I don't fail to understand that at all. That's not the same thing as saying that if something supports HSUPA and HSDPA, by definition it also is HSPA+, which is what was being said.
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AT&T Looking to Add '4G' Network Indicator to iPhone 4S Status Bar
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I don't fail to understand that at all. That's not the same thing as saying that if something supports HSUPA and HSDPA, by definition it also is HSPA+, which is what was being said.
Unfortunately, it's not my phone
It's some dude in Washington State (Link). I get 2Mbps on my AT&T phone (which seems to be what most people get on AT&T these days).Too bad iPhone 4S does not have HSPA+
It's HSDPA
Sure it does, well, you never see the max speed of a spec, maybe 2/3rds top in my experience. I've seen up to 4-5Mbps down in Baltimore on my iPhone 4, more commonly maybe 1-2 or 1-3 down. 1-2 up.
I expect the iPhone 4S to double those types of numbers, in most of the mid-Atlantic/Northeast, in the region AT&T calls their "4G" region, which as we've discussed really means HSPA+. If an area has HSPA+, it's probably going to deliver pretty decent HSDPA speeds, given real-world limitations.
Thing is, I don't recall anyone in this message board ever saying that "HSDPA + HSUPA = HSPA+" so I don't know where that started.
Sort of, look at the link another poster just gave, which is the "updated" (read: manipulated by $$$ and cellphone company influence) definition of 4G -- I believe they say yes to HSPA+ and WiMax now, but not faster implementations of HSDPA. So, if it's true the 4S is HSDPA and not HSPA+, which I think is 95% likely, then AT&T is STILL out of alignment with the ITU, which is the body that does define these things.
To be honest, I feel we should consider "genrations" of cellular technology an order of magnitude difference in speeds, which yes, actually would mean that HSPA+ and first-gen LTE would be 4G (but HSDPA usually would not, nor would first-gen WiMax in most cases). So if first-gen 3G was along the lines of 1Mbps in real-world conditions (HSPA, EV-DO) we would call 10Mbps 4G, 100Mbps 5G, etc. I actually do think that's fair.
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Somebody did say that, I think it was on page 2 of the thread.
HSPDA and HSPUA = LTE Speeds; NOT
HSPA+ can his LTE but the iPhone and ATT don't have HSPA+. The iPhone has HSPDA which supports up to 14.4Mbps down and HSPUA which supports 5.5Mbps up. This is not LTE. HSPA+; Evolved High Speed Packet Access supports up to 84Mbs down and up to 22Mbps up.
Current LTE from Verizon can support up to 100MBps down and up to 50Mbps up. (Theoretically). The current LTE from Verizon is 3GPP and LTE advanced which is really 4G will be built on top of existing LTE infrastructure. HSPA+ is also 3GPP and not really a 4G technology and up to now, tMobile with support of up to 42Mbps down has been the only carrier to brand it's HSPA+ at 4G. Even so they don't claim to do anything more than ~20Mbps on a burst.
Currently my Droid Bionic can do ~22Mbps down and 15Mbps up on a routine day. I have seen speeds as high as 37Mbps down and 21Mbps up on a good day.
ATT can call the iPhone 4s 4G if they want, but it ain't so.
HSPA+ can his LTE but the iPhone and ATT don't have HSPA+. The iPhone has HSPDA which supports up to 14.4Mbps down and HSPUA which supports 5.5Mbps up. This is not LTE. HSPA+; Evolved High Speed Packet Access supports up to 84Mbs down and up to 22Mbps up.
Current LTE from Verizon can support up to 100MBps down and up to 50Mbps up. (Theoretically). The current LTE from Verizon is 3GPP and LTE advanced which is really 4G will be built on top of existing LTE infrastructure. HSPA+ is also 3GPP and not really a 4G technology and up to now, tMobile with support of up to 42Mbps down has been the only carrier to brand it's HSPA+ at 4G. Even so they don't claim to do anything more than ~20Mbps on a burst.
Currently my Droid Bionic can do ~22Mbps down and 15Mbps up on a routine day. I have seen speeds as high as 37Mbps down and 21Mbps up on a good day.
ATT can call the iPhone 4s 4G if they want, but it ain't so.
Yeah... We'll have to wait for the teardown for sure. But I do remember the CDMA iPhone 4 teardown and it used this chip. iFixit and Qualcomm's data sheet both stated it's an HSPA+ chip. So that's why I think it's likely here.
The question was about the message board in general not this particular thread. Nobody indeed made such suggestions (HSDPA + HSUPA = HSPA+) until we learned what a POS iPhone 4S was. At this very moment this myth was born by some overzealous iPhone fans.
Heh, it supports at least release 6 since it has HSUPA. But then again, with its multiple antenna system (MIMO) it has to have release 7, doesn't it?
Aaaand... you're a boring troll. Go crawl back under your bridge, please. The grownups here are talking. Shouldn't you be doing your homework or something?
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I am pretty sure the diversity antenna system of the 4S is not the same as MIMO. MIMO can advance speed if memory serves, the system on the 4S is really for reliability only, from what I gather.
Nope, not MIMO
Correct. It's not.
We still don't know if the 4S is release 5 and release 7. Until we do, this entire argument is stupid. Can we drop it?
Now I've tried to find the answer for this for a few days.
What I've read--which may or may not be true--is that the ITU considers HSPA+ (the technology itself) as 4G. HSPA+ speeds "start" at 14.4Mbps (meaning, the theoretical max for HSPA+ when first deployed is 14.4 Mbps, but HSPA+ can go up to 84Mbps or whatever).
AT&T defines 4G as 14.4Mbps (as opposed to being HSPA+ capable) down speed plus advanced backhaul. It must meet both requirements to be called 4G on AT&T's network. AT&T's HSPA+ network, however, runs at a theoretical max of 21Mbps.
So if the iPhone has advanced backhaul, AT&T will consider it 4G, and it is certainly true that it runs at 4G speeds, but not more recent 4G speeds as newer phones are running at 21Mbps HSPA+.
What I've read--which may or may not be true--is that the ITU considers HSPA+ (the technology itself) as 4G. HSPA+ speeds "start" at 14.4Mbps (meaning, the theoretical max for HSPA+ when first deployed is 14.4 Mbps, but HSPA+ can go up to 84Mbps or whatever).
AT&T defines 4G as 14.4Mbps (as opposed to being HSPA+ capable) down speed plus advanced backhaul. It must meet both requirements to be called 4G on AT&T's network. AT&T's HSPA+ network, however, runs at a theoretical max of 21Mbps.
So if the iPhone has advanced backhaul, AT&T will consider it 4G, and it is certainly true that it runs at 4G speeds, but not more recent 4G speeds as newer phones are running at 21Mbps HSPA+.
Seems fair enough, considering that Verizon was sneakily advertising widespread 3G coverage maps that actually delivered about the same speed (and limitations) as AT&Ts 2G EDGE!
Then again, this might make people think the iPhone 4S shares the problems of other 4G phones: limited coverage at those speeds, and terrible battery life.
Theres no way to be clear, accurate, and non-confusing, unfortunately. Maybe invent a new status badge, like HS for high speed, whenever youre getting speeds in excess of what 3G used to be capable of with the iPhone 4.
Then again, this might make people think the iPhone 4S shares the problems of other 4G phones: limited coverage at those speeds, and terrible battery life.
Theres no way to be clear, accurate, and non-confusing, unfortunately. Maybe invent a new status badge, like HS for high speed, whenever youre getting speeds in excess of what 3G used to be capable of with the iPhone 4.
Good point. we will see for sure when the phone is in someone's hands and we have the teardown. At least for AT&T, if it's only 14.4 HSPA, there won't be any benefit on their network (IIRC, HSPA is still limited to 7.2 on AT&T's network), but if it is in fact the MDM6600 (likely) or some other dual mode chip that supports HSPA+, we should see some benefit due to the higher order modulation and other things that HSPA+ implements. AT&T's biggest problem is spectrum, not backhaul, so I think we will definitely see a benefit if this is the case. This whole thing could be a simple issue of how Apple never fully focuses on specs, but that's just my theory. There isn't much reason for them to limit it to HSPA only, seeing as how they'd lose a huge marketing advantage in one of their biggest markets (AT&T in the US).
The argument stems from the fact that the ITU did not originally define it as 14.4 Mbps (the lower end of HSPA+). I believe it was supposed to be 100 Mbps + fully IP based. T-Mobile and the other carriers muddied the waters when they started calling their tech 4G which didn't match the ITU definition. The ITU eventually backed down (because otherwise we'd be sitting at 3G way too long...bad for marketing.)
Do we even know for sure, simply based on a marketing presentation (the keynote)?
Legally they can't do that. They can't change a product's specs without re-charging you for it in some way. I highly doubt that will happen. It was done before to enable 802.11n on certain Macs.
Ahhh thank you man! I didn't realize you could type in a ZIP and get more detailed coverage. Perfect. And holy s*** I have "4G" in my area. Amazing.
LTE Advanced is a candidate technology for 4G. It is not a true 4G anything yet. 4G has not been finalised. This is why Apple is steering well clear of it.
Truth hurts, I know. To summarize:
iPhone 4S - HSDPA (14Mbps)
Samsung Galaxy SII - HSPA+ (21Mbps)
BTW, on their web site AT&T already claims that iPhone 4S is 4G
Well, how else would they explain to regular folks why iPhone 4S costs more than iPhone 4.
I don't think anyone even "needs" a smartphone, we seem to have done fine without them in the past.
It's all about want, and I can tell you I for sure want those speeds.