As an Apple lover, I'm so disappointed in Apple over the last year(s)

[groove-agent]

The problem I have with apple lately is the over-saturation of their products.

If you were to come in the store for a Macbook Pro, your options are:

13': With or without touchbar
15': Would you like the 2015 model which we still sell, or would you like the newest model without the touchbar or with the touchbar?

For the Macbooks:
We have the Macbook available in 3 different colors, but we also have another portable Macbook Air that is a couple generations old.

Then there's the iPads....

It's as if they have no direction. Many would argue this is because Steve is gone and Tim doesn't have the same passion or drive to steer the ship the way Steve did.

I agree with Q6's eloquent point. Apple was/ is closed-minded to two-in-ones because they just couldn't figure out how to pull it off, or because they wanted people to buy multiple devices. But Microsoft, of all companies figured it out. Because the surface runs a full OS, it can also be a laptop. With a docking station, it functions like a desktop. That is an excellent value as you don't have to buy multiple devices, with different apps all the while juggling between these devices.

This is my problem with Apple's line-up right now. MacBook Pros don't have the value they once had. I'm not referring to the two-in-one issue here. My gripe lies in the fact because you have to buy all this extra equipment (docking station, adapters, external drives) just to get it the same functionality your old MacBook Pro had and then charging an extra money for less functionality.

The aluminum Mac Pros were really expensive, but there were a dream machine with excellent value. They had all the ports, and you could add gobs of memory and hard drive space and PCI-e slots. Now all that stuff is soldered in with no expansion.

I've gained a lot of respect for Microsoft in recent years, and that surprises me. What has happened to Apple is saddening. In a way I knew it was coming after Steve left and that my 2012 cMBP would be my last mac of a long line of Apple purchases.

 

[mrex]

If people are confused about 6 different notebooks, lord help them if they walked into a PC World.

not really

if you need a desktop computer and walk into a store selling macpros, what do you expect to get? a desktop computer from 2013 with the price tag indicating computers today? if you are buying 15" mbp, there are two alternatives, the old one and the new one. they look almost the same and no huge difference between price tags (tempted to get the cheaper one now?):

this is the main difference when buying a "pc" and buying mac-something and this is why people are confused. they look almost identical devices but there is a huge difference between them - but you dont expect to see it when checking prices, the other one should be only abit slower, thats all. right?


when you buy win-something, the price indicates quite well what you get: a top end device or a budget device or the previous model. it is hard to find pretty old pc's from stores unlike finding old macs. you dont need help from lord, you just need a techsavvy friend when buying from apple if you dont want to be screwed.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

Urr $400 difference is a pretty huge price difference, one is labeled 'new'. Also yes the cheaper one will be slightly slow. And do you honestly think someone who doesn't have a clue about computers would walk into an Apple Store and grab a $3000 Mac Pro without doing any research or asking any questions?

Windows wise they have very inconsistent prices. Is it an ultrabook? Why is that ultrabook with lesser specs the same price as that one with better specs? Why does this one have 8GB of RAM and cost $500, whereas this one has the same and costs $1000? There are so many price points and technical differences, and the only thing people have to go on is the list of specs normally placed alongside it (2Ghz i3, 8GB RAM, 1TB HDD). But is an i3 any good? Do I need an i5? What's quad core? Honestly they are a confusing mess, I used to work in a store selling them and the average person is woefully confused by everything. When they look at Macs they automatically know they will be good because of the reputation. And compared to looking at 50 PC's with slightly differing specs, they found it much easier to look at 2.

Now that's not for everyone. But a lot of people who are buying MacBook Pro's for $2000 when you can buy a PC for $200 are probably either well aware of the specifications, or are buying it for reputation.

 

[mrex]

Urr $400 difference is a pretty huge price difference, one is labeled 'new'. Also yes the cheaper one will be slightly slow. And do you honestly think someone who doesn't have a clue about computers would walk into an Apple Store and grab a $3000 Mac Pro without doing any research or asking any questions?

slightly slower only??

1999 or 2399 - both are expensive, the price gap is way too small for the differences these two machines have.

Asking a question and understanding the answer are too differend thing. And yes, i know many people buy them just because it is macbook and they want to get macbook without knowing what they are actually buying. Many will buy the old one just to save 400 without understanding what is missing in the package. Selling it to a customer for that price is like stealing a candy from a kid.

And what excatly "new" means in apple marketing? Better than the old one? Same as the old one? Worse than the old one? (Compare air2 and new ipad for example.) sometimes "new" means just a new product in a store, sometimes it is part of the name and sometimes... it doesnt mean any rational thing.

Nowadays when you see "new" or "pro" in apple products, you need keep your eyes open.

 

[Abazigal]

The problem I have with apple lately is the over-saturation of their products.

If you were to come in the store for a Macbook Pro, your options are:

13': With or without touchbar
15': Would you like the 2015 model which we still sell, or would you like the newest model without the touchbar or with the touchbar?

For the Macbooks:
We have the Macbook available in 3 different colors, but we also have another portable Macbook Air that is a couple generations old.

Then there's the iPads....

I think it's inevitable as Apple grows. Given their size, Apple now caters to a far larger audience and can no longer get by just by offering the same pared down options as they did many years ago.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

slightly slower only??

Yes, there's about a 20% speed increase, and about a 20% price increase. I don't see the problem? It's not like the 2015 model was a staunching brick in the first place is it?

 

[OneSon]

Apple's line of Macbook products and update frequency seems all over the place to me at the moment. It's chaotic, reactive and lacks direction.

5-6 years ago it made perfect sense. The Air was a lightweight, portable machine mostly for consumers; the MBP was a more powerful but still portable machine, and the iMac was the desktop option.

I look now and it's a mess. The Air is still hanging around because despite Apple trying to phase it out in order to sell their more expensive 'Macbook' people still buy the Air. The Macbook is, imo, a disaster of a machine. The new MBPs are a joke and I now see Apple trying to sell the Ipad Pro as a laptop replacement. It's all over the place.

 

[mrex]

Yes, there's about a 20% speed increase, and about a 20% price increase. I don't see the problem? It's not like the 2015 model was a staunching brick in the first place is it?

I think you are mixing those 15" models. The old one ($1999) is from 2015 with iris pro and broadwell. And if your 20% faster is from here it is 2016/2017 comparison.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

I think you are mixing those 15" models. The old one ($1999) is from 2015 with iris pro and broadwell. And if your 20% faster is from here it is 2016/2017 comparison.

Nope was just a rough estimate. How much faster do you think the $2399 model is than the $1999?

All I'm saying is there really isn't that much difference in real world usage. If A is 100% power and B is 120% power, most people will still operate them at 50% most of the time. The speed improvements largely dictate CPU intensive tasks, such as rendering. In which case you're saving minutes off every hour. Which yes as I said is faster, but it is never dramatic.

There's obviously other improvements such as SSD speeds and such, which all adds up to a faster machine of course. Which is why the newer ones are more expensive than older. Iterative updates are not night and day, it's not like they've gone from 64bit computing to Quantum computing, they add a few extra feature. Unless you sit with both models doing the same tasks all day you are unlikely to notice any difference, whereas people may notice the $400 and port option difference.

Of course if you want the latest and greatest you get the latest and greatest, but that's not to say the 2015 model isn't already a highly capable machine and a completely viable option for a number of people. Computing power has far exceeded software requirements for about 10 years now, which is why companies such as Intel are working on efficiency as mainstream computer tasks don't need the power on offer. It took years after dual core processors came out for software makers to make use of them. And that's why a chip made in 2013 is still perfectly capable, whilst a lot more affordable. Very few professions make use of 100% of the processing power. But that's getting a bit into it, I'm just saying compared to say 20 years ago where each new chip felt like a major breakthrough, it just isn't the case anymore and the market is stagnating and so these days it's about increasing efficiency, power usage, or adding hardware features. So even a 2 year old chip isn't that much different from one today.

 

[mrex]

it is not the question of "the latest and greatest" but it is question of the price. would you buy mbp 15" (2015) for the price 1999 when you get a computer with a dgpu, better ram/ssd/everything for 2399? just 400 more...

all im saying that, today, no one should pay 1999 for macbook pro 15" (mid 2015) that apple is still selling...

 

[Queen6]

This mirrors my feeling, with the Mac now generally representing poor value, in combination with the removal of relevant features. Given the MBP's premium nature I am not willing to complicate my workflow, fundamentally paying a higher asking price, for a level of inconvenience that never existed previously, or certainly not to such an extent, nor will it go away anytime soon.

As much as I consider the purchase of a high tier 15" MBP the "Red Flags" immediately show; I will need to rely on additional devices, adaptors & dongles to perform tasks that previously had no such requirement, the need to carry them literally globally. Add in the fact that I already have experience and know that even Apple's own dongles & adaptors are not 100% reliable (25 months rMB employed in a professional role).

Apple these days is also completely inconsistent, MBP's effectively neutered by the inclusion of USB C only and diminished battery capacities, yet Apple retains USB A & SD Card slot for the 2017 iMac's including the upcoming iMac Pro. 2016 MBP is without any doubts in my mind a victim of form over function. All notebooks are compromised by their very nature, as others have stated the 2016 MBP is now more than ever aimed at the well heeled consumer, which is fine, equally it has also alienated a good number of it's professional users. Apple looking more and more to have drifted from being visionary to being reactionary.

Q-6

It's as if they have no direction. Many would argue this is because Steve is gone and Tim doesn't have the same passion or drive to steer the ship the way Steve did.

I agree with Q6's eloquent point. Apple was/ is closed-minded to two-in-ones because they just couldn't figure out how to pull it off, or because they wanted people to buy multiple devices. But Microsoft, of all companies figured it out. Because the surface runs a full OS, it can also be a laptop. With a docking station, it functions like a desktop. That is an excellent value as you don't have to buy multiple devices, with different apps all the while juggling between these devices.

This is my problem with Apple's line-up right now. MacBook Pros don't have the value they once had. I'm not referring to the two-in-one issue here. My gripe lies in the fact because you have to buy all this extra equipment (docking station, adapters, external drives) just to get it the same functionality your old MacBook Pro had and then charging an extra money for less functionality.

The aluminum Mac Pros were really expensive, but there were a dream machine with excellent value. They had all the ports, and you could add gobs of memory and hard drive space and PCI-e slots. Now all that stuff is soldered in with no expansion.

I've gained a lot of respect for Microsoft in recent years, and that surprises me. What has happened to Apple is saddening. In a way I knew it was coming after Steve left and that my 2012 cMBP would be my last mac of a long line of Apple purchases.