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AT&T Expands FaceTime Over Cellular Support to All Tiered Data Plans
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Exactly, Poor customer service. I can have one feature if I switch around my entire plan for them. Not gonna happen. The unlimited plan is the only reason I remain with AT&T in the first place. If they ever force me off of it, I will be gone in a heartbeat.
Dear AT&T, I'm moving to T-Mobile as soon as my contract is up this year. You are violating the spirit and intent of net neutrality by singling out a particular data service on your network. You will not keep me as a customer with your current agenda.
signed,
AT&T iPhone user since Day One
signed,
AT&T iPhone user since Day One
Not everybody. I am actually on my grandfathered unlimited plan to save money. Moving to anything else would cost me about $50 a month.
Shaft?
AT&T is not giving you the "shaft." They are providing existing users incentives to switch from their unlimited plan to tiered shared plans. It's a business my friend, and as it turns out, unlimited data is not in their best interest. Be happy that they are allowing you to keep it even if you upgrade (unlike Verizon).
AT&T is not giving you the "shaft." They are providing existing users incentives to switch from their unlimited plan to tiered shared plans. It's a business my friend, and as it turns out, unlimited data is not in their best interest. Be happy that they are allowing you to keep it even if you upgrade (unlike Verizon).
I agree about the Facetime. It was not offered. But I also think, other than allowing tethering, we should be given a reduced monthly rate after our 2 year contract since they are no longer covering the costs of the hardware.
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Didn't have to, they offered it for free
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But tethering was an option that was supposed to be enabled within our contract.
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I use from 6 to 8GB on average.
As a consumer of a tiered plan, I have to shamefully admit that I appreciate AT&T's restriction on tethering because some people tether tremendous amounts of data and slow the rest of us down because the network can't handle that level of taxation. Similar to the early days of Cable internet (It's still technically true now but not NEARLY as intense). If you had that one guy on the block taxing the internet all day long it was so annoying that it was so hard to reach your actual speeds.
BUT, when I got my first iPhone, I was on the other end of that and really got some sticker shock. For years, before 3G even, I had an unlimited data plan with various 'dumb' phones that could tether, Palm OS devices, and MS PocketPC (later Windows Mobile) devices. I had all the data I could use, for like $10 a month, AND, I could take the SIM card out of my phone and stick it into a PCMCIA 'AirCard' and get data that way without even needing to tether!
No problems EVER doing this for YEARS and AT&T was perfectly fine with it, before I even got the data plan I asked if I could tether and they said yes!
But then I got my iPhone, which was an iPhone 4 (so AFTER AT&T dropped unlimited data). Suddenly, AT&T wanted MORE money for LESS data, as I was now capped at 2GB. AND, they told me I could no longer tether unless I pay MORE? I RARELY went over 2GB EVER because when I tethered, it was rare. I would much rather use my much faster (currently 50mbps) cable internet connection, or a wi-fi connection wherever I am. Especially before HSPA+ and LTE.
I REALLY hope AT&T figures out how to get LTE workin' right! Satellite internet has changed, and is similar in some ways. It's crappy, but it's all some people have (all I had when I lived on 20 acres in the country!). When I first got satellite, it was 128kbps and you got a 5GB Cap (paid extra for the cap). When life dictated that I move into town (at least it's still a rural town!), I was using a 768kbps connection with a 10GB cap. Now I have cable, but my old neighbors who used the same satellite provider gets 1.5mbps and unlimited data. Also, it cost us over $1500 to have the sat. internet installed, now, that same company offers free equipment and installation with a 2 year contract.
Still expensive (more expensive per month than cable or DSL) still slow (1.5mbps with a 750-1000ms ping), but at least it's unlimited. MAYBE LTE will get to that one day, although with 1.5mbps throughput it's easier for a sattelite provider to offer it than a theoretical 100mbps LTE provider!
In a perfect world, LTE would be unlimited, reasonably priced, and available across all my devices. Imagine paying a couple hundred bucks like I already do for cellphone/tablet service across my devices, but adding a home LTE router for another $10 or $20 to get online at home with LTE. I don't have LTE now, but, in many markets it's as fast, in both latency and throughput, as my cable internet connection. That would be a great value for me! Ironically, that same rural area got 3G long before ANY of the big cities in the area, in fact even before areas around St.Louis. They were among the first when 3G was being rolled out. Why? People eagerly ditched their crappy sattelite and dial up (though dial up wasn't always available! The copper phone lines were so old the connections were too poor.) for faster 3G internet. You could get the same 500kbps-2mbps speeds (or faster) but with significantly less latency. LOTS of people ditched it. We did too at the VERY end (when I started tethering) but moved shortly thereafter. AT&T saw a market of people where they could have a monopoly as an ISP, as they are already a monopoly on cell service (nobody, zero, zilch, nada, no-one, else works out here)
Anyway, long story short, deploying LTE and really improving the backhaul COULD make AT&T a viable ISP, though unfortunately, A) They are invested in terrestrial broadband themselves (a principle reason for broadband data caps AND cellular data caps, I firmly believe, is companies like Cox, Charter, AT&T, etc., resisting things like Netflix and Hulu enticing people to 'cut the cable', or cellular internet being a viable alternative to a copper wire). and B) Until someone ELSE does it (bigger than sprint, who in many parts of the country have spotty-at-best service. I have to drive 20 minutes to get the first sprint signal!), as AT&T is not likely to lead the way with unlimited data (again) and such.
Companies like Clear, who are NOT invested in terrestrial broadband, are already offering unlimited home LTE solutions. Unfortunately, their coverage is also spotty and mostly limited to urban areas.
Anyway, long-winded post over... I am optimistic for the future of LTE. But not too happy with AT&T's reverse course, although I do understand it. The iPhone and devices like it brought a sudden haul of data use. Previously, I used very little data but most of my data was tethering. Now, I tether much less and use about the same or MORE data. Running WAP website ('baby internet' as Steve Jobs called it) on my PocketPC phone or running an occasional crappy app didn't use much. The iPhone sucks data down like crazy. I think it really hit AT&T, who isn't always forward-thinking, like a ton of bricks. That's a HUGE change in Data. Assume I am the average AT&T customer, well I can tell you that, me myself, I saw an increase to the magnitude of my former 12 month high data usage (highest amount used in one month during a 12 month period) became my AVERAGE for EVERY month after getting the iPhone, that's significant.
I hope they get it figured out! OR, I hope one of the other carriers frees me from my bondage here and has consistent and reliable service in this area and offers a better deal.
Also, it's worth mentioning, on the subject of tethering- AT&T now allows it for free with a mobile share plan, but that STILL begs the question why 'normal' plans can't do it. And, of course, why the iPhone 4 can't do it but the 5 can? Hello? WHY?? The 4 uses LESS data, being limited to 3G! So my wifes 4 can't use (well, okay, it may possibly be jailbroken...) but in theory can't use it, but my 5 which sucks down MORE data can?
BUT, when I got my first iPhone, I was on the other end of that and really got some sticker shock. For years, before 3G even, I had an unlimited data plan with various 'dumb' phones that could tether, Palm OS devices, and MS PocketPC (later Windows Mobile) devices. I had all the data I could use, for like $10 a month, AND, I could take the SIM card out of my phone and stick it into a PCMCIA 'AirCard' and get data that way without even needing to tether!
No problems EVER doing this for YEARS and AT&T was perfectly fine with it, before I even got the data plan I asked if I could tether and they said yes!
But then I got my iPhone, which was an iPhone 4 (so AFTER AT&T dropped unlimited data). Suddenly, AT&T wanted MORE money for LESS data, as I was now capped at 2GB. AND, they told me I could no longer tether unless I pay MORE? I RARELY went over 2GB EVER because when I tethered, it was rare. I would much rather use my much faster (currently 50mbps) cable internet connection, or a wi-fi connection wherever I am. Especially before HSPA+ and LTE.
I REALLY hope AT&T figures out how to get LTE workin' right! Satellite internet has changed, and is similar in some ways. It's crappy, but it's all some people have (all I had when I lived on 20 acres in the country!). When I first got satellite, it was 128kbps and you got a 5GB Cap (paid extra for the cap). When life dictated that I move into town (at least it's still a rural town!), I was using a 768kbps connection with a 10GB cap. Now I have cable, but my old neighbors who used the same satellite provider gets 1.5mbps and unlimited data. Also, it cost us over $1500 to have the sat. internet installed, now, that same company offers free equipment and installation with a 2 year contract.
Still expensive (more expensive per month than cable or DSL) still slow (1.5mbps with a 750-1000ms ping), but at least it's unlimited. MAYBE LTE will get to that one day, although with 1.5mbps throughput it's easier for a sattelite provider to offer it than a theoretical 100mbps LTE provider!
In a perfect world, LTE would be unlimited, reasonably priced, and available across all my devices. Imagine paying a couple hundred bucks like I already do for cellphone/tablet service across my devices, but adding a home LTE router for another $10 or $20 to get online at home with LTE. I don't have LTE now, but, in many markets it's as fast, in both latency and throughput, as my cable internet connection. That would be a great value for me! Ironically, that same rural area got 3G long before ANY of the big cities in the area, in fact even before areas around St.Louis. They were among the first when 3G was being rolled out. Why? People eagerly ditched their crappy sattelite and dial up (though dial up wasn't always available! The copper phone lines were so old the connections were too poor.) for faster 3G internet. You could get the same 500kbps-2mbps speeds (or faster) but with significantly less latency. LOTS of people ditched it. We did too at the VERY end (when I started tethering) but moved shortly thereafter. AT&T saw a market of people where they could have a monopoly as an ISP, as they are already a monopoly on cell service (nobody, zero, zilch, nada, no-one, else works out here)
Anyway, long story short, deploying LTE and really improving the backhaul COULD make AT&T a viable ISP, though unfortunately, A) They are invested in terrestrial broadband themselves (a principle reason for broadband data caps AND cellular data caps, I firmly believe, is companies like Cox, Charter, AT&T, etc., resisting things like Netflix and Hulu enticing people to 'cut the cable', or cellular internet being a viable alternative to a copper wire). and B) Until someone ELSE does it (bigger than sprint, who in many parts of the country have spotty-at-best service. I have to drive 20 minutes to get the first sprint signal!), as AT&T is not likely to lead the way with unlimited data (again) and such.
Companies like Clear, who are NOT invested in terrestrial broadband, are already offering unlimited home LTE solutions. Unfortunately, their coverage is also spotty and mostly limited to urban areas.
Anyway, long-winded post over... I am optimistic for the future of LTE. But not too happy with AT&T's reverse course, although I do understand it. The iPhone and devices like it brought a sudden haul of data use. Previously, I used very little data but most of my data was tethering. Now, I tether much less and use about the same or MORE data. Running WAP website ('baby internet' as Steve Jobs called it) on my PocketPC phone or running an occasional crappy app didn't use much. The iPhone sucks data down like crazy. I think it really hit AT&T, who isn't always forward-thinking, like a ton of bricks. That's a HUGE change in Data. Assume I am the average AT&T customer, well I can tell you that, me myself, I saw an increase to the magnitude of my former 12 month high data usage (highest amount used in one month during a 12 month period) became my AVERAGE for EVERY month after getting the iPhone, that's significant.
I hope they get it figured out! OR, I hope one of the other carriers frees me from my bondage here and has consistent and reliable service in this area and offers a better deal.
Also, it's worth mentioning, on the subject of tethering- AT&T now allows it for free with a mobile share plan, but that STILL begs the question why 'normal' plans can't do it. And, of course, why the iPhone 4 can't do it but the 5 can? Hello? WHY?? The 4 uses LESS data, being limited to 3G! So my wifes 4 can't use (well, okay, it may possibly be jailbroken...) but in theory can't use it, but my 5 which sucks down MORE data can?
MacRumors, AT&T, etc. have always referred to 'tiered data plans' as the 250MB, 2GB, 4GB, 5GB, etc. etc. data plans. Before now I've never heard of the unlimited plan being referred to as anything other than just that, an unlimited data plan. Certainly not a 'top tier data plan', as, when those plans were available, it was pretty much the only plan. Perhaps one other small plan, then unlimited. Not much of a 'tier' system.
Another member of the chorus
The decision to exclude unlimited plans from this feature seems like a very shortsighted one. It seems doubtful that allowing unlimited plan subscribers to fully utilize their equipment would really add any significant stress to the AT&T network, and it certainly won't motivate many to change plans. What's the point?
The decision to exclude unlimited plans from this feature seems like a very shortsighted one. It seems doubtful that allowing unlimited plan subscribers to fully utilize their equipment would really add any significant stress to the AT&T network, and it certainly won't motivate many to change plans. What's the point?
Just change to a tiered plan then.
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They want everyone to move from the Unlimited plans.
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They won't miss you.
you should. Verizon LTE has been amazing since I switched. I can't believe I stay with ATT for as long as I did. And yes I had "unlimited" - which is useless if you have crappy service.
They still offer "unlimited"
Then stop offering "unlimited"
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Enough leave, they will.
They DON'T offer unlimited for smart phones. Only for 'standard' phones (like flip phones and such, nothing that runs Android or iOS, no blackberries, etc.). The most data they offer is 20GB shared for $200+$30 per device.
Otherwise why on EARTH would ANY of us pay for our data plans when we could get AT&T's $10 'unlimited' plan? But it won't work, in fact if you stick a SIM card for a plan with the 'unlimited' data in it into a smartphone, it'll AUTOMATICALLY switch you to a 2GB data plan.
They USED to offer unlimited SMARTPHONE data that some are grandfathered into that they can't quite kick off due to their contract, BUT, they are trying really hard to force people to get rid of their unlimited data plans that they had with their original iPhones or iPhone 3G's, etc.
I wish I could leave, the service is atrocious and AT&T is the most fragmented company I've EVER worked with. The retail stores say one thing, different people on the phone say different things, and each tell you to talk to the other.. incompetency must be a REQUIREMENT for AT&T. It's not an issue with the employees, but rather the corporate leadership who gives them poor guidelines, no training, and doesn't keep them informed.
But, ironically, AT&T's service out here is impeccable. Rural areas where you're an hour from a gas station, into the cities and towns, EVERYWHERE has a solid signal with at LEAST HSPA+. I know people complain in a lot of markets that AT&T is poor but here, it's excellent. Company bad, cell service good. However, the competition offers little service where I live, and if I drive 20 minutes west (as I do often) I get NO signal. My wifes work phone is a Verizon Android device and she gets a signal at work, and about 1 bar at home if she's lucky (usually can't make a call) and gets no signal most other places.
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They offer unlimited plans for people who have it. It's called grandfathering. If they don't want my business as unlimited then they should force me to select a tiered plan.
Att wants it both ways. I just want att to be honest. They aren't.
Please tell me how a capped 5gb unlimited plan with limited capabilities helps people on tiered.
They can't force you off, otherwise they would have. You signed a contract you probably didn't read, and while it was full of stuff that protects AT&T, it DID have a nice little thing in there that allowed you to retain your current plan until you decide to make a chance. The grandfathering is in your contract. They don't 'offer' it, they are simply honoring their contract. AT&T has routinely been used and lost HUGE class action settlements when they forced people out of things, so they are treading lightly. It would be easy to develop a huge class action suit claiming 'bait and switch' if they forced the unlimited users over to a tiered plan. Sure the plaintiffs in the suit might get an $11 check 4 years after signing the suit, but AT&T would be out MILLIONS.
Not sure what prompted the second comment. I'm not advocating the 5GB tiered plans. I'm on one because I didn't have an iPhone long enough ago to have the unlimited, and my Windows Mobile smartphone at the time was, apparently, not considered a 'smartphone' by AT&T so I had a 'feature phone' unlimited data plan.
The reason AT&T does it though, is because they can't handle the throughput. They simply can't. Too many data guzzling smartphones on the network. It's not just capping people using 90GB a month either, in fact it's not even about making sure nobody uses more than X amount of data each month. It's about making their customers consciously aware of the data they are using. "Oh, well, I only have a 2GB data plan, maybe I'll download this App when I get home". I can't tell you HOW many people I've met, who are so afraid of overages, who won't use YouTube on the go and are afraid of downloading anything because they are afraid of going over, even though they barely use 100MB of their 2GB plan. But they don't understand what a 'gee bee' is, and they don't know how to check their data. It's easy to do, but they still don't know how to do it. So, what we end up with, is less people using data all the time, keeping the bandwidth from being overloaded by users.
Bottom line, the AT&T, et al network, cannot handle the amount of smartphones it has on it, and must impose restrictions to reduce the amount of load.
Case and point; go to a mall during black friday. Or, a sports stadium or major concert venue during a sold out event. You might have a full signal, but can't send an iMessage and your web browser times out! Now, some stadiums are doing some cool stuff to tie in some cellular repeaters to terrestrial broadband to try and ease that load, but the reason the performance is so poor is everyone is weighing it down. And it's not even use, it's services like iMessage, GPS apps trying to find parking, e-Mail clients downloading email in the background, etc. etc. Many smartphones use data all the time when idle. Combine that with 50,000 people, many with smartphones pulling data? Put them all in such a small area that they are being served by just one or two towers? Ouch!
Take the mall example. Pre-2007, I used smartphones, and I had no issue on black friday standing in those stupid lines using my smartphone at full speed. Most people had flip phones. In fact, I had people comment on how dumb it was to have a smartphone, because they were expensive and you had to 'buy internet' for them. After 2007, it's gotten progressively worse. Why? In 2007 Apple turned smartphones from something nerds and businesspeople keep in their oxford shirt pockets, into a hip cool accessory for taking pictures of food and updating their facebook status. Now EVERYONE is in line trying to use their smartphone, and it's overloaded!
That's an extreme example, but it's still an example of why. As an AT&T consumer, I'd much rather see them take their billions of dollars from their incredibly high prices, and build a network that can HANDLE smartphones. Sprint has unlimited data, but poor national coverage so they don't have as many customers. If people flock to sprint, they'll do the same thing. IN FACT, they even said in a statement that their unlimited data is 'temporary' and will only remain while the amount of smartphones they have on the network remains manageable.
I'm still crossing my fingers for a network that can handle smartphones. So that when I go to a baseball game I can use my phone between innings or stream from the MLB.tv app so I can listen to the sportscasters, and more importantly, so that I can once again have unlimited data because the network can handle be indiscriminately using my smartphone whenever however and wherever I please!
False. They CAN force me off my unlimited when my contract is up again. They continue to add that "nice little thing" in there on their own accord. If they truly want their customers off unlimited, just pull a verizon and don't grandfather anyone. Done.
If im throttled, how is restricting me from the usage of Facetime doing any good for the network when I can just as easily Skype, watch Netflix all day, youtube, Hulu, Crackle, etc etc etc. It's just silly.
Throttle me when I breach the 5gb. Im fine with that but they don't seem to be honoring their end of the bargain if you ask me.
What a great customer experience!
I agree, they aren't. You seem to think I'm defending AT&T, I'm not. Just describing my theories as to 'why'.
Furthermore, I still think AT&T is afraid of yet another class action lawsuit, one regarding 'bait and switch' if they kicked you off your grandfathered plan. AT&T gets sued ALOT for ALOT of reasons, many of them warranted. I could be wrong, but I still think that's the reason they continue to grandfather unlimited users.
Well, again, I'm not defending them. I'm with you. I wasn't saying it was GOOD, just saying what it IS. And it's effective. AT&T has managed to scare their customers into thinking they are going to run out of data when they probably won't. AT&T said that 98% of their unlimited data customers use less than 2GB of data and I believe it, I honestly do. Not everyone is a 'techie' using tons of apps. How many people do YOU know have an iPhone but can barely turn on a computer? All they are using it for is updating their facebook status and sending pictures to instagram, hardly a data hog! Yet, again, those customers seem to think (at least the ones I've run into) that they are going to run out.
My sister in law for example, the other day she was turning her iPhone on, checking her messages, and turning it back off. I asked her why, assumed maybe her battery was dying. No, her friend told her iPhones use data all the time when they are on, and her friend, she claims "Never uses data" but got an overage charge. Well, I got her setup on myATT.com, and revealed that she had used 300mb of her 2GB plan, with 8 days left on her bill. So she left her phone on all the time after that.
AT&T is milking that up. I suppose the cynical part of me says 'good, more for me' as it keeps the network moving faster, but still. I honestly don't think AT&T has decided that if everyone uses less than 5GB a month, they'll be okay, they are just trying to scare people away from using data-hungry apps away from Wi-Fi.
-John
I've thought about giving up my unlimited data plan. Currently I have that on my iPhone and a 3GB plan for my iPad. I carry that with me if I want to use Facetime when I'm not home. I rather just use the phone but... I make due.
I've barely broken 2GB of data on my phone. And that was during the Summer when I was out more and streaming Pandora while driving around. LTE just came out in my area so that would have probably been a little higher if it was available then. As for iPad use, I got in when the 4 was released. I don't use it away from home much during the Winter. That might change when it's warm out. A 3GB might be enough or... I might go over. A 5GB plan might be fine. Unless there is that rare time that I'm on a road trip and streaming for 30-40 hours. Then I'll probably go over.
So, I don't know if it would be worth it/cheaper if I give up my unlimited plan.
I've barely broken 2GB of data on my phone. And that was during the Summer when I was out more and streaming Pandora while driving around. LTE just came out in my area so that would have probably been a little higher if it was available then. As for iPad use, I got in when the 4 was released. I don't use it away from home much during the Winter. That might change when it's warm out. A 3GB might be enough or... I might go over. A 5GB plan might be fine. Unless there is that rare time that I'm on a road trip and streaming for 30-40 hours. Then I'll probably go over.
So, I don't know if it would be worth it/cheaper if I give up my unlimited plan.
Look into the mobile share plans. They are a pretty good deal. Your iPad is only $10 on a mobile share plan, and it shares data with all of your devices. I have a 6GB plan across three devices (2 iPhones and an iPad) cheaper than a 'family' plan with data for just the two phones. You also get tethering included with that at no extra charge (which is the way it should be anyway). If you decide the leave the unlimited plan, I think it's the way to go.
I'm in the same boat as you. Fast Wi-Fi at home, work, and most places I go means I only end up using around 1GB average, with peaks around 2GB. My wife (the other iPhone) uses very little, and I don't do much with the iPad either so in the end my 6GB share plan is actually quite a bit for me, but the way they structure their pricing (the monthly per device gets cheaper when you buy more data) it ends up being like $5/month more to have 6GB over 4GB.
To all the 'loyal' customers...
There are a lot of posts on this thread from so-called 'loyal' customers who have been with AT&T for years and have had the unlimited data plan for years. Be honest with yourselves - you stayed with the unlimited data plan with AT&T because it was a good deal compared to your options. Now it's not such a good deal compared to the tiered plans, you're threatening/planning to move.
That's not loyalty...
There are a lot of posts on this thread from so-called 'loyal' customers who have been with AT&T for years and have had the unlimited data plan for years. Be honest with yourselves - you stayed with the unlimited data plan with AT&T because it was a good deal compared to your options. Now it's not such a good deal compared to the tiered plans, you're threatening/planning to move.
That's not loyalty...
That's foolish
Personally I find the whole thing pointless. Let's be clear the majority of us that have unlimited data plans are never going to get rid of them as long as ATT is going to let us have them. Also let's be clear that at the end of all things we don't cost the company much more.
In order to have an unlimited plan we have to have been with the company for quite a wile now and ATT's continuing discrimination (yes it is discrimination) is well, irritating. The point we don't get is like you said ATT can get rid of the unlimited plan if they like, but for what ever reason they haven't. Now if they got rid of it that would be one thing. However that's not what's happening here. We don't understand why a company would offer something to its longer and yes vary faithful customers but continue to jab us with a stick over something so petty. Not having FaceTime over cell isn't the end of the world and it's precisely because of that we find it so stupid.
Companies make money through customers. Happy customers preach to their friends about the amazing company they get their services from thus bringing more customers and therefor money to the company. That simple formula compounds the longer a customer has been with a company.
So for a company to play these frankly pointless games isn't harmful or the end of the world by any means. We just find them stupid and thus post angry messages on forums. How does this help? Thats right it doesn't. So yes it's pointless.
Personally I find the whole thing pointless. Let's be clear the majority of us that have unlimited data plans are never going to get rid of them as long as ATT is going to let us have them. Also let's be clear that at the end of all things we don't cost the company much more.
In order to have an unlimited plan we have to have been with the company for quite a wile now and ATT's continuing discrimination (yes it is discrimination) is well, irritating. The point we don't get is like you said ATT can get rid of the unlimited plan if they like, but for what ever reason they haven't. Now if they got rid of it that would be one thing. However that's not what's happening here. We don't understand why a company would offer something to its longer and yes vary faithful customers but continue to jab us with a stick over something so petty. Not having FaceTime over cell isn't the end of the world and it's precisely because of that we find it so stupid.
Companies make money through customers. Happy customers preach to their friends about the amazing company they get their services from thus bringing more customers and therefor money to the company. That simple formula compounds the longer a customer has been with a company.
So for a company to play these frankly pointless games isn't harmful or the end of the world by any means. We just find them stupid and thus post angry messages on forums. How does this help? Thats right it doesn't. So yes it's pointless.