asthma the natural way

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by Corrosive vinyl, Jul 13, 2007.

  1. Corrosive vinyl macrumors 6502

    Corrosive vinyl

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    #1
    http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web2/arima.html * I found this article relating asthma to a buildup of calcium and not enough cAMP by adding cAMP it stimulates another protein-kinase!!

    *
    http://www.pubmedcentral.nih .gov:80/articlerender.fcgi?artid=302226 *Using this information I found a link between asthma and lowered cAMP response in the lungs and bronchial tubes.

    *
    http://www.advance-health.com /coleus.html *
    http://www.vitacost.com/Healthnotes/Herb-Drugix/Coleus.aspx
    I found that coleus forskolii helps encourage cAMP, therefore helping with asthma

    http://www.homeopathiclaborator ies.com/articles/cellsaltchart.pdf

    *
    my notes:

    *chemical formulas:
    salmeterol xinafoate: *C13 H21 NO3
    Norepinephrine: *C8 H11 NO3
    epinephrine: *C9 H13 NO3

    cyclic Adenosine Monophosphate (cAMP)
    ** * -coleus forskolii, an ayurvedec herb
    ** * * * *-increases
    ** * -regulated by epinephrine
    ** * -asthmatics have decrease in cAMP response

    *
    B2 Receptors (Adrenergic receptors)
    ** * -significant decrease in mononuclear and polymorphonuclear leukocyte beta adrenergic * * * * * * *receptor density
    ** * -Looking for B2 adrenergic receptor agonists

    *
    Adenylate cyclase (AC)
    ** * -transmembrane protein
    ** * -important parts of its function located in cytoplasm

    *
    How it Works
    ** * 1. Beta adrenergic receptor by epinephrine; Gs activated
    ** * 2. Gs alpha will stimulate adenyl cyclase (AC) to make cAMP
    ** * 3. cAMP activates cAMP dependent kinase (PKA)
    ** * 4. Phosphorylate serine and theonine residues on beta adrenergic receptor kinase (BARK)

    *
    I also bought this book called 'The Biochemic Handbook: How to get well and keep fit with biochemic tissue salts'

    *
    Using the book I found out that*
    1. Iron*phosphate takes air inhaled by the lungs and carries it to the blood stream. *it is also listed under heartburn and says congestion, inflammatory pain, high temperature, quickened pulse all call for more oxygen. it is iron phosphate which is the medium through which oxygen is taken up by the blood stream and carried to the affected area.
    2.*Potassium*sulfate moves the oxygen from the blood stream to the tissue cells
    3. Soduim phosphate is an acid neutralizer and used for proper function of the digestive organs... *an inactive ingredient in TUMS is sodium polyphosphste!!! *The problem is that the active ingredient is calcium carbonate.
    *
    Can you help me with this information and find a homeopathic way to treat asthma? *Any other information regarding or relating to my research would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    #2
    Are you spamming or having a manic episode? :eek:

    What kind of asthma triggers do you have? What have you done to manage them?
     
  3. FJ218700 macrumors 68000

    FJ218700

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Location:
    Blue Dot, Red State
    #3
    cAMP is a signalling molecule for dozens of cascades.

    don't try to increase your cellular cAMP levels, asthma will be the least of your problems.

    your last points confuse me. O2 diffuses from the air across down its concentation gradient across the epithelium of the alveioli and into the capillary beds. It is then bound, still in its ground state to heme within erythrocytes where it is carried to tissues.
     
  4. Corrosive vinyl thread starter macrumors 6502

    Corrosive vinyl

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    #4
    i am serious...

    right now I am trying to get someone off of advair (a mixture of fluctonase, a corticosteroid, and salmeterol)... I found some info, but can't find a way to utilize the information...

    she is alergic to mold, eggs, cats, hay, and possibly flour, sneezes whenever she makes pancakes. to manage these she is also taking singular which according to her does absolutely nothing!

    what would increasing the cAMP do besides what I think it might do? I have some forskolin pills but haven't used any yet.

    Effects of Coleus on Cyclic AMP

    Increased cellular cyclic AMP results in inhibition of platelet activation, decreased likelihood of blood clots, reduced release of histamine, decreased allergy symptoms, increased force of contraction of the heart, relaxation of the arteries and other smooth muscles, increased thyroid function, increased fat metabolism, increased energy and possibly weight loss. Cyclic AMP and the chemicals it activates comprise a second messenger system that is responsible for carrying out the complex and powerful effects of hormones in the body.

    In addition, asthma, eczema, psoriasis, angina, obesity and hypertension are believed to be associated with decreased Cyclic AMP.

    I was confused about how that whole thing with how cyclic AMP worked, sorry for confusing points. I know relatively nothing about medical stuff, but am trying to get help through a nurse, and a few herbatologists.
     
  5. FJ218700 macrumors 68000

    FJ218700

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Location:
    Blue Dot, Red State
    #5
    seeing as how most asthma is a genetic, autoimmune disease, all you can really do is suppress the inflammatory response with steroids. Over 500 million dollars is allocated for allergy research in the US every year, if there was a simple remedy, it would be established.
     
  6. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    #6
  7. Corrosive vinyl thread starter macrumors 6502

    Corrosive vinyl

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    #7
    All I want is a natural way to help reduce the inflammation of asthma.... AND BOTH OF US DON'T WANT HER TAKING STEROIDS ANYMORE!!! she has read of side effects of the same steroid she is taking and SHE HAS SOME SIDE EFFECTS associated with that exact medication. Most people in the medical field will fluff it off and say it is impossible because they want more money. use this thing which might be harmful to you because it IS THE ONLY WAY! thank you for helping us. She went in to see the doctor to get liquid albuterol and came out with an allergy prescription and no liquid albuterol. All I want is an alternative thing which does the same or nearly the same thing as the salmeterol without steroids... did you know that there might be a possibility that steroids could leak into breast milk... I don't know about you... but I don't want to take the chance.
     
  8. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    #8
    This is why I asked if you're manic...calm down! The links I posted include multiple randomized trials of homeopathy for asthma... go read them. Not just for efficacy (since you don't want to believe that anyway), but also for methodology for what homeopathic interventions for asthma look like....
     
  9. GoCubsGo macrumors Nehalem

    GoCubsGo

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    #9
    Advair saved my life. Before that I was inhaler dependent and it's saved me. I can understand different beliefs but if your friend is on it and it works then why mess with that? Do you have asthma? I didn't read your manic post but if you don't I cannot even begin to explain what it feels like when there is an attack. If Advair can prevent this almost entirely then I am all for it. The fear that comes with an attack in me is enough to keep me on it.
     
  10. echeck macrumors 68000

    echeck

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Location:
    Boise, Idaho
    #10
    I'm the exact same. I take my Advair once every night before I go to bed, and if I don't take it even just one day I find myself having to use my inhaler much more frequently.

    Advair is a Godsend, if you ask me. My life is SO much better when I'm taking this stuff.

    I once went two weeks without using it because I was switching insurance providers and had a two week gap of coverage. My life was hell, and that's how I was every day before I started taking it. I'll take this stuff for the rest of my life if I have to as long as I can prevent going back to my old life.
     
  11. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Location:
    The Mergui Archipelago
    #11
    Sounds like you're having a hard time with your partner's asthma corrosive vinyl. My suggestion would be if you're both unhappy with your doctor's treatment then you should seek out a new one, or even ask to see a respiratory specialist (if you haven't already) who will be more knowledgeable and understand the treatments in more detail. As mkrishnan posted above there is no evidence that homeopathy has any efficacy in asthma, so it's really not worth risking you partners life. There are other ways to get around the steroid problem which would be a far better place to start.

    The treatment of asthma is based on one main thing - the severity of the condition. If you partner had mild or intermittent asthma, she would have been given a short-acting 'rescue' β2-agonist like albuterol, which relax the smooth muscle in the airways helping you breath. These are great as they have very few reported side effects and are very short-acting.

    Unfortunately it sounds like your partner has a mild/moderate persistant form of asthma. In this case you need to treat both the acute effects of constriction of the airways causing an asthma attack (i.e. β2-agonists), but you also need a long term 'controller' like advair which is a mixture of a long lasting β2-agonist (to prevent/reduce asthma attacks) and a steroid (to reduce inflammation).

    In moderate to severe asthmatics inflammation is caused by special white blood cells (mainly mast cells and eosinophils) that release allergic mediators. These cells aren't meant to be in the airways in the numbers they are in asthmatics, and they ultimately cause irreversible and progressive damage to the lungs. This is most likely why your doctor wasn't keen to switch your partner onto albuterol alone, as her lungs would have continued to be damaged which ultimately won't help her asthma. Steroids are great at calming down the immune response, but they can have unacceptable side effects in some people like your partner.

    The bad news is there is currently nothing available to replace steroids, although the good news is that the side effects can usually be overcome by altering the dose/type of steroid - it's a trade off with the alleviation of the asthma though.

    Again I'd really suggest you go and see a respiratory specialist if you can, and especially one you've a good rapport with and can ask lots of questions. It's really not safe to self-medicate as there are many cross reactions between drugs and also many tests results that can only be carried out and interpreted with lots of experience. There's also new drugs and treatment options coming out all the time which you partner might benefit from. Certainly don't base your treatments on anecdotal medical advice posted on the internet - but do use suggestions as a source of questions to ask. Even write down a list (like the one you have in the first post) and take them into the doctor with you to ask their opinion. They really won't mind (and if they do take you patronage elsewhere).

    Good luck :).
     
  12. Phat Elvis macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Location:
    Phila, PA
    #12
    OK, I'm going to take a different approach to this:

    Don't go see an asthma specialist. You have already made up your mind so why would you waste their time? You were upset that they wouldn't give your friend albuterol syrup - a medicine that does not work as well as inhaled, has many more side effects, and should be off the market. You are insistent on not using inhaled steroids. You are equally insistent on using herbal therapies. You also have a mistrust of doctors since you seem to think that they get paid per script. Don't waste their time.

    Wow, that was refreshing. Actually you two really should see someone but it should be someone that you trust. Talk to your friends and go to a doctor (not an herbalist) that your friends like.

    While you're at it, find a nice cell biologist to share your thoughts with...
     
  13. Vuzie macrumors regular

    Vuzie

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Location:
    Maryland
    #13
    Grrr.. :mad: another example of people that aren't trained to read (and properly interpret) scientific literature go finding papers they want and completely misinterpreting the data. Here's a hint. You're better off taking that paper to your doctor (or other scientifically minded professional) to discuss the implications of treatment you propose....

    p.s. if you look you'll also find a paper that contradicts the references cited here.
     
  14. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Location:
    Jobs' Spare Liver Jar
    #14
    I saw bad side effects and dubious efficacy from salmeterol, but fluticasone has been a lifesaver.

    I've also come into contact with the negative aspects of some of the health community where I was steered very heavily back to Serevent despite my explicit warnings about previous experiences. I stood my ground, won the day and very quickly got out of that HMO.

    The key to effective treatment is finding a competent and honest specialist, getting a plan and sticking to it.
    What you don't want to do is start ruling out entire classes of drugs based on bad experiences with one specific formula. After all, salmeterol is the same general class of drug as albuterol, another regular, safe and effective medication I take.
     
  15. QuarterSwede macrumors G3

    QuarterSwede

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Location:
    Colorado Springs, CO
    #15
    I agree. Ex. I'm highly allergic to Prednisone but I can take a derivative, Methylprednisolone, with no problems (yes it's a steroid). In fact, it's saved my life several times. To me, it's a miracle drug. But the point is, just because one form isn't working doesn't mean the entire class won't.
     
  16. wmmk macrumors 68020

    wmmk

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Location:
    The Library.
    #16
    Yeah, I agree.

    Furthermore, dsfihbasdifhborqwbjas vblsalfnirbfgihrw.

    Thanks you, good night, and God bless America.:rolleyes:
     
  17. *Y* macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Location:
    VA
    #17
    All right you can believe this or not but here it goes....
    I used to have asthma as well, granted it wasn't a very bad form of it yet. However I was taking medications and use an inhaler. I also had allergies and took claritin every day, and that was the prescription kind with one little tablet costing 3 dollars each. Then we went to see this guy that specialized in message and herbs. He massages my muscles in the back, did sauna treatments with herbs and we also did full body wet herb compressse. Futhermore I also started to splashing myself with cold water after shower. All in al,l the asthma was gone in about a couple months. Yes it took a while, but it was definitely worth the time and the effort. I am now more than 3 or 4 years asthma free. I love it.
     

Share This Page