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argh why doesn't the Airport Extreme or the Time Capsule have a built in modem?!

A

animatedude

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 27, 2010
1,143
88
i know Internet Service Providers give away modem or routers these day but wouldn't be best if Apple made an Airport Extreme or Time Capsule with a built-in modems?

if you check people questions on apple.com you will see have half of them want to know how to switch off the wireless connection on their Linksys and let Airport Extreme do that...and the other half doesn't even know what Airport Extreme is for..

i know Apple has a habit of getting rid of stuff but anyone else agree this will drive Airport Extreme sales up? it would be the ultimate connection device for macs and no need for additional router..
 
animatedude said:
i know Internet Service Providers give away modem or routers these day but wouldn't be best if Apple made an Airport Extreme or Time Capsule with a built-in modems?

if you check people questions on apple.com you will see have half of them want to know how to switch off the wireless connection on their Linksys and let Airport Extreme do that...and the other half doesn't even know what Airport Extreme is for..

i know Apple has a habit of getting rid of stuff but anyone else agree this will drive Airport Extreme sales up? it would be the ultimate connection device for macs and no need for additional router..
Click to expand...
Which modem? Dialup? Glad they dropped it.

And I hate the bundled wireless/cable/dsl modems. I just bypass it.

The moment you tell tech support your router is Apple-branded, they usually say "sorry, not supported." So I doubt they'd support a DSL/cable modem, even though it would probably work better than the company provided one!
 
What type of modem would they include? DSL? What if you only have cable in your area? Or satellite? Or 4G? Or fixed-based wireless (like me)? FIOS? There are just too many different kinds of "last-mile" networking technologies for Apple to support all of them.
 
Yeah, it sucks. But otherwise, Apple would have to build tens of different versions of the AEBS. And provide support for tons of scenarios in tens of countries and ISPs.

Anyway, about DSL (i think maybe the most common "last mile" technology in rich countries, but I may be wrong) if you pick up an ADSL modem and set it up in "bridge mode", it would be like having it integrated in the AEBS. The AEBS will take care of the PPPoE connection.

If your ISP only support PPPoA (and not PPPoE), you will have to find an ADSL modem with the "half bridge mode", which means the modem will do a PPPoA to PPPoE "conversion" (kinda) and the AEBS will connect using PPPoE. (at least this is what i read around)

These 2 scenarios are the closest thing to having an integrated DSL modem inside the AEBS/TC.

Other scenarios may create double dhcp, double NAT, double rainbows, port forwarding issues, game console problems, impossibility to create a Guest Network, etc. But also may not. Depends on how you configure the 2 devices (modem/modem-router and AEBS).
 
gianly1985 said:
If your ISP only support PPPoA (and not PPPoE), you will have to find an ADSL modem with the "half bridge mode", which means the modem will do a PPPoA to PPPoE "conversion" (kinda) and the AEBS will connect using PPPoE. (at least this is what i read around)
Click to expand...

I'm using half bridge (PPPoA connection). The result out of the modem is a "direct connection" with your public IP address, so no messing around with PPPoE is required. You just get the AEBS to share the connection. It works well and knocked about 20 ms off my latency.
 
Nermal said:
I'm using half bridge (PPPoA connection). The result out of the modem is a "direct connection" with your public IP address, so no messing around with PPPoE is required. You just get the AEBS to share the connection. It works well and knocked about 20 ms off my latency.
Click to expand...

I see.
I didn't know about the details, I just had this post in mind:

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/7998751/

I don't have any actual experience with PPPoA and half bridge mode.

Edit: also, the last post here:

http://forums.macnn.com/92/networking/348371/airport-extreme-base-station-adsl2-modems/

and this:

http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=10995670
 
ilkhan4 said:
What type of modem would they include? DSL? What if you only have cable in your area? Or satellite? Or 4G? Or fixed-based wireless (like me)? FIOS? There are just too many different kinds of "last-mile" networking technologies for Apple to support all of them.
Click to expand...

+1...

And making multiple versions to address any of these types of connections would probably end up resulting in them losing more money.
 
animatedude said:
yes DSL modem.
Click to expand...
Then that would overkill for thousands on cable, or like myself on FIOS.

The only option would be to have 3 SKUs
- regular
- DSL
- cable modem

Aside form compatibility issues (which are HUGE), there are support issues, and having 2 extra SKUs adds to the cost. I used to not think that extra SKU was a big deal, but friends of mine in manufacturing and design have beat it into me that those costs are very real.
 
PurdueGuy said:
Aside form compatibility issues (which are HUGE)
Click to expand...

Very much so. I've seen an issue where someone tried to use a UK-purchased DSL modem in NZ and ended up with a working connection but very high latency. Each network has its own little quirks and it can be very difficult to make one device that works with everything.

Even the modem I use now, which is only sold in NZ and Australia, has different firmware for both countries due to the network differences.
 
PurdueGuy said:
Then that would overkill for thousands on cable, or like myself on FIOS.

The only option would be to have 3 SKUs
- regular
- DSL
- cable modem

Aside form compatibility issues (which are HUGE), there are support issues, and having 2 extra SKUs adds to the cost. I used to not think that extra SKU was a big deal, but friends of mine in manufacturing and design have beat it into me that those costs are very real.
Click to expand...

all the old stuff aside, fiber optics? :D
 
animatedude said:
i know Internet Service Providers give away modem or routers these day but wouldn't be best if Apple made an Airport Extreme or Time Capsule with a built-in modems?

if you check people questions on apple.com you will see have half of them want to know how to switch off the wireless connection on their Linksys and let Airport Extreme do that...and the other half doesn't even know what Airport Extreme is for..

i know Apple has a habit of getting rid of stuff but anyone else agree this will drive Airport Extreme sales up? it would be the ultimate connection device for macs and no need for additional router..
Click to expand...

You can bet on it that his set up (ISP modem and router) will eventually be replaced by a uniform standard/solution.

As technology evolves it will HAVE TO address faster through put decoding, etc., thus they'll need to revisit what they are doing.
 
Thunderhawks said:
You can bet on it that his set up (ISP modem and router) will eventually be replaced by a uniform standard/solution.

As technology evolves it will HAVE TO address faster through put decoding, etc., thus they'll need to revisit what they are doing.
Click to expand...

YEAH MAN! that's what i'm talking about...i'm surprised Apple still didn't do that.at least they can release one with the most popular connection ports which i assume DSL is one of them....

i tell you half of the questions at apple.com is about people confused between their ISP routers and their Time Capsule and AEP.
 
i still think AirPort Extreme with built-in DSL or Cable modem will save most of us headaches and will make ISP consider providing Airport Extreme to its customers which equals more sales for everyone.
 
animatedude said:
i still think AirPort Extreme with built-in DSL or Cable modem will save most of us headaches and will make ISP consider providing Airport Extreme to its customers which equals more sales for everyone.
Click to expand...

I think it's a horrible idea. Completely unnecessary.
 
radiogoober said:
I think it's a horrible idea. Completely unnecessary.
Click to expand...

i just don't like the fact of having 2 devices when 1 can do all! if you check apple forum or even this forum you will notice most Qs about the Airport Extreme are Qs about "how can i connect it to my router" blah blah

Hey Apple! most of your users (at least in Europe and The Middle East) are connected to DSL connection, release an Airport Extreme or Time Capsule with built-in DSL modem....most of us will buy it.

i know ISPs will buy it from you to offer it to their customers.
 
animatedude said:
i just don't like the fact of having 2 devices when 1 can do all! if you check apple forum or even this forum you will notice most Qs about the Airport Extreme are Qs about "how can i connect it to my router" blah blah

Hey Apple! most of your users (at least in Europe and The Middle East) are connected to DSL connection, release an Airport Extreme or Time Capsule with built-in DSL modem....most of us will buy it.

i know ISPs will buy it from you to offer it to their customers.
Click to expand...

It's a horrible idea.
 
Our local ISP (Rogers) sells an all in one DOCSIS 3.0 router.

Presenting the craptacular 802.11n draft! SMC gateway with non Gigabit Ethernet (seriously awful router).
image.axd

Most folks that get them turn off the router function and it becomes little more than a large, hot, wired modem that needs a router.

To make matters worse Rogers does not offer a DOSCIC 3.0 stand alone modem nor is it easy / possible to get them to enable a third party modem.
 
It would be better if your internet provider could just give you an reliable ethernet connection ready to go with no modem at all but that ain't gonna happen, either.
 
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