AT&T Dropped Call Rate of 30% Considered Normal in New York City

[Cartaphilus]

I'm not questioning those reporting their first-hand experience with an unacceptable level of dropped calls, but the posted repair report drafted by a Genius Bar tech is hardly documentation of AT&T's service levels, much less an official tolerance of that level. This tech was only reporting that he examined the iPhone and it was performing according to spec, and that its performance in use would be consistent with whatever level of service AT&T was providing at the time.

I realize this is beside the point for those disappointed with their AT&T service, but someone was wrong on the Internet, and it's my lot in life to stay up past 1 a.m. to straighten things like this out. <sigh>

 

[nastebu]

I'm not questioning those reporting their first-hand experience with an unacceptable level of dropped calls, but the posted repair report drafted by a Genius Bar tech is hardly documentation of AT&T's service levels, much less an official tolerance of that level. This tech was only reporting that he examined the iPhone and it was performing according to spec, and that its performance in use would be consistent with whatever level of service AT&T was providing at the time.

I realize this is beside the point for those disappointed with their AT&T service, but someone was wrong on the Internet, and it's my lot in life to stay up past 1 a.m. to straighten things like this out. <sigh>

This has been said a bunch of times in the thread, but people are still acting as if this is a definitive statement on iPhone service in NYC. It is not. The headline is very deceptive. All that's shown in this case is that one person experienced at least a 22% dropped call rate, and that an Apple technical service person determined that this drop rate was not caused by the iPhone's hardware. That's it.

 

[CubusX]

A new app.

Dropped calls is a feature of the iphone... enjoy

There's an app for that.

 

[iOrlando]

yeah 30% of calls are dropped sounds about right...

 

[carlgo]

It's interesting how cell service works. Here's a simplistic summary:

Only a certain number of users can use a tower at any given time. There is only a certain range of frequencies that can be used. All towers use these same frequencies. This means that each tower must not overlap the others in terms of coverage area and frequenceis. To ensure this, companies actually use different frequency ranges on adjacent towers. Further limiting how many users can use each tower.

The solution to this is to create smaller cell sites that cover a smaller area (and therefore will have fewer users at any given time). The problem with this is that each new cell site requires a new tower. With all the opposition to new tower construction it can take months or years to get approval to build one.

With the massive growth in cell usage companies are having to create smaller and smaller cell sites. Because of the way the system works putting up one new tower requires the reconfiguration of all the adjacent towers. Their signal area must be changed, their frequencies must be changed and it all must be integrated together.

When you get a dropped call, it's usually because you are moving into another cell site (serviced by a new tower). Your call must be handed off to the new tower. If this new tower is at capacity or overloaded, failures happen.

This is why it sucks for very high density areas.

Luckily in Minneapolis we have very good AT&T coverage. I get very fast 3G speeds and <1% dropped calls everywhere I go. Thank you urban sprawl for spreading everyone out.. When I was in NYC I noticed by data speeds were much slower. I didn't make enough calls to have any problems with that though.

Nice explanation. It seems that the whole idea of cell towers is unworkable. You think it is bad in the cities? Even semi-rural areas have no coverage at all.

There has to be an entirely new technology for this, or the use of satellites or aircraft instead of silly towers. C'mon Apple, solve this problem.

 

[damage00]

Nice explanation. It seems that the whole idea of cell towers is unworkable. You think it is bad in the cities? Even semi-rural areas have no coverage at all.

There has to be an entirely new technology for this, or the use of satellites or aircraft instead of silly towers. C'mon Apple, solve this problem.

That's like saying:

Nice explanation. It seems that the whole idea of freeways is unworkable. You think traffic is bad in the cities? Even semi-rural areas have no pavement at all.

There has to be an entirely new form of transportation for this, or the use of maglev or star trek transporters instead of silly roads. C'mon Toyota (maker of the Prius), solve this problem.

I'm not picking on you, carlgo. I'm saying, what you suggest is a little like throwing the baby out with the dirty bath water.

Cell works, and has been working since the mid-80's and trillions of calls have been successfully placed. Apple didn't design it so they don't get the credit or the blame -- all they did was bring a new gadget to market. It's not the tech that is bad, it's the implementation that is at fault.

And it's AT&T's implementation that is to blame -- because it is cheap. Take a look at their stock price since the iPhone was introduced. They *want* $100 bucks every month from every customer in the US, but they aren't willing to reinvest enough of that into an infrastructure to support the number of customers they negotiated for.

Corporations tend establish ad campaigns to counter bad press or customer concerns/complaints, not what they do well. For instance, AT&T has the iPhone and no one else does. That's good. You would think they want to tell the world about that. No. It runs television spots for their Samsung/LG/etc. but not the iPhone.

On the other hand, AT&T has lousy coverage. Just look at your bars in SFO or NYC or even most of New Mexico -- doesn't matter where -- that's not a bandwidth issue. It's coverage. That's bad, so they advertise "more bars in more areas". These ads usually play on emotions, like two young lovers being separated, or they borrow on another organizations goodwill, like a company that gives shoes to the poor. They do not use demonstration or facts, because there aren't any. When I see these, I interpret them as the corporation's admission there is a problem.

 

[Maccin475]

THIS IS DISGRACEFUL !!!!!!!!!

With AT&T being the cell phone carrier that charges the most, they should be EXPECTED to provide the best quality service in the industry. If AT&T thinks 30% of all calls being dropped is "normal," this is absolutely unacceptable! So this means that of every ten phone calls to 911, 3 being dropped is "normal" and acceptable????? And major corporations with thousands of employees are supposed to sign up for cell service with AT&T, knowing that 30% of all calls (with customers) being dropped is, in AT&T's eyes, acceptable????????

All emergency calls are placed on a separate priority line/ or are given preference over all other calls at any point in time.

 

[3goldens]

Truly Pathetic!

AT&T has hands down the worst service I have ever experienced.

It is as though they were operating in an emerging mobile phone world sometime in the early 80's when phones were the size of a Sat phone or you carried it in its own portable case.

In all the years I was with Verizon I had maybe 10 dropped calls.

They should be ashamed of themselves. But really what do they care, they have the iphone exclusively for the time being.
I must say this reflects poorly on Apple who picked these idiots in the first place.

Honestly, on a day to day basis, I think about going back and just giving up, the service is just terrible and I live in NYC! Where there are towers everywhere, and I usually have 5 bars.

Despicable profit seeking, customer service unfriendly whores is what they are!

 

[3goldens]

Stay with Verizon and get yourself an Itouch ipod!

Hi,

I'm thinking of switching from Verizon to AT&T to get the iPhone. However, I'm hearing horror stories of up to 30% dropped calls in the NY area.

For all iPhone/AT&T users in northern NJ and NYC area, can you verify that you experience around 30% of dropped calls?? is this true??

http://gizmodo.com/5370493/apple-genius-bar-iphones-30-call-drop-is-normal-in-new-york

I want the iPhone, but not if it comes with such bad service!!

Thank you,

olimits7

 

[Rodimus Prime]

All emergency calls are placed on a separate priority line/ or are given preference over all other calls at any point in time.

On top of that they will grab the tower with the best signal no matter what carrier it is on.

If you place a 911 call from an ATT phone and T-Mobile has a better tower in the area then you can sure as hell bet that the phone will be going to that tower.

emergency mode on a phone is very different than a normal call. It has the power to kick others off the line and you are given more dedicated bandwithe for the phone.

 

[DMann]

AT&T has hands down the worst service I have ever experienced.

It is as though they were operating in an emerging mobile phone world sometime in the early 80's when phones were the size of a Sat phone or you carried it in its own portable case.

In all the years I was with Verizon I had maybe 10 dropped calls.

They should be ashamed of themselves. But really what do they care, they have the iphone exclusively for the time being.
I must say this reflects poorly on Apple who picked these idiots in the first place.

Honestly, on a day to day basis, I think about going back and just giving up, the service is just terrible and I live in NYC! Where there are towers everywhere, and I usually have 5 bars.

Despicable profit seeking, customer service unfriendly whores is what they are!

Blame Verizon then. Apple approached Verizon first, and Verizon was unwilling to allow Apple to have full control over the OS, the design of the iPhone

itself, or to make concessions regarding profit sharing. CDMA would not have been an ideal choice for a global phone, in any event.

Hi,

I'm thinking of switching from Verizon to AT&T to get the iPhone. However, I'm hearing horror stories of up to 30% dropped calls in the NY area.

For all iPhone/AT&T users in northern NJ and NYC area, can you verify that you experience around 30% of dropped calls?? is this true??

http://gizmodo.com/5370493/apple-genius-bar-iphones-30-call-drop-is-normal-in-new-york

I want the iPhone, but not if it comes with such bad service!!

Thank you,

olimits7

Northern NJ: zero dropped calls, excellent coverage overall.

NYC (UpperWest Side): 3-5% dropped calls, if even that. Excellent coverage, compromised when inside certain areas of buildings, but for the most part, fine.

 

[McBeats]

wow... that is such ****! pardon my french but that is rediculous... they gonna discount the bill by a 30%? they ought to. totally unacceptable.

I got verizon, and I RARELY get dropped calls nowadays, the service got better over the years... im not gonna lie and say it never happens, but i dont remember the last time i had one.

to be fair with AT&T i gotta ask, are those calls only 30 seconds long or 30 minutes long and then gets dropped? 30 second dropped call would piss me off compared to a 30 minute one. if it drops at 30 minutes AT&T is doing ya a favor not accidently running up the minutes hahah

 

[Mischka07]

wow... that is such ****! pardon my french but that is rediculous... they gonna discount the bill by a 30%? they ought to. totally unacceptable.

I got verizon, and I RARELY get dropped calls nowadays, the service got better over the years... im not gonna lie and say it never happens, but i dont remember the last time i had one.

to be fair with AT&T i gotta ask, are those calls only 30 seconds long or 30 minutes long and then gets dropped? 30 second dropped call would piss me off compared to a 30 minute one. if it drops at 30 minutes AT&T is doing ya a favor not accidently running up the minutes hahah

I've had AT&T and the iPhone for a week now. I've experienced about 4 dropped calls thus far, 3 of them were in downtown San Francisco. My calls rarely last over 5 minutes, but 2 of the dropped calls happened as I was dialing out. 1 dropped call was after 4 minutes on the phone, and I can't remember when the last dropped call happened.

That said, I've probably made and received a total of 150 calls in the past week, so a 3% dropped call ratio isn't too terrible.

 

[alent1234]

i have a family plan with a 3G, 3GS and 2 cheapo phones. my wife and her parents came from Verizon. we live in NYC and no one ever complains about dropped calls. i've had a few from inside a converted factory building with very thick walls

the most dropped calls i have are to my mom in colorado who has t-mobile. those drop on a land line all the time as well

 

[buckdutter]

wow Matt, you must live in a special area of Minneapolis, because my experience with AT&T coverage in Minny is terrible! I was over in St. Louis Park just yesterday and my wife and I both had NO SERVICE until we got into Edina, and when my wife was in downtown at her patent lawyers office (IDC) she had 1 bar on Edge, and could not stay connected for more than 30 seconds before dropping the call. Thankfully in Prior Lake, I have decent coverage.
I have had Sprint service for 7 years before switching over 2 years ago with AT&T, and if it were not for this device, I would be back on Sprint.
I am tired of all the excuses I hear from AT&T every time I call them about their coverage, its a joke. What makes me and everyone I know upset, is this is AT&T we are talking about, not a 3rd rate, fly by night provider... I pay a premium price every month, and do not get anywhere close to a premium service in return.
I cant wait for this phone to be with a different carrier, the second it becomes available, I am switched over!

I would get your phone checked. I have lived in Minneapolis and travel all over the Twin Cities for work...and I have never had an issue with coverage. Only place I used to consistently get dropped calls was 169 & 494 intersection. Either your are grossly exaggerating, or your phone is literally defective.

One thing I have noticed is that the iPhone struggles switching from 3G to EDGE. My wife has an E71x, and I have played around with both in iffy areas. The E71x transitions (seemingly) seemlessly and easily...the iPhone hangs on 3G even at 0 bars if EDGE is available at 5. I am starting to suspect that some of these issues in various places are both network related (duh), and software related.

At any rate...I have nothing but good things to say about the coverage in Minneapolis...and certainly have never had an issue stretching from a distance like St Louis park to Edina. I would get your phone checked.

 

[Thunder82]

Blame Verizon then. Apple approached Verizon first, and Verizon was unwilling to allow Apple to have full control over the OS, the design of the iPhone .

Don't believe everything you read on the web, this is 100% not true. If Apple was in the business of limiting devices sales to the US market, Verizon would have been a great option. Fortunately, or unfortunately, (depending on how you look at it) GSM is essentially the global standard for 2G, so AT&T or T-mobile would have been the only possible carriers for the iPhone

 

[Thunder82]

wow... that is such ****! pardon my french but that is rediculous... they gonna discount the bill by a 30%? they ought to. totally unacceptable.

I got verizon, and I RARELY get dropped calls nowadays, the service got better over the years... im not gonna lie and say it never happens, but i dont remember the last time i had one.

to be fair with AT&T i gotta ask, are those calls only 30 seconds long or 30 minutes long and then gets dropped? 30 second dropped call would piss me off compared to a 30 minute one. if it drops at 30 minutes AT&T is doing ya a favor not accidently running up the minutes hahah

Do some research on what tall buildings do to cell towers/signal and the ability for your phone to handle constant hand-offs between thousands of towers. Trust me, sky scrapers make it impossible for Verizons, T-mobile, or any other carriers service to be much better than the rest. The other carriers are just better about hiding their shortcomings from the public.

 

[DMann]

Don't believe everything you read on the web, this is 100% not true. If Apple was in the business of limiting devices sales to the US market, Verizon would have been a great option. Fortunately, or unfortunately, (depending on how you look at it) GSM is essentially the global standard for 2G, so AT&T or T-mobile would have been the only possible carriers for the iPhone

Perhaps you meant not 100% true. I have heard, from multiple sources, that Verizon wanted more influence on the design of the phone, layout of the OS, and structure of apps and distribution, as well as a larger share of profit. If you have information which suggests otherwise, please do tell. As stated before, a GSM carrier makes more sense for a global phone. Now, with its proven success, perhaps Verizon would be more willing to make some concessions for marketing the iPhone in the USA, as this would greatly relieve the bandwidth burden AT&T is currently experiencing.

 

[kamek]

My calls drop all the time.

 

[applextrent]

Only 30%?

In Orange County California I honestly have about a 60% dropped call rate.

 

[lpingaud]

good old ATT

Gizmodo reports that one of its readers recently visited the Genius Bar at the SoHo Apple retail store in New York City complaining that 30% of his attempted calls were being dropped, and was informed after testing that such performance was considered normal by AT&T's standards for the area. The reader provided Gizmodo with a copy of the Genius Bar work authorization form noting the technician's assessment of the situation.AT&T has acknowledged that it has struggled with service performance in areas of high iPhone density such as the New York City and San Francisco Bay areas, and has recently taken steps to enhance 3G service in those and other markets.

Article Link: AT&T Dropped Call Rate of 30% Considered Normal in New York City

if ATT admits that 30% of dropped calls is normal, it will be normal that they give discounts ?!?!?!?! they wouldnt think thats normal !!!! what a shame to have the best phone on the worst service operator ...

 

[phineas]

Come on Verizon, 2010 and the iPhone, yea baby, a REAL network , with real support, and not some call center junkie who doesn't know jack about the device and the network

 

[aristotle]

If you want to lay the blame at anyones feet, it should be Apple. They should have made a CDMA version and split the load between the networks.

I can just imagine the lawsuits from clueless american consumers complaining that their iPhone from verizon does not work in Europe like their friends AT&T iPhone.

CDMA is a dying technology. That is why verizon is switching to LTE (4G GSM).

The blame does not lay with Apple. The blame rests solely on the entire wireless industry who have been claiming "unlimited" data on phones that were too crippled by a lack of features or crappy software like browsers for people to even bother trying to use a lot of data bandwidth. The iPhone changed all of that and AT&T should have offered capped plans but then a bunch of american consumers with a sense of entitlement would have complained that Verizon were offering unlimited data on their crappy phones.

The iPhone was such a major game changer in how people use wireless data that no carrier in the US would have been prepared for the load. In Europe, where the Nokia smart phones are more popular, there was higher data usage long before the iPhone came to the scene. In North America, most phones offered texting and WAP internet access. Smartphone usage was much lower in our region compared with Europe.

 

[alent1234]

Nice explanation. It seems that the whole idea of cell towers is unworkable. You think it is bad in the cities? Even semi-rural areas have no coverage at all.

There has to be an entirely new technology for this, or the use of satellites or aircraft instead of silly towers. C'mon Apple, solve this problem.

or lobby your local government not to oppose new towers because a few idiots think it spoils the view

 

[dwhittington]

yeah 30% of calls are dropped sounds about right...

I worked in NYC for a while too. Seems right on par. Way to go AT&T.