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The "greed" comments are silly. The purpose of a corporation is to make money. If it isn't your company's mission, you're failing as a CEO or a Director.

The problem is this: AT&T, like most telcos, doesn't accept that the Internet has commoditized it. Bandwidth is now a commodity, just like oil, gas, gold, etc. This necessarily drives the price down, and takes those expensive services (like SMS, telco service) away from the carrier and places them in the hands of third parties.
 
Glad I never had their cell service, this makes me regret getting their home phone and internet. That and them forcing me to get their uverse instead of regular phone and dsl, then not even telling me it has a data cap as well.
 
This is business. That's how it works.
Just because you've worked out a way to operate and extract money from people, doesn't mean you have a God-given right to that business.
If (and when) another business disrupts yours, you will put into practice your well thought out strategy to deal with it, and you will be able to adapt because your business has been grown on a solid financial base.
If you aren't able to do this, you haven't been running your business properly.

Completely true. This is America, and this is a capitalist economy. All companies should be allowed to succeed and fail on their own terms. No company is guaranteed everlasting life. You adapt or you die. If disruptive technology weakens your business model, you adapt. If a change in markets affects your bottom line, you adapt.
 
Strange thing in the US is, that you have to pay for INCOMMING calls, something not known in the rest of the world. Why should I pay for someone trying to sell me insurance? That is a real ripoff in my eyes.

This has more to do with historical precedent in the US.

Most of the US has unlimited "local" calling: i.e. your municipality, and perhaps the nearby towns. If I picked up the phone and call my neighbor, or my office, or a local business, I could talk all day and pay the same price as if I didn't make any calls at all.

There are a few places that offered local metered calling (1-2 cents/minute), but it was an optional plan, and the fixed monthly cost wasn't that much lower than an unlimited local calling plan.

In Europe, you pay a per-minute fee. And if you call a mobile phone, the per-minute fee is increased, so that the airtime cost is assessed to the caller. In order to do that in the US, the call would have to be treated as a "toll" call, or what people under a certain age know as a "long-distance" call.

In many states, you must dial a "toll" call separately: i.e. you must preface the called number with a "1". The state's Public Utilities Commission prohibits any charge for the call unless the number is prefaced with a "1". So, to charge the airtime for calling a mobile phone to a land-line caller would have required the caller make a "long-distance" call.

Faced with this dilemma, mobile phone companies in the US (which were largely the incumbent land-line phone companies) chose to charge both incoming and outgoing airtime to the mobile user. Making a call to every mobile phone a "long-distance" call would have created a significant cultural barrier to mobile phone adoption.

It is mitigated somewhat by the fact that most telemarketing to mobile phones is prohibited. Actually, the law prohibits automated dialing or pre-recorded messages -- which is how most telemarketing is done in the US these days.
 
What a complainer

I think the only regret should be eliminating unlimited data plans. What a dumb thing for ATT to do... Hello Sprint!

ATT is making billions in profit, and there's nothing wrong with that, until the CEO starts bellyaching about threats to their business model.

Dude, if you're worried about your business model, that's an indication that you need to change it - and then you can sleep well at night again.

iMessage isn't a threat to your business model. In fact, it helps you: 1. Because you dropped all your messaging plans and now have only two choices - all or nothing, so you've already negated any benefit iMessage had for consumers, and 2. If text messages don't have to run through your messaging system, you just reduced the load on your system and the need for as many messaging servers, which reduces your costs. So stop whining.

When is ATT (and others) going to learn that the future is 100% data? Start migrating your services now. Reduce the cost of "calling" plans, and increase the cost of "data" plans, such that the customer's total bill remains unchanged, or is slightly lower...

You need to work toward simplifying your network & plans - in the not too distant future, you will all become nothing more than wireless ISPs. Better get prepared or prepare to fail.
 
Well, he's right.
Would you think different if it was your company?

he's not right. While it does cost more on the back end with more servers, it's not as bad as he's pretending - especially when they send out the message that "99% of our users don't even use 2GB a month" etc that they try to push. If that's the case, then unlimited data can't be an issue. It either isn't an issue, or AT&T are liars with how much data people actually use, so they can try to justify not offering unlimited.
 
Can you give evidence to backup your claim that Apple always price gouges? I mean, it isn't like there is evidence that the iPad margins are falling. Or that Apple's operating margins are not that out of control compared to other tech companies.

Seriously, where did this meme that Apple is price gouging come from? Is it the $1000 base price for the iPad? Oh wait, that was a rumor that was false (and later it was shown that Android device makers struggled to match the price). Was it the $100 base price for iCloud? Oh wait, that was MobileMe. The only point I can find is that Apple has a lot of cash on hand that they use to help them control the components market, apparently.

Seriously, where did I reference a meme that Apple is price gouging? Also, I don't think you know what the definition of a meme is, because you used it pretty incorrectly.

Apple products have a higher markup than damn near every other product on the market, which is why it's impossible for retailers to put them on sale... they can't, they have almost no profit margin on them because Apple sells them so near MSRP.
 
Love you fanboy guys. Apple making huge profit margin = GREAT. ATT&T making small profit margin = EVIL. :rolleyes:

Apple making unique pleasing products = GREAT.
AT&T providing a commodity (telecom access) with lousy customer service = EVIL.
 
They've been throttling my home, phone and iPad connections, and I'm ditching them for good:

I switched to Verizon (who lets you pay for more data - take a hint AT&T...) for my new iPad, will switch to Sprint for the next iPhone, and looking at options to switch broadband.

AT&T - where we love to have an adversarial relationship with our customers.
 
The funny thing is that if they didn't have so many people still on the 'unlimited' plans, a LOT more of those customers would be with Sprint or Verizon by now.

Whatever. This guy is a douchebag.
 
the point youre trying to make is ridiculous. what your saying is that those of us who payed for unlimited data and texts, shouldnt expect unlimited data and texts. thats like saying im going to an all you can eat buffet, but after my first plate im limited on what i can have. thats not what i payed for, and bought into their system for. its not my problem to worry about the carrier or other people on the network. the carrier should have expected that some people would take the unlimited to an extreme, while others would barely use it, its on them if they didnt. again, if their network cant handle it (which it can, its a ploy that the big two cant), its on them to upgrade their network.
^^^^^
This is the the reason the USA cannot have unlimited mobile data: the immature, entitlement-fueled, mentality of a growing percentage of the population.

The problem is those of us who are "average" data users refuse to pay a price that would be high enough to subsidize those who use much, much, more than average.

Here we have someone comparing to an all-you-can eat buffet. That is a good comparison. But they failed to see just how different the high-consumption user is from the average. It's not the "second plate of food" that is the problem. Indeed that would be closer to "average." The high consumption data user is more like someone at an all-you-can-eat buffet having 25 plates.

It wouldn't take a high percentage of eaters like that to cause the buffet's owner to either raise prices to cover it, eliminate all-you-can-eat, or limit how fast you could get another plate after the first 5. AT&T has, thankfully, chosen the first and last options to deal with the issue.




Michael
 
The "greed" comments are silly. The purpose of a corporation is to make money. If it isn't your company's mission, you're failing as a CEO or a Director.

The problem is this: AT&T, like most telcos, doesn't accept that the Internet has commoditized it. Bandwidth is now a commodity, just like oil, gas, gold, etc. This necessarily drives the price down, and takes those expensive services (like SMS, telco service) away from the carrier and places them in the hands of third parties.

They probably didn't see it coming, so some of those losses most likely weren't figured into their forecasts.

This is business. That's how it works.
Just because you've worked out a way to operate and extract money from people, doesn't mean you have a God-given right to that business.
If (and when) another business disrupts yours, you will put into practice your well thought out strategy to deal with it, and you will be able to adapt because your business has been grown on a solid financial base.
If you aren't able to do this, you haven't been running your business properly.

Let's look at the original iphone. Apple proposed terms. It has been suggested many times that Verizon initially turned them down. They needed some carrier adoption in the US. Now if they ran the numbers and it didn't make financial sense for them to agree to the stated terms, they should have walked on the deal rather than angering everyone later. At some point one of these carriers would have ended up marketing the iphone.

the point youre trying to make is ridiculous. what your saying is that those of us who payed for unlimited data and texts, shouldnt expect unlimited data and texts. thats like saying im going to an all you can eat buffet, but after my first plate im limited on what i can have. thats not what i payed for, and bought into their system for. its not my problem to worry about the carrier or other people on the network. the carrier should have expected that some people would take the unlimited to an extreme, while others would barely use it, its on them if they didnt. again, if their network cant handle it (which it can, its a ploy that the big two cant), its on them to upgrade their network.

It's "paid" not "payed". The real solution would be that they do not offer terms unless they're willing to uphold them. They could have just never offered this in the first place. If it's unprofitable at that point in time, don't offer it. They've noticed that their networks are just turning into dumb pipes as messaging and other services are being offered by third parties, so the pricing and terms should have been set with that in mind. Also I'm aware that other countries are ahead of the US in terms of phone networks. It has been that way at least since the 1990s (maybe the 80s).
 
Dear Randall Stephenson,

As the CEO of AT&T, you were the only carrier for the iPhone for damn near 4 years. You made BILLIONS of dollars. How the hell do you not have the absolute best service? You made a claim to be adding 50+ towers to the metro area here in NY, and claim to be upgrading your service. Why is it that your service gets worse and worse? *Why do I have to shut down my phone 5+ times a day to "reset the cell tower"? I've asked Verizon users if they have to shut down throughout their day, and surprise surprise, they all said no. I've been complaining for 3 years about the service, and wow, you've credited me $90 a few times and gave me a microcell tower for being a "valued and loyal customer." Sure I have great service in my room, but the second I go outside, it's gone. What happened to your "fewest dropped calls" commercials, hmm? Your slogan is "rethink possible". Maybe I will rethink what's possible or my possibilities as you're on my last nerve. And now, as if your service didn't suck enough as it is, you are going to throttle down my data speed? You claim that I am in the top 5% of high data users. That's funny, because I didn't know 2gb was considered a lot as you offer 4 or more gb of data. And now you have the AUDACITY to complain that you're only regret is being the first carrier of the iPhone and offering unlimited data plans? You made $29 BILLION dollars in sales an PROFITED $3.58 BILLION dollars. 60% of your profits are from the iPhone, so please, spare all of us your whining as you just make yourself look like a childish, selfish a$$hole.*
 
Yes!!!!!

Apple aught to buy T-Mobile's existing network, sell all of their non-iPhone users to AT&T, and then just have their network be the main iPhone network. Initially, iPhone users can stay on other networks, but once the new Apple network is strong enough, they can reel in all the iPhone users and we can all stop dealing with networks like AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint.


I totally agree!!!! I was thinking the same thing. Flat fee for Apple's own service say $50-$100 per month includes everything. They would bankrupt the other bloated bastards.

Besides data, I still cant believe the government lets them get away with charging for prepaid minutes on talk. (Forget the roll over nonsense with AT&T). We have all seem to accepted that, and are more worried about data but we should holding their feet to the fire on everything. Charge me for what I use, or go flat fee.
 
^^^^^
This is the the reason the USA cannot have unlimited mobile data: the immature, entitlement-fueled, mentality of a growing percentage of the population.

The problem is those of us who are "average" data users refuse to pay a price that would be high enough to subsidize those who use much, much, more than average.

Here we have someone comparing to an all-you-can eat buffet. That is a good comparison. But they failed to see just how different the high-consumption user is from the average. It's not the "second plate of food" that is the problem. Indeed that would be closer to "average." The high consumption data user is more like someone at an all-you-can-eat buffet having 25 plates.

It wouldn't take a high percentage of eaters like that to cause the buffet's owner to either raise prices to cover it, eliminate all-you-can-eat, or limit how fast you could get another plate after the first 5. AT&T has, thankfully, chosen the first and last options to deal with the issue.




Michael

how is it immature to expect the company i signed a contract with to hold up to their end of the bargin? i pay my bill on time every month and hold up to my end, the same should be expected of them. And please, dont ever lump me in with the occupy-esque movement of those that expect entitlements. i work my ass off for everything i have.

please tell me how much data the "average" data user uses? by recent events with at&t, apparently approx 2gb a month is high use. id assume thats more like the "average" user. by at&ts high use defination, that would be a second plate, not 25.

at the end of my contract, if verizon says no more unlimited, so be it. until then, they offered it, and i bought and signed into it. so they do owe me unlimited data until my contract is over.
 
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The "greed" comments are silly. The purpose of a corporation is to make money. If it isn't your company's mission, you're failing as a CEO or a Director.

The problem is this: AT&T, like most telcos, doesn't accept that the Internet has commoditized it. Bandwidth is now a commodity, just like oil, gas, gold, etc. This necessarily drives the price down, and takes those expensive services (like SMS, telco service) away from the carrier and places them in the hands of third parties.

I think that the negative comments towards AT&T have their root in the lousy coverage, lousy customer service, and high prices iPhone customers were subjected to for quite some time. I admit, I still bear some animosity towards them for that experience. I still call a dropped call - getting AT&T'ed.

Lately, I unlocked my iPhone and the experience was actually very pleasant and efficient. I think AT&T, after years of merciless and well-earned beatings, is trying to turn it around on that front. Coverage seems to have improved as well.

Paying a premium for a premium product service / product doesn't hack people off. Paying the premium for mediocre or poor product / service - does
 
Verizon on the Horizon

If my AT&T unlimited data goes, I'm gone to Verizon. I can hardly have an uninterrupted cell conversation from home, a suburb of a major city.
 
how is it immature to expect the company i signed a contract with to hold up to their end of the bargin? i pay my bill on time every month and hold up to my end, the same should be expected of them. And please, dont ever lump me in with the occupy-esque movement of those that expect entitlements. i work my ass off for everything i have.

please tell me how much data the "average" data user uses? by recent events with at&t, apparently approx 2gb a month is high use. id assume thats more like the "average" user. by at&ts high use defination, that would be a second plate, not 25.

at the end of my contract, if verizon says no more unlimited, so be it. until then, they offered it, and i bought and signed into it. so they do owe me unlimited data until my contract is over.
Thanks for illustrating my point so perfectly about a growing mentality in this country (before a mod edited your post). I do hope you didn't bust a vein doing it though.

For your information, before throttling began, the top 5% on AT&T were using eleven times the amount that the other 95% were using. So, yes, my comparison to "25 plates" at an all you can eat buffet was accurate, if not low.





Michael
 
Thanks for illustrating my point so perfectly about a growing mentality in this country (before a mod edited your post). I do hope you didn't bust a vein doing it though.

For your information, before throttling began, the top 5% on AT&T were using eleven times the amount that the other 95% were using. So, yes, my comparison to "25 plates" at an all you can eat buffet was accurate, if not low.





Michael

source?
 

By the way it was 12 times as much, not 11. But here:

One new measure is a step that may reduce the data throughput speed experienced by a very small minority of smartphone customers who are on unlimited plans - those whose extraordinary level of data usage puts them in the top 5 percent of our heaviest data users in a billing period. In fact, these customers on average use 12 times more data than the average of all other smartphone data customers.

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=20535&cdvn=news&newsarticleid=32318

AT&T also included that with the bills last summer. When I read it I immediately dropped my unlimited plan (which I had since the very first iPhone). Not because I feared I would be throttled. But since I only averaged 400-500MB per month I realized I was only subsidizing those who used much more. I went to the $25 2GB plan (still have it). Now, with an iPhone 4S, I average about 500-550 MB.

I don't try to restrict 3G usage at all. But I do use WiFi whenever it is available. I never use Netflix on 3G.

But on the other hand, I have read many unlimited users say they never use wifi either because it was a hassle, or more frequently something like this: "why should I use wifi? I pay for unlimited 3G!" To me that is not being reasonable, and immature. Oh, I should note many were using upwards of 10GB per month.





Michael
 
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