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Asus just launched their 13.3" notebooks. They are also building the new iBook.
- Thread starter nylon
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Wow, if they can fit this stuff into a laptop that size then surely Apple have to do the same!! They can't just kill off the small sized pro laptops, people love them!
ManchesterTrix said:
A casual 2D gamer, yes.
A casual 3D gamer, no.
You're calling for a step back in Apple design. They currently have REAL graphics cards in 12" laptops. They could put a REAL graphics card in 13.3" notebooks as well.
Capt Underpants said:
I'm not calling for anything, I'm pretty indifferent, but you can play more than just 2D games with integrated graphics. And the current 12" laptops have ****** graphics cards in them, with the only advantage being dedicated VRAM.
ManchesterTrix said:
the cards in both the 15 month old 12" PB and 10 month old 12" ibook are both better than this integrated crap. Those cards may be old, and may have been mediocre when they were first put in the 12" models, but they're STILL better than integrated.
Integrated is awful, and don't believe any hype that says otherwise.
QCassidy352 said:
I don't believe hype, I believe experience.
And the Radeon 9200 is better than the GMA950? Since we're talking about how video relates to gaming how is that 9200 on DX9 support? Oh right, it doesn't.
ManchesterTrix said:
Do you remember when Apple was bashing intel integrated graphics on their mac mini page, because I do...
Capt Underpants said:
Right. And? What does Apple's marketing have to do with the reality that integrated graphics arn't the worst thing since the Black Death?
ManchesterTrix said:
My point all along is the the GMA 950 cannot handle casual 3D gaming. I would consider HL2 at 800x600 with high quality settings (but no AA/AF, and no HDR) to be casual gaming. Here are the benchmarks.
From their conclusion:
Capt Underpants said:
20 frames per second at high quality what about medium. Perfectly playable. WoW is playable on a 950. I'd say that constitutes handling casual gaming.
Right now, I don't even care if it has intergrated video anymore. I probably won't even put Boot Camp on it. I just want a system with a fast Core Duo and a big hard drive. 
mmmcheese said:
The xbox actually had a dedicated graphics processor (designed by nvidia, 233 MHz, 64 MB VRAM), but that's neither here nor there.
Capt Underpants said:
Actually, it's northbridge and graphics combined....just like the nforce chipsets (that had graphics built in).
Sure, the graphics core was different than the nforce, but he's painting a brush that all integrated graphics/shared memory is bad....well, obviously not.
Integrated graphics have come a long way. Does anyone remember back in the day when you'd be insane to rely on on-board audio (on a PC)? The majority of people don't even upgrade their audio anymore because the built in audio is good enough now....integrated graphics is catching up. It has caught up to the entry-level graphics card category, and that's really all that the mini (and likely the Macbook) is designed for. It's made for people who use their machines for web/productivity/"lifestyle" (iLife type things)...if you do more than this, then it's not the right product for you, and you should consider the pro line....
The full specs are on Asus' site: http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=2&model=1142&l1=5&l2=75&l3=0
Intel® Core™ Duo Processor T2300/T2400/T2500/T2600: 1.60GHz-2.16GHz, 2MB On-Die L2 Cache, 667 MHz
Mobile Intel 945 PM Express Chipset
DDR2 533 MHz 512 MB DRAM, 1x SO-DIMM socket expandable to 1536MB
13.3” wide XGA LCD
NVidia GeForce Go7400 with 128MB DDR2
60 / 80 / 80 / 100 / 120 GB supported,
2.5” 9.5mm SATA supported
DVD Super Multi Drive
4-in-1 SD/MMC/MS/MS PRO
1.3 Mega- pixels video camera
Integrated 802.11a/b/g
Built-in Bluetooth® V2.0+EDR
Battery Pack & Life: 6-cell: 4800mAh, 53 Whrs; 9-cell: 7800MAh, 80Whrs
315 x 226.5 x 29~36.9mm (W x D x H)
Under 1.95 Kg (6-cell battery pack)
I wonder what price that base model starts at? Just too bad it can't go up to 2 GB RAM.
If they bring these to Europe, I'd have something very nice to compare those against... While not forgetting that even the base model is likely in a higher price category than the Macbooks.
Intel® Core™ Duo Processor T2300/T2400/T2500/T2600: 1.60GHz-2.16GHz, 2MB On-Die L2 Cache, 667 MHz
Mobile Intel 945 PM Express Chipset
DDR2 533 MHz 512 MB DRAM, 1x SO-DIMM socket expandable to 1536MB
13.3” wide XGA LCD
NVidia GeForce Go7400 with 128MB DDR2
60 / 80 / 80 / 100 / 120 GB supported,
2.5” 9.5mm SATA supported
DVD Super Multi Drive
4-in-1 SD/MMC/MS/MS PRO
1.3 Mega- pixels video camera
Integrated 802.11a/b/g
Built-in Bluetooth® V2.0+EDR
Battery Pack & Life: 6-cell: 4800mAh, 53 Whrs; 9-cell: 7800MAh, 80Whrs
315 x 226.5 x 29~36.9mm (W x D x H)
Under 1.95 Kg (6-cell battery pack)
I wonder what price that base model starts at? Just too bad it can't go up to 2 GB RAM.
If they bring these to Europe, I'd have something very nice to compare those against... While not forgetting that even the base model is likely in a higher price category than the Macbooks.
mmmcheese said:
That is precisely my problem. If Apple is going to eliminate the 12" Pro laptop, they need to replace is with a laptop that will please those ex-12" Powerbook users. Integrated graphics are not acceptable in those cases. Sure the iBook users will be satisfied, but for the people who want a little more graphics power, Apple needs to include a dedicated graphics option.
Not all power users want a 15" or 17" form factor.
I'm quite happy with the GMA950 in my mini for a bit of WoW gaming, however, if I were buying a new small form factor laptop, which I will hopefully be doing at some point in the future, I'd want a decent graphics chip in there. I've got a PC to play games on at home when I want to but if its a bit inpractical to lug around two laptops at once!!
Capt Underpants said:
Well, we don't know what they have up their sleeve. I like the small form factor as well, but I had to weigh my options and pick what requirements were the most important and sacrifice the rest. I went with the 15" MBP (from a 12" iBook). I was worried that the size would be too much, but in the end it turned out that the weight (most important to me), is so close, that I find it just as portable. I prefer dedicated graphics as well, but I don't rule out integrated either (it works quite well).
There will likely never be the perfect machine for everyone...so people just have to pick the best fit for their needs.
This debate is kind of dumb though, since we don't have all the products to compare. For all we know, apple will release a bunch of products and everyone will be happy.
ManchesterTrix said:
First, the Radeon 9200 does play 3d games better than the GMA950, though the 950 is superior in other ways.
Second, who's talking about the Radeon 9200? I said the chips in the current 12" laptops -- the Radeon 9550 and the geforce 5200go -- not what was in the mac mini. And yes, those two chips are both considerably better than the GMA950 despite being low-end cards from 1-2 years ago.
ManchesterTrix said:
In a FPS, frames are everything. When I'm sniping, I can feel the difference between 30 and 35 FPS. HL2 (for me, at least) is not playable if it's below 35 FPS. I seriously doubt that lowering a quality setting is going to up the framerates by 70%. This GMA950 is not an acceptable graphics processor for HL2. Plain and simple.
Ordering 13" blk tomorrow
Yes..I too am very concerned about the gma950. I play WOW daily at home on my gaming rig and I am hoping that I can do some casual playing on the macbook. I am buying this thing because its the smallest sexist notebook I have ever laid my eyes on. I will be using it for Digital Photography (storing and editing images in the field, DVD playback and of course ILIFE!! LOL This will be my first Apple. After all these years I can finally give the finger to the Dark Lord Mr. Gates. I have been using windows for many years and I can honestly say that OSX Rocks and puts microshaft to shame. After evaluating Vista, I wouldnt crap in microsoft's bathroom.
Yes..I too am very concerned about the gma950. I play WOW daily at home on my gaming rig and I am hoping that I can do some casual playing on the macbook. I am buying this thing because its the smallest sexist notebook I have ever laid my eyes on. I will be using it for Digital Photography (storing and editing images in the field, DVD playback and of course ILIFE!! LOL This will be my first Apple. After all these years I can finally give the finger to the Dark Lord Mr. Gates. I have been using windows for many years and I can honestly say that OSX Rocks and puts microshaft to shame. After evaluating Vista, I wouldnt crap in microsoft's bathroom.
WRONG!QCassidy352 said:
At least you are about the GFX card in the 12" PowerBook. The GeForce Go FX5200 is a piece of crap. The GMA950 beats it hands down in benchmarking.
Here is an example BTW:
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=8836
In that test The GeForce Go FX5200 didn't even beat the Mobile version of the ATI9200.