Art teacher in hot water over topless photos

[IJ Reilly]

I kind of suspected this sort of response would appear (and I'll be frank, especially from you ). You've guilefully evaded my question.

I can sympathize with both sides, but let's be fair here: there's a clear difference between whatever "immoral" things a child may come across on the internet or observe on television, radio or the movies and his discovery of nude photographs of his teacher. A teacher has a unique relationship with her adolescent student. How is this relationship affected by sharing nude photographs among one another? Is it reasonable to place certain constraints on a high school teacher's freedoms?

My answer was more direct than perhaps it appeared. My point is, if a parent is worried about their child seeing a nude photo of their teacher on the internet, they'd better unplug their household from it and just about every other form of media on the planet, because their children are bound to be exposed to far worse.

Everyone is in favor of "reasonable constraints," virtually by definition, and therein lay the problem. Nobody thinks the constraints they are trying to place on the personal lives of other people are unreasonable.

All of this makes me wonder if Michelangelo's models were shunned, if Ruben's paintings were banned. It makes me wonder about people I live amongst here in 2006 who'd turn the clock back, not just 100 years, not just 200 or 300 years, but to somewhere in the vicinity of the 14th century.

 

[aquajet]

I don't see any nudity whatsoever after having quickly skimmed THIS account.....all 30 pages of her photographs. Can someone just tell us the page number it's on, because I honestly don't see her nude.

I believe the original photos in question were deleted.

 

[aquajet]

My answer was more direct than perhaps it appeared. My point is, if a parent is worried about their child seeing a nude photo of their teacher on the internet, they'd better unplug their household from it and just about every other form of media on the planet, because their children are bound to be exposed to far worse.

Yeah, I got that part. But you still haven't answered my question. Nor have you addressed how a high school student's relationship among her teacher would be affected, either positively or negatively, by such photographs.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Yeah, I got that part. But you still haven't answered my question. Nor have you addressed how a high school student's relationship among her teacher would be affected, either positively or negatively, by such photographs.

That was my answer to all of your questions. It should be none of their bloody business. Just because some people decided to make it their business, doesn't mean they get to ruin this person's teaching career. I think it should be easy to see how easily this sort of thing can get out of control.

 

[aquajet]

That was my answer to all of your questions. It should be none of their bloody business. Just because some people decided to make it their business, doesn't mean they get to ruin this person's teaching career...

I'd still like to see a direct answer to my original open question. But I guess that's not going to happen.

My point being, nobody should expect complete, unfettered freedom of speech without consequences. You might think it's "none of their bloody business," but if a teenager happens upon his teacher's website with nude, publicly posted photographs and there are detrimental consequences to the relationship between student and teacher, we should examine if a teacher's right to post nude pictures of herself should trump a student's right to education. I see it as a "your rights end where mine begin" sort of thing.

 

[Josh]

I'd still like to see a direct answer to my original open question. But I guess that's not going to happen.

My point being, nobody should expect complete, unfettered freedom of speech without consequences. You might think it's "none of their bloody business," but if a teenager happens upon his teacher's website with nude, publicly posted photographs and there are detrimental consequences to the relationship between student and teacher, we should examine if a teacher's right to post nude pictures of herself should trump a student's right to education. I see it as a "your rights end where mine begin" sort of thing.

What I don't see is how finding a teacher's nude photos would "trump a student's [right to] education?"

What a teacher does privately and legally, in his/her own time is absolutely zero grounds for termination. Regardless of what puritan family feels it is not right.

If parents don't want their kids seeing certain things online, that is the parents' job to monitor what their children do - it isnt' anyone else job to avoid (legal, mind you) behaviors that reflect that.

If coming across personal photos of a teacher affects the relationship between that student and the teacher, that is the student and his/her parents' fault. Not being mature enough to realize that teacher's are real people that don't sleep in their desks is part of learning reality, which all chidren should be part of.

 

[Gasu E.]

"Whodja have for Art?"

"Miss Hooter heeheeheeheehee"

 

[Arnaud]

My point being, nobody should expect complete, unfettered freedom of speech without consequences. You might think it's "none of their bloody business," but if a teenager happens upon his teacher's website with nude, publicly posted photographs and there are detrimental consequences to the relationship between student and teacher, we should examine if a teacher's right to post nude pictures of herself should trump a student's right to education. I see it as a "your rights end where mine begin" sort of thing.

I see your point of view as a scary one. You tend to say that a teacher's private life goes after a pupil's life, because of all the possible consequences, and that all the actions of the teacher should be controlled in that view. On the other hand, the pupil does not have any of these obligations in his own life. I.e., the teacher becomes a slave of the pupil. Poor gratification for such a comitment.

I think on the other hand that the pupil should know that the teacher is a human being, and that there's a line between teacher at school and teacher home. That would be healthy for the kid.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I'd still like to see a direct answer to my original open question. But I guess that's not going to happen.

Like it or not, it was a direct answer. It's not the school board's job to ensure that every student is protected from every possible thing that every possible parent might believe to be inappropriate. It would not be their job, even if they could do it.

 

[aquajet]

I see your point of view as a scary one. You tend to say that a teacher's private life goes after a pupil's life, because of all the possible consequences, and that all the actions of the teacher should be controlled in that view. On the other hand, the pupil does not have any of these obligations in his own life. I.e., the teacher becomes a slave of the pupil. Poor gratification for such a comitment.

*sigh* Look, read my posts. What I'm saying is that we need to examine these questions before blindly granting someone freedoms to do whatever they want without consequences. That doesn't imply we should strip a teacher of all rights. I don't know how you could possibly arrive at that conclusion. We're discussing a very specific instance here. Please don't twist my comments into things they aren't.

 

[aquajet]

Like it or not, it was a direct answer.

No, it's not.

Would you be okay with your teenage child looking at nude photographs of his/her high school teacher?

Yes or no. My guess is you won't answer.

It's not the school board's job to ensure that every student is protected from every possible thing that every possible parent might believe to be inappropriate. It would not be their job, even if they could do it.

I understand your point, and for the most part, agree with you. Let's say a large majority of parents feel something is inappropriate (anything at all, you think of something). Would it still be wrong to terminate a teacher's employment? Is there room for any sort of compromise?

 

[emw]

Like it or not, when we take a job - just about any job - we take it with the understanding that we may need to sacrifice some amount of personal liberty to remain employed or to remain effective in our jobs. Teaching is no different, though I think it's more of a hot-button because it involves both "children" and the government.

Regardless of the intent this teacher may have had when she posted nude photographs of herself on the web, it probably would have been reasonable to assume that her students could happen across them - after all, they weren't on a "adult" site, that I know of - they were on myspace and/or flickr, both of which are readily and legally available to those who are under the age of consent. And if she really thought about it, she probably could have determined that someone would have seen them, would have gotten pissed about it, and she would end up in the situation in which she now finds herself. Was it illegal? No. Was it immoral? Not in my opinion. Was it poor judgement? Probably.

So the question becomes why did she do it? Perhaps all along she was wanting to make a statement - that the school board wouldn't dictate what she could or could not do.

Personally, I have no issue with the pictures (surprise, surprise), and additionally, I'd have no problem with my children seeing them. Nudity isn't bad. Nudity is natural. If someone loses respect or effectiveness solely because they're seen naked, they probably didn't have it to begin with.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Yes or no. My guess is you won't answer.

Good grief, no need to be antagonistic.

I thought I was being perfectly clear about this, but I guess not. No, I am not bothered by this in any way which would require a school board to dismiss a teacher over it. And once again, so there's no mistake about what I'm saying, if a parent is concerned about what their child may see on the internet, then they, not the school board, and not the teacher, must take responsibility to ensure that they don't see it.

 

[xsedrinam]

This would never happen in the UK.

Mostly because teachers here have generally hit every branch when falling from the ugly tree.

And nobody wants to see that.

Thank for the much needed laugh, bigandy.
Good to know you've kept abreast of things.

 

[aquajet]

Good grief, no need to be antagonistic.

I just wanted a straight answer, which I didn't feel you were giving, and which doesn't really have anything to do with a school board. Sorry for any offense.

 

[skunk]

Personally, I have no issue with the pictures (surprise, surprise), and additionally, I'd have no problem with my children seeing them. Nudity isn't bad. Nudity is natural. If someone loses respect or effectiveness solely because they're seen naked, they probably didn't have it to begin with.

I second that.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Thank for the much needed laugh, bigandy.
Good to know you've kept abreast of things.

No nudes is good nudes?

 

[xsedrinam]

No nudes is good nudes?

Only when they call her buff.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Only when they call her buff.

I think you may be ask skin too much.

 

[Electro Funk]

I think you may be ask skin too much.

lol... nice play on words... gave me a chuckle...

 

[Arnaud]

*sigh* Look, read my posts. What I'm saying is that we need to examine these questions before blindly granting someone freedoms to do whatever they want without consequences. That doesn't imply we should strip a teacher of all rights. I don't know how you could possibly arrive at that conclusion. We're discussing a very specific instance here. Please don't twist my comments into things they aren't.

Well, I did read your posts, and I'm still considering the "very specific instance". We do have all the facts in that case, we're not acting blindly.

As an individual, you are certainly entitled to write a book and publish it, with your own opinions, without your employer firing you - unless there was a clause in your contract (for not mentioning your field of work, for example) or you clearly attack your employer (for possible diffamation) -. You could also paint, take photos, sculpt, or express yourself in any other artistic manner, even posing naked if it suits you.

Now this teacher is an art teacher, I suspect she has a feeling for artistic expressions of her own (i.e., whether you agree with her style or not), but you've been repeating she should not express herself because of the possible "detrimental consequences" that you haven't been able to clearly explain.

When it comes to the relationship between teacher and student, it is clear that the teachers have to show an example in the school, and have to restrain themselves from inciting the students to immoral behaviour. Now, she hasn't done any of that.

It's not either as if she'd done immoral things, like child porn or incitation to violence. You see worse things anytime you switch the tv on, browse through a magazine or see ads in the street. Just google around for David La Chapelle, or any rapper's video, and then you tell me if what she does is worse, and worth the trouble. (NB: I do like some of the works of La Chapelle, I just say that they are not for kids).

We've obviously different opinions on the subject, and a different perception of the problem itself.

 

[emw]

lol... nice play on words... gave me a chuckle...

Don't encourage him - if it keeps up, this thread will be clothed.

 

[aquajet]

Don't encourage him...

Who exactly are you dressing?

 

[Electro Funk]

Don't encourage him - if it keeps up, this thread will be clothed.

for real? for a comment like that

if you are serious then i do apologize and will not feed the monkeys...


Edit... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... just realized you said clothed instead of closed....

you guys crack me up!!!

 

[aquajet]

We do have all the facts in that case, we're not acting blindly.

Well, actually, we don't have all the details. That's why I'm not really advocating any specific action, if any is really needed. I don't know. Just playing devil's advocate I guess.

As for Dave Chappelle, I think he's a comedic genius.