep thinking get a couple 3TB drives and cut it off pretty soon by date then start over ? keep one online and the other offsite
    since this will be purely a read IF we need to look back I dont mind them being really FULL :)
  15. Honumaui thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Apr 18, 2008
    so curious what you think a a good reasonable external raid box is ?

    and I know areca has them also and really thinking this is pretty cool
    load it up with 3TB HDD :) and might make a nice large archive set I can move around if I have to

    the reason I like externals for archive and BU I like to be able to have a box I can grab and stick on another box and get my files in less than a few minutes should my internal card die or something corrupt etc..
    also for the amount of stuff we have I really like one big large volume and since we know raid can maintain its speed much better I can pack em a little more full
    as long as I get 100MB/s good enough for me to pull data when we need it :)

    the areca here

    this is also cool and has peaked my interest ?

    the downside is I can build a nice raid with a case and 1222x for the same price ? but then again this is a nice one stop setup and it wont take up a slot on my machine :) thats my problem I keep looking past my solutions sometimes :)

    I used to have two raid setups one on each box they were both cut/partitioned in half so we each used half and backed up to each others other half ! if that makes sense
    which was nice cause if something happens we can jump on the others machine and finish

    part of me wants to go back to that and then have a Time Machine box for each of us and one large archive like the areca box

    this also cuts down on the number of drives we have spinning and might cut our power bill down ! since all bu could be 5400 drives

    since a tower with twin 30 inch monitors and 30 discs spinning has to be pulling some juice :) usually around 500 or so watts at idle !!! I would like to drop this a bit ?

    any thoughts :)
  16. nanofrog macrumors G4

    May 6, 2008
    It's a basic RoC based box. Better than software RAID (it is hardware, likely based on an ARM processor), but not the performance or additional recovery features you'd find in your Areca. But what would you expect for $200? :eek: :p

    Sadly, this usually has to be done to the SAS based external enclosures as well (SFF-8088 connectors; i.e. Enhance Technologies, Sans Digital,...).

    Keeping the backups external is really a necessity when dealing with RAID in a MP (you could try to run them off of the ICH, and go external with the array), but it does limit capacity vs. eSATA card and enclosures (RAID capable or not).

    Depends on the situation.

    What you have is fine for a backup system (link from newegg), but I wouldn't use it for a primary array (prefer to have the additional recovery features and performance possible via a proper RAID card when using parity arrays).

    Another way is to use iSCSI/AoE for a SAN using HBA's and ZFS's Z-RAID/2 (rather cost effective).

    You can always pull an existing drive, drop in a larger disk, and let it rebuild. Repeat until all disks are replaced, and then expand the array to use the new capacity.

    Both of these use a RAID controller along the lines of their cards (separate processors, cache, and NVRAM, rather than the inexpensive RoC solutions discussed earlier). It's also why they're more expensive. ;)

    They do have their advantages (less to setup physically), and you can get them running without the need of consuming a slot (FW800 or USB). eSATA would, but also allows for faster throughputs (since the MP only has USB 2.0 ports). A USB 3.0 card could be used as well, but currently I've not even heard of any for the MP, and the current cards are a bit gimped anyway (not as much PCIe bandwidth allowed due to the lane configuration as USB 3.0 is capable of).

    This is a nice little trick. I've done something similar (2x RAID cards in a single system, where Card A contains a backup of Card B and vice versa).

    You can use MAID (power management in the Areca) to spin down the drives when not in use for a specified period of time. Less wear on the disks (assuming they don't end up spinning up and down often per day), and consumes less power.

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