ars technica on new glossy MBP: glossy outperforms

[the mac geek]

"In a properly light-controlled environment (without which there is zero point in talking about professional work), with all tech specs being equal, and with properly calibrated screens, a glossy LCD is going to outperform a matte one every time. This is particularly evident in the higher contrast a glossy screen provides, the deeper blacks are what give it the richer look people often comment on when first exposed to a glossy display. Like any consumer tech this can be abused and cranked up to impress people in stores, but no pro uses a screen the way it comes out of the box."

A second point of view from Dave Girard:
"I think that you can get a glossy screen that has deep blacks, accurate color and a wide gamut, so the problem really is just the glare. It's distracting and for someone like me, who's constantly retouching images and scouring images for dust (next to a window, no less). A glossy screen would make my work a nightmare of squinting and head-bobbing."

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/2008-macbookpro-review.ars/3

Discuss.

 

[photoGrant]

Wheey! 🙂 Finally the ignorance is put to rest. Hopefully people accept ars as a reputable source for this information.

 

[Hydroxs]

I don't know why professional would use TN screen to work on, which the mbp has. An IPS screen would provide better color reproduction.

 

[the mac geek]

I don't know why professional would use TN screen to work on, which the mbp has. An IPS screen would provide better color reproduction.

Exactly. You don't.

 

[MrJingles]

"In a properly light-controlled environment (without which there is zero point in talking about professional work), with all tech specs being equal, and with properly calibrated screens, a glossy LCD is going to outperform a matte one every time. This is particularly evident in the higher contrast a glossy screen provides, the deeper blacks are what give it the richer look people often comment on when first exposed to a glossy display. Like any consumer tech this can be abused and cranked up to impress people in stores, but no pro uses a screen the way it comes out of the box."

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/2008-macbookpro-review.ars/3

This is personally how I would define the new MBP screen as well.

Discuss.

Wow how about posting the OTHER professionals opinion from the SAME ARTICLE?

"Dave Girard on glossy vs. matte

I think that you can get a glossy screen that has deep blacks, accurate color and a wide gamut, so the problem really is just the glare. It's distracting and for someone like me, who's constantly retouching images and scouring images for dust (next to a window, no less). A glossy screen would make my work a nightmare of squinting and head-bobbing.

I do use an external monitor, but I need to work on the road, and sitting in a café during the day with one of the new machines would be really annoying. Apple should sell one of the new MacBooks with a handy black drape.

In other words, you can take my last-gen matte MacBook Pro from my cold, dead, hands!" [Wow, tell us how you really feel, Dave. --ed.] "

 

[Kane.Elson]

I love Ars! They have some of the best written and most meaningful articles on the net these days. I think if anyone is going to put this matte is so much better than glossy for pros idea out of action it would be Ars.

 

[goobimama]

People whine about glossy because they think they are supposed to whine about Glossy. When presented with either of them, they will willingly choose the Glossy one cause it looks so damn amazing.

 

[MrJingles]

I love Ars! They have some of the best written and most meaningful articles on the net these days. I think if anyone is going to put this matte is so much better than glossy for pros idea out of action it would be Ars.

Did you not read the above statement I posted? They had two pros: One liked it and one despised it. If you guys are going to 'quote' an article at least quote the whole thing, rather than spinning it to meet only your opinion.

Engadget also hated it the screen but loved the overall design/hardware, as I do.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/21/macbook-and-macbook-pro-review/

"The company is only offering these laptops with the high-gloss displays, and they are outrageously, ridiculously reflective. Using the laptop in a brightly lit room is actually rather annoying; the reflections are so intense that they can sometimes obscure on-screen activity. If you're in a scenario where you don't have total control over lighting, this could potentially be a nightmare. In daytime use we found the reflection terrifically distracting, though at night (or in dark rooms) the results were extraordinarily good. The results were a bit Jekyll and Hyde. Apple insists that consumers overwhelmingly love this option, and we don't doubt that it's impressive in a showroom or controlled environment, but we take serious issue with the lack of a non-gloss option, and found it intrusive enough to consider it nearly a deal-breaker."

 

[the mac geek]

Wow how about posting the OTHER professionals opinion from the SAME ARTICLE?

"Dave Girard on glossy vs. matte

I think that you can get a glossy screen that has deep blacks, accurate color and a wide gamut, so the problem really is just the glare. It's distracting and for someone like me, who's constantly retouching images and scouring images for dust (next to a window, no less). A glossy screen would make my work a nightmare of squinting and head-bobbing.

I do use an external monitor, but I need to work on the road, and sitting in a café during the day with one of the new machines would be really annoying. Apple should sell one of the new MacBooks with a handy black drape.

In other words, you can take my last-gen matte MacBook Pro from my cold, dead, hands!" [Wow, tell us how you really feel, Dave. --ed.] "

You are clearly capable of reading, so I did not post that one, the real reason I did not post it is because they say the same things. What Dave has said here is the same as what I posted, the glossy outperforms (you can get a glossy screen that has deep blacks, accurate color and a wide gamut), the only issue is reflections ("In a properly light-controlled environment").

The only difference is what point they emphasize, and Dave clearly emphasizes the reflections issue.

To address what you said above, my aim was not to post something to fit my viewpoint, in fact I didn't even make any point in my post. I merely posted a snippet from an article.

 

[MrJingles]

You are clearly capable of reading, so I did not post that one, the real reason I did not post it is because they say the same things. What Dave has said here is the same as what I posted, the glossy outperforms (you can get a glossy screen that has deep blacks, accurate color and a wide gamut), the only issue is reflections ("In a properly light-controlled environment").

The only difference is what point they emphasize, and Dave clearly emphasizes the reflections issue.

To address what you said above, my aim was not to post something to fit my viewpoint, in fact I didn't even make any point in my post. I merely posted a snippet from an article.

Common now you posted the part that agreed with your viewpoint and not the other viewpoint that yes the reflectiveness is an issue to people, even if not to you or 50% of the laptop consumer at large.

The only reason I put up a stink is that (yes I just dated myself) is the blind 'whatever they produce is infallible' mindset scares the #@*# out of me sometimes.

 

[the mac geek]

Common now you posted the part that agreed with your viewpoint and not the other viewpoint that yes the reflectiveness is an issue to people, even if not to you or 50% of the laptop consumer at large.

The only reason I put up a stink is that (yes I just dated myself) is the blind 'whatever they produce is infallible' mindset scares the #@*# out of me sometimes.

Are you going to continue to "put up a stink," despite the fact that I have stated that my intention was not to post anything that agreed with my viewpoint? Seems to me you are looking for a fight.

The fact is, I do not have a viewpoint as I do not have one in my possession. However, as I said, the two points of view are saying the same thing. The one I posted is saying that you need proper lighting conditions, while the other rails on the reflections you would get in a cafe (not proper lighting conditions.)

Furthermore, I don't think many people here are saying that reflections are not an issue, I haven't at least. And it is clear that they would be an issue in improper lighting conditions.

In other words, I did not post this because I wanted to refute the reflections issue. I posted this to refute the claim that a glossy screen cannot give you accurate colors. A point which both Dave and Aurich make quite clearly.

If you want to talk about reflections, I concede. Please move on now.

 

[840quadra]

I don't know why professional would use TN screen to work on, which the mbp has. An IPS screen would provide better color reproduction.

Exactly. You don't.

Well said. That is one of the key points missed by many crying out that the new glossy displays are bad for image work. While Matte is great for reducing glare, it doesn't counteract the effects of using TN technology to do critical image editing.

 

[MrJingles]

Are you going to continue to "put up a stink," despite the fact that I have stated that my intention was not to post anything that agreed with my viewpoint? Seems to me you are looking for a fight.

The fact is, I do not have a viewpoint as I do not have one in my possession. However, as I said, the two points of view are saying the same thing. The one I posted is saying that you need proper lighting conditions, while the other rails on the reflections you would get in a cafe (not proper lighting conditions.)

Furthermore, I don't think many people here are saying that reflections are not an issue, I haven't at least. And it is clear that they would be an issue in improper lighting conditions.

In other words, I did not post this because I wanted to refute the reflections issue. I posted this to refute the claim that a glossy screen cannot give you accurate colors. A point which both Dave and Aurich make quite clearly.

If you want to talk about reflections, I concede. Please move on now.

Hurrah I won! Err.. something! Okay I can apologize for being a snot so for that I'm sorry.

 

[ben.mcmahan]

"In a properly light-controlled environment (without which there is zero point in talking about professional work), with all tech specs being equal, and with properly calibrated screens, a glossy LCD is going to outperform a matte one every time."

I think the underlined part is probably pretty important. In essence, in an ideal setting, glossy is better(?). I rarely work in an ideal light environment, and i tend to suffer from headaches from eye strain regardless, so this argument is less compelling to me. I have no idea if matte is better for my eyes, but it's what i chose since i dont have the luxury of trying both side by side to figure it out.

This article seems to be a microcosm of the larger debate that rages on these threads every 1.64 days. Is anyone really convinced by these things?

They're both nice, and i suspect apple's decision was as much financial (gloss vs. matte option effectively doubles the size of the product line) as it was performance. Easier to offer 3 MBP's than 6....especially if glossy was more popular.

 

[Teej guy]

People whine about glossy because they think they are supposed to whine about Glossy. When presented with either of them, they will willingly choose the Glossy one cause it looks so damn amazing.

People that like glossy don't have to keep trying to prove it's better, come on you guys, the product you prefer is on the market and ready to be purchased, you're not even a part of this bloody discussion. You're not going to convert anybody, just enjoy your screens. We're still going to complain about glossy. My problem was never with colour, I'm an audio guy. I just can't stand the glare/reflections/mirror/etc

EDIT: Thanks to the thread starter for editing the post and putting the full set of quotes up there.